Book on Gesture
Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 50

Thread: Book on Gesture

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Jamaica
    Posts
    50
    Thanks
    27
    Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Book on Gesture

    Searched google but I am not finding anything and on the forums i get unrelated threads.

    I stopped using loomis's FDFAIW and honestly its just not going well with me right now.

    Now I am using Michael Hampton book and man its made a huge difference in how I see things. But are there any other book/s that solely concentrate on Gesture and Gesture drawing?
    With tons of examples and gives little nuggets of info on the side?

    ~ Hard work beats wasted talent.

    Doing a little soul searching ^^
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Azuerous For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    113
    Thanks
    92
    Thanked 54 Times in 42 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Anything by george bridgman, completely changed the way I view 3d objects.
    Hampton's book is fucking awesome, too. IMO, just go draw the entire thing first then come back.

    Also found this one pretty fascinating (It's rather exaggerated though)
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Force-Dynami...0561831&sr=8-1

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to xyphid For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    400
    Thanks
    113
    Thanked 122 Times in 85 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    You already have examples in your sketchbook you have copied from Loomis so you don't need another book.

    Just do plenty of copies of the Hampton Gesture drawings then get yourself off to a few figure drawing classes or maybe here http://www.posemaniacs.com/ or some other similar place.

    Gesture drawing = Glorified stickman or woman.

    Last edited by Charlie D; February 29th, 2012 at 07:57 PM.
    Learning to see

    "...the ideas are what matter most" Doug Chiang
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. #4
    Arshes Nei's Avatar
    Arshes Nei is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    Posts
    6,802
    Thanks
    2,278
    Thanked 4,259 Times in 2,074 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie D View Post
    You already have examples in your sketchbook you have copied from Loomis so you don't need another book.

    Just do plenty of copies of the Hampton Gesture drawings then get yourself off to a few figure drawing classes or maybe here http://www.posemaniacs.com/ or some other similar place.

    Gesture drawing = Glorified stickman or woman.
    ....

    Wut.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Arshes Nei For This Useful Post:


  8. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    2,364
    Thanks
    796
    Thanked 1,273 Times in 887 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    ....

    Wut.
    Nicolaides just rolled over in his grave. . .

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Kamber Parrk For This Useful Post:


  10. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    737
    Thanks
    477
    Thanked 497 Times in 270 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie D View Post
    You already have examples in your sketchbook you have copied from Loomis so you don't need another book.

    Just do plenty of copies of the Hampton Gesture drawings then get yourself off to a few figure drawing classes or maybe here http://www.posemaniacs.com/ or some other similar place.

    Gesture drawing = Glorified stickman or woman.
    Pose maniacs is...mediocre, especially for people who may be just beginning. Please stop recommending it. Don't rely on any site that uses posed 3d models; many of the poses are arbitrary. Photos of actual people can be a great supplement to drawing of living, right in front of you and breathing, people.

    If you think gesture drawings are only glorified stick-figures, you're missing the point. It isn't to draw a stick figure - it's to lay down what the person is doing in (usually) a minimalistic fashion, then build the figure on top of it.

    Interestingly enough, in animation 'gesture' refers to not just a lay-in, but the story/emotion/attitude/what is that person doing!? drawing. They do tend to be pretty darn quick, and many artists use a figurative shorthand. (They are often also exaggerated for appeal and clarity)

    to the OP:
    This might be along your lines of interest if you want to draw gestures in terms of story: http://www.amazon.com/Drawn-Life-Cla...0567745&sr=8-1

    (Keep in mind that Stanchfield's books are an organized collection of his class handouts put together after his death, so it doesn't quite read like a book.)

    Here's a link to a video review, which I think are great because they flip through the book: http://parkablogs.com/node/1310

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  11. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Alice Herring For This Useful Post:


  12. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    400
    Thanks
    113
    Thanked 122 Times in 85 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Maybe refined stick figure would have been a better term considering you are using C and S curves along with straight lines.

    Learning to see

    "...the ideas are what matter most" Doug Chiang
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  13. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Jamaica
    Posts
    50
    Thanks
    27
    Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by xyphid View Post
    Anything by george bridgman, completely changed the way I view 3d objects.
    Hampton's book is fucking awesome, too. IMO, just go draw the entire thing first then come back.

