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March 12th, 2012 #61
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March 12th, 2012 #62
March 12th, 2012 #63
Updating with 10 gestures this time, 5 from yesterday. Somehow, today it was especially difficult for me to get things done. I still suck at balance. I kept wanting to give up.
ashess- Thanks, I'm glad I was able to progress a little further. But as to balance, my complaint (and yours) still holds.
Vritra- Can I thank you enough? I kept in mind your comment while working today. But 2-5 mins is still too quick for me. And also your talk about economy of line influenced me to give up my maze of lines. I don't know if it's very accurate, though.
March 12th, 2012 #64
oh man, I figured Id try the pixelovely thing sometime (I wasnt totally happy with the posemaniacs thing); opted for the 1 hour course. I spent all the 30sec ones fighting my interface.. as usual. so it's more like 10sec gestures. when they finally slowed down a bit I found a decent setup where I could see bothe the model on the screen and have enough space to draw. anyway, the last 2 felt great.
but I was gonna do this for a warm-up. and then do some othe stuff.. ah. maybe I got half an hour left. gonna try
@Aishani -no you're doing great. the sitting figures are real solid and the figures in motion.. well, they are in motion. they're not supposed to be balanced
@MartinC- where are those magnificent hands?all I can find are asses.. theygoodtoo ofc.
Last edited by ashess; March 12th, 2012 at 05:37 PM.
March 13th, 2012 #65
March 13th, 2012 #66Registered User
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I have been so busy these past days, so not to many gestures have been made.. I will try to get some done today though, hopefully..
ashess- thank you! yeah, these are all from photorefs - lovecastle.org to be more precise. And i will surely try adding a little something to my future heads!
Aishani- those are looking great, especially the middle one on the second pic! May i ask how much time you spent on each figure? (:
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March 14th, 2012 #67
@lm ah, abel. that actually makes more sense.
we're past the deadline of our long studyarent we..? oh drat.
I really should put some more work into mine. got this instead
pixelovely hal hour course. im liking doing this!
March 14th, 2012 #68
we're past the deadline of our long study arent we..?
And I chose mine on the 8th and totally neglected it so I will work on it as long I wish anyway ~ But I try to get more serious from now on... My mood isn't great this week.
I personally wish a Sunday deadline as usual But I said this before. Every deadline was Sunday this far I think.
I will bring some pencil stuff later.
March 14th, 2012 #69
Ok here are the rest of mine, got to the 50, but couldnt do the study, but least I got to 50 for my first week, most of these, except for the last 7 I think, are from my head.. Probably the weakest point is coming up with poses, but I guess with practice that would come too. Please crit, I need the help They all look very flat.
First time trying digital gestures too.. It's weird for some reason
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March 14th, 2012 #70
This round is, quite frankly, overwhelming. Got some drawing to do myself! Coming up next.
shiNIN; Those faces are getting better and better. Complicated angles, different styles, characteristic shapes... Be clear on whether you go for a stylized or realistic approach though, they seem to blend occasionally. You got an extreme painting for the optional study. Should work out though, your value work is getting better too.
Bellhop; Nice job on these! I like the mixed reference, teaches you different approaches and views. Add some of your own if you feel like it, and you've got a nice complete exercise. If you can help it (time limits can be constraining) try not to skip the feet. Good arms!
AdrianNagorski; It always strikes me about dancers and athletes how crazy their posing can be. Can be a tough exercise. Great to hear you could draw 12hr a day. Because I love to see those imagination sketches in between. Fun to see some Hogarth too. He puts a lot of emphasis on those muscles, which I find tough to work with. Keep the bone structuers they attach to in the back of your head.
Eternal Apprentice; Go for it! No signup or requirements. Just hop on when you feel like it.
kayness; Just wondering about the photoshop adjustments. I find that my scanner sometimes 'messes up', requiring adjustments. Is that the same with you? And I agree that's a fantastic painting. Values seem to be getting better after the digital transition. Nice negative space drawings, I haven't tried those yet myself. In the first gestures it appears as if you are drawing small sections at a time. Like you place one line, lift your pencil, then place another one, and so forth. You seem to get more organic (and better, too!) along the way.
darkops; I have very little experience with Hogarth but he seems fun (good, too). His figures tend to be extremely muscular though, so you might want to compare with other reference for good measure. Great environments, value work is important. The ones with the subtle contrasts seem strongest to me. Nice posemaniacs. Its interesting, you got some good anatomy work going on there but you tend to lose track of the proportions. Careful there!
Guardian G.I.; Love what you did with the soviet paintings! Very typical. You've got to realize though (and I don't always follow this advice myself) that you'll improve by doing these things you're bad at. Similarly, drawing 'obligatory' poses won't do you much good, because it lacks effort. That doesn't mean that these gestures should be a painful exercise. It does mean you've got to try and make it work for you. For example, use reference that inspires you or draw things you find interesting. Because it would be a shame if you lost your drive.
ashess; Thanks for the link, good one. Also spotted your C.o.W entry, good luck! Digital Pixelovely can be tricky. Knowing the shortcuts for whichever program you're using is helpful though. So you can create new layers quickly to start a new pose. Fun to see some gestures of your own. They seem very conscious and planned, with foreshortened action poses and all (in post#26). I personally find it hard to get organic gestures when I try too hard at getting action poses. It sometimes works for me to start out with a looser sketch than usual. Just a thought. Because I like yours. Challenging stuff!
Obacmar; Perhaps you meant to say 'anime' or 'manga' rather than 'hentai'. The latter refers to erotic work, haha. Lovely gestures. In fact, some of these are really standing out. The second image of post#23 has especially strong poses. You could say these gestures are messy or scribbly, but they are really organic and natural. Great work. Shame you lost your patience (I know the feeling) on those portraits. Some could use a more solid jaw!
MartinC; Absolutely love our optional study. Love the colours, great work there. Even with how sketchy it feels, everything has great form. I like how the background has some structure and texture in #47, don't wash it down too much! Good work on the hands, unfortunately I think the figures are a bit small. Looks as if a couple of them could use bigger heads proportionally. But as I said, hard to see.
Little-Maiden; Less hard lines and heavy contrasts in the face! Try smoothing transitions a bit. I forgot who, but someone once said: "tone=form, line=definition". It just struck me that Kayness has done the same fish gesture on page1. I love the in-depth facial feature studies. Sometimes it takes only a very slight value shift to define the form. Also great gestures this week!
zy.; Yea, that's good knowledge. What area do you mean with the 'little wings"? I too interpret the pelvis as a square, though technically it isn't. It helps with proportions though. Regardless, the Iliac crest is a landmark you should remember, as well as the point where the femur attaches to the pelvis.
Vritra; Welcome and great work! In fact, fantastic work. That's a lot of gestures. For 30sec gestures, these are very good. The risk of going auto-pilot is there, as you mentioned. You might want to do some longer poses in between, or some from imagination. Puts things in perspective, gets you a new view. Also allows you to go in-depth.Your earlier drawings (post#44) are more detailed, but less lively. Personally, I find that alternating approaches is helpful. Can be tough to find the right routine with the highest yield in terms of learning...
Also, that's great advise and a nice analogy. Though I like to alternate with some fun activities and challenges to put the studies to use and see what requires studying next.
Jaik; Hi and welcome! Wonderful work, the AC trailer is very recognizable! You raise a good point. Usually if you were to do longer poses, your initial sketch would be lighter. Then you have enough freedom to get more detailed anatomy in. With quick gestures like your 30sec pixelovely ones, you only get a few moments to define the overall shapes , movement and action. In a way, long and short studies can serve a different purpose. *edit*
You're already doing better with the longer poses there. Some advice for coming up with gestures: Try some really quick and loose scribbles as a warmup, to get some ideas. Posing yourself works too.
Aishani; Welcome, and please don't feel intimidated. The Spartan Camp focuses on improving, and there's no entry level. And you're doing good at that. Either you have a good eye, or you seem to know quite a bit about anatomy already. (careful with wrists and knees!) Good sense of form. Rather than gestures, these are quite elaborate and long studies with attention to detail. Gestures are more focused on the basic shapes, movement and action. So they serve a different purpose. Not that yours are bad, in fact longer studies are perfectly fine. But doing some gestures can help you in a different way. I personally find that a mixture of exercises works well. Great work!
consone; Hi there, great work! I hope you're not getting too much trouble with posts that are not appearing. Unfortunately, it can take a while for new members. Don't be discouraged, because this is a great website. Doing quick gestures can help you get more natural, fluent poses. Because you've got some great details going on. Shame the scans are a bit small! Also, no need to shy away from the faces. They require practice too, after all.