    Also found this one pretty fascinating (It's rather exaggerated though)
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Force-Dynami...0561831&sr=8-1
    Oh the Force book looks pretty good I will add that to the list
    I have no doubt that Loomis book is good its just not clicking with me like Hampton's book does.

    Another site says that Atlas of Human anatomy for the artist is a good book to complement Hamptons book so i will be getting that as well.

    I was looking at Master class in figure drawing but its bit expensive and looks advanced.

    Also looking at Harold speed dynamic wrinkles and drapery.
    I think these books will be a good guide for me right now ^^

    ~ Hard work beats wasted talent.

    Doing a little soul searching ^^
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  14. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    400
    Thanks
    113
    Thanked 122 Times in 85 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mmm, interestingly, the better half agreed these looked like glorified stick figures when asked.

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Learning to see

    "...the ideas are what matter most" Doug Chiang
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  15. #10
    Elwell's Avatar
    Elwell is offline Sticks Like Grim Death Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,666 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Charlie D, please stop giving people advice. Your future self will thank you.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  17. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,132
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 391 Times in 266 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk View Post
    Nicolaides just rolled over in his grave. . .
    Say it again and he is back to normal?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  18. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    2,364
    Thanks
    796
    Thanked 1,273 Times in 887 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by eezacque@xs4all.nl View Post
    Say it again and he is back to normal?
    It'll probably make the Baby Jeezus cry-- but, perhaps through his tears, he'll make a gesture drawing of N's next roll-- on cream colored paper, wearing an eyeshade. . .

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  19. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Western Massachusetts
    Posts
    104
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 23 Times in 16 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I've actually found Micheal Hampton's 'Figure Drawing: Design and Invention' to be the best book on gesture I've found. The simple diagrams explaining how to get dynamic relationships using line and form completely changed how I approached the figure. The later chapters are a bit iffy but up until the torso I found it very helpful as a beginner.

    Mind you, it's just a starting point, Loomis and Hogarth go far more into detail but this was the book that made the entry simple and cleared my confusion so that I could learn more.

    ETA I totally missed that you had already read this one,I admit I had to look up the author before posting and that's why XD I'm sorry I don't have any more constructive suggestions.

    Last edited by Stormslegacy; March 1st, 2012 at 07:39 PM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Stormslegacy For This Useful Post:


  21. #14
    Arshes Nei's Avatar
    Arshes Nei is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    Posts
    6,802
    Thanks
    2,278
    Thanked 4,259 Times in 2,074 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I heard drawing and painting were just glorified lines and colors.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  22. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,132
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 391 Times in 266 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    I heard drawing and painting were just glorified lines and colors.
    Graphite, charcoal, pigments and binder, sometimes just bits and bytes. Really just atoms and electric charges...

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  23. #16
    JeffX99's Avatar
    JeffX99 is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,896 Times in 2,544 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Actually, I don't have a problem with CharlieD's term "glorified/refined stick figures. BUT, then you have to define "glorified". If by glorified you mean "captures the essence of the pose or action" I don't see a problem with it. On the other hand if the implication is "fancy stick figure" then yeah, misses the point entirely. Just my devil's advocate two cents.

    Edit: Of course... "glorified stick figure" does leave out any of the incredible artists working in mass and volume that capture gesture such as Henry Yan.

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to JeffX99 For This Useful Post:


  25. #17
    Arshes Nei's Avatar
    Arshes Nei is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    Posts
    6,802
    Thanks
    2,278
    Thanked 4,259 Times in 2,074 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    The bigger problem is gesture doesn't just apply to humans or figures, but...well everything that you're drawing?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  26. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Arshes Nei For This Useful Post:


  27. #18
    JeffX99's Avatar
    JeffX99 is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,896 Times in 2,544 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    The bigger problem is gesture doesn't just apply to humans or figures, but...well everything that you're drawing?
    Mmmm...to some extent this is true...certainly animals as well...trees and flowing water/waves to a lesser extent. You have to have a pretty expansive notion of gesture though to apply to still lifes of inorganic subjects. Though it could be said that even tranportation design, weapons, etc. could contain "gesture" in some fashion. With those types of subjects though I would refer to it more as the thing's "core", "essence" or "feel".

    So gesture or essence here?: Or does it matter/same thing?
    Daniel Sprick - "Pencil Sharpener"
    Name:  sprick_pencil_sharpener_lg.jpg
Views: 278
Size:  51.0 KB
    But yeah, I was just kind of lightly poking fun at the notion of having to define "glorified stick figure".

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  28. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    2,364
    Thanks
    796
    Thanked 1,273 Times in 887 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    . . . . .

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  29. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Kamber Parrk For This Useful Post:


  30. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Western Massachusetts
    Posts
    104
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 23 Times in 16 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk View Post
    . . . . .
    Would such a gesture be useful? I just see the object captured quickly, but I doubt you can make a good looking piece of more rigid forms from that approach as it would look sloppy. I too thought that gesture was to help organize more organic forms in an appealing way?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  31. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    2,364
    Thanks
    796
    Thanked 1,273 Times in 887 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormslegacy View Post
    Would such a gesture be useful? I just see the object captured quickly, but I doubt you can make a good looking piece of more rigid forms from that approach as it would look sloppy. I too thought that gesture was to help organize more organic forms in an appealing way?
    . . . . .

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  32. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kamber Parrk For This Useful Post:


  33. #22
    Arshes Nei's Avatar
    Arshes Nei is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    Posts
    6,802
    Thanks
    2,278
    Thanked 4,259 Times in 2,074 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Well from my understanding, gesture is of course the start of the drawing. It's also what the item is doing.

    So...

    Is it a tree in the ground...?
    ..or
    Is it a tree firmly planted in the ground?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  34. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Arshes Nei For This Useful Post:


  35. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Western Massachusetts
    Posts
    104
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 23 Times in 16 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk View Post
    . . . . .
    I'm sorry, I just don't see how the gesture was useful in your demo there. With forms where geometry is extremely important, wouldn't you get the same, if not better, result by measuring and placing points, then drawing the forms instead?

    It may be that I just interpret what gesture means differently.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  36. #24
    Arshes Nei's Avatar
    Arshes Nei is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    Posts
    6,802
    Thanks
    2,278
    Thanked 4,259 Times in 2,074 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormslegacy View Post
    I'm sorry, I just don't see how the gesture was useful in your demo there. With forms where geometry is extremely important, wouldn't you get the same, if not better, result by measuring and placing points, then drawing the forms instead?

    It may be that I just interpret what gesture means differently.
    You're on a bus going along the freeway. You see something like a tower/sign, weird pieces of scrap metal that catches your attention and want to draw it for an idea you have later.

    Do you...

    1. Plot the points out trying to make careful geometric shapes?
    2. Get the gist/gesture of it so you can work out our idea of what you want to draw from that later?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  37. The Following User Says Thank You to Arshes Nei For This Useful Post:


  38. #25
    JeffX99's Avatar
    JeffX99 is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,896 Times in 2,544 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    Well from my understanding, gesture is of course the start of the drawing. It's also what the item is doing.

    So...

    Is it a tree in the ground...?
    ..or
    Is it a tree firmly planted in the ground?
    Sure...I've always thought of gesture as the essence of the thing...in that sense, which to me is pretty inclusive, I would say that the pencil sharpener does in fact have "gesture" to it. Usually though, it is used in context with things that move or have an organic quality, and most of the time in reference to human figure and somewhat with animals, so most often it refers to the esence of a pose.

    Kamber...use your words Bro! Not sure what you're trying to get across...that the pencil sharpener also has gesture?

    And sorry, didn't mean to open up a big debate, though I do think it is interesting to consider whether inanimate/inorganic things can have gesture.

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  39. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    2,364
    Thanks
    796
    Thanked 1,273 Times in 887 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormslegacy View Post
    I'm sorry, I just don't see how the gesture was useful in your demo there. With forms where geometry is extremely important, wouldn't you get the same, if not better, result by measuring and placing points, then drawing the forms instead?

    It may be that I just interpret what gesture means differently.
    How LONG does it take YOU in "measuring and placing points?"*

    I'm interpreting gesture as Nicolaides defined it-- given that HE is the jumping off point for EVERYONE's bastardization of the term.

    *This is important because the contemporary atelier types beat the hell outta the gesture and work, mainly, by brute force measuring as you are describing rather than responding intuitively to the subject matter.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  40. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kamber Parrk For This Useful Post:


  41. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    2,364
    Thanks
    796
    Thanked 1,273 Times