March 14th, 2012 #71
And my own stuff.
With the deadline next Friday, I don't think I'll make the optional. We'll see.
First 2 scans are posemaniacs warmup, then just a bunch of own gestures. Need more more focus.
March 14th, 2012 #72
Had a five day slumber, fell of the bus been chasing it ever since.
my optional thus far might not finish in time as well:
March 14th, 2012 #73
Obacmar; Perhaps you meant to say 'anime' or 'manga' rather than 'hentai'. The latter refers to erotic work, haha.
Jaik: You asked for crits, I give some.
#27: I think the left leg should be straight here. The torso is very, very block like, beginners tend to draw it like this but humans are different, much more shapely, get some reference to see. The back and the front should have a nice rhytm, they aren't symmetric at all.
#40: The right leg isn't clear at all, I don't know what might be your intention with it.
It would be good if you would have acquainted with flow and rhytm much, much earlier I had. Years passed and I was still struggled with figures, I was lazy and blocked, but still, I did practiced now and then. But when I tried to learn flowy figures, it got easier. The little parts and blocks and boxs we use can help with proportions but the figure ends up stiff more easily. But I'm not really the one who should talk about how to learn to draw gestures or figures But flow is very, very important.
AdrianNagorski: Your optional looks really nice this far if you ask me At least in general and the main figure. Not the little fairy heads.
Some elephants. Maybe I shouldn't try to put stuff here at all. If I just want to produce sketches, it's very easy to copy and not learning anything in the process. Maybe I'm the only such lame one but I can't memorize things just like drawing them if I can see the reference. Even if I put it away and draw it several times, it's no good. No wonder I draw so little.
I don't feel I improved lately. And I definitely can't draw anything except faces a tiny bit. I guess.
So I'll change my habits.
Last edited by shiNIN; March 15th, 2012 at 04:11 AM.
March 15th, 2012 #74
@Anthis- well I work on my confertible tablet mostly now, so I cant really use my keyboard when sketching (I close it to sketch); stuff like that is an annoyance too. but drawing on your screen is such an advantage I prefer it above my wacom. it's interesting you say you dont plan your poses. when I sit down to draw- actually sit down, doodling might be a bit different, I always start with a bone structure, then build around it. like this:
Im still curious how you do it. I gather that's not how at all.
Adrian- I dont know the piece, but the lighting is allready great.
shinIn- elephantes. cool your sounding down again. I dont really understand the problem. you want to copy from memory? I tried that with the sketch kids. it's hard I know
March 15th, 2012 #75
ashess: Talking into other's conversation again: Sometimes gestures just happen with me (flowy lines like to be free and lose and chose directions for the limbs ), they are more interesting than my planned, very boring ones but I'm a beginner at them so they look strange sometimes...
I'm not down, well I was a few days ago but I'm too busy with not giving up and the sun is shining too.
I think my block is over but my mind is still lazy and my memory is bad with drawing stuff, mostly anatomy. Too much information I can't explain with logic (there's a deep logic behind anatomy but I don't understand it all, it's so elaborated).
I'm usually not bad with copy but I don't learn anything that way it seems. My lazy brain shut off the parts it isn't needed for copying that much, memory has no role at all. I try to analyze and understand but it alone isn't enough. "drawing again from memory", it's a common method but even if I manage to do it, it just reveal I can't draw even from short term memory. Something like this. But I collected many pictures, books, tutorials to aid me and keep me entertained while drawing figure studies and I'm quite stubborn and sometimes I get serious.
Oh. Sorry, I carried away again.
I fixed the labeling of my elephants, of course the Indian ones have small ears, I just repositioned my sketches without thinking.
By the way, I drew the baby elephant being confused etc. sketch a few times to ensure I will remember anything. I even studied how elephants walk. Not like this
Brace you folks, here comes my traditionally ugly traditional bunch (I shot the pages when there wasn't enough light again).
March 15th, 2012 #76
50 completed! Well, to be fair, the last few were done in haste. And so many comments! I'm learning so much from them.
ashess- Thank you for reassuring me. Somehow the balance thing had seized my thoughts completely. And I'm really glad you like them.
consone- Thank you too. It's so nice to hear that some things are looking fine. I'm afraid I spend too much time on each, say, 20-25 mins approx. I've tried decreasing the time steadily, but till now it has not worked. I'm hoping to work more and bring it down.
Anthis- I'm more than honoured if you feel that they are somehow working out. As to the gestures part, I know I'm doing something different, but as this is working for me now, I'm sticking to it for this particular phase. I am definitely trying to work on gestures that capture the essence so to speak, and take much less time, and hope that I can strike a balance as Vritra and you have pointed out.
Oh, and as to the study, I'll try something tomorrow, but obviously, it will be a one-evening study, so not quite complete and not quite what was required. I'll try all the same.
March 15th, 2012 #77
So totally not. (past the deadline)
And I chose mine on the 8th and totally neglected it so I will work on it as long I wish anyway ~ But I try to get more serious from now on... My mood isn't great this week.
great. way-da shoot my excuses to quit on this thing outta the sky! hmm.. only have one more. I wanna finish my pow entry first and its LOTs a work.
I think the traditional work-photos are fine btw. ofc, mine are usually worse!
Aishani- yw, nice stuff again.
so spent all evening in pow stuff. ahh. this challenge stuff is way too much work for me, but I just cant help trying once I start, ya know? so sorry, no gestures, no study. i promise to finish the study latorz!
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March 16th, 2012 #78
shiNIN; You know that's not quite what I meant, I'm open-minded on the matter. I just think its easy to let stylization happen unconsciously even when you're actually aiming for a realistic approach.
ashess; aha, I see. Makes sense then. Interesting to see your progress, I often follow the same process actually. Eventually I want to be able to draw figures freely and without reference, so that's why I'll often practice without too much construction.
Aishani; Yea eventually, it's all trial and error, right? Try things out and see what works. Keep challenging yourself. Nice job on the last couple, some tough foreshortening there!
New round will be posted soon!
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March 16th, 2012 #79
Anthis: So it was the other way around. I don't know if it's sad, I didn't draw a real portrait in ages, after all. I need a lot of time if I wish to draw a realistic face. Or anything.
Well I guess I can't do anything else this week, I'm a bit worse like usual, I spend half an hour on a SKETCHY hand and it sucks epically. And it was even referenced. What the hell is wrong with me I wonder.
The optional seem pointless, [deleted part].
I can't draw. No matter the level, I just don't produce anything. I start to get tired of it.
March 16th, 2012 #80
So my one-evening study boils down to Wesburt and a couple of hours. Needless to say, the fine, elegant feel of his work is lost in mine.
ashess- Thanks a lot.
Anthis- Yes, I'm very much in the process of figuring things out. I'm glad that you liked them.
The first one belongs to Wesburt. The one that follows is mine.
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March 16th, 2012 #81
ashess, yeah, that was the best I could do in 30 seconds, sorry.
shiNIN, yeah, it can be pret-ty tiring. I'm usually very averse to doing these things myself, but somehow the participation and level of enthusiasm in here gave me that adrenaline rush to go for it. And it was well worth it. I feel like I learnt more on retrospection rather than when I was actually doing it, though.
MartinC, just go for it, man. It's less about actually finishing the gestures than trying to finish them/capture their essence.
Anthis, I find myself in agreement with everything you said. Alternating approach is very important. Also, I think pacing is just as important. You know, you find people practicing for 18 hours a day and they end up becoming rendering machines. It's always good to pace yourself, always take a step back and reassess your situation.
Aishani, the works are looking good. You've put in a lot of hard work in troubling times. I'm totally proud.
Here's a Phil Hale study. It's not a two-week long study, just a few hours on it. It's terrible, on the whole, but I'm not completely unhappy with it. Since this is my first time on Sparta, I thought I should at least (to a degree) finish the challenge. It was an educational and humbling experience, participating here. It's a wonderful endeavour, Spartan Camp.
March 16th, 2012 #82
Vritra: Yeah, Spartan Camp is very blubby recently One day I got excited too and said I would draw 50 arms that day or something like that. Maybe it was the other day but I did it and went to bed late, the last hours were tiring but I had to do it. I didn't learn enough from it I guess, I really should draw things from (my bad visual) memory.
Hi folks, I'm here spamming this topic again.
I'm better, sorry.
Some unrefined stuff (I don't concentrate on nice results, I want to learn something already):
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March 18th, 2012 #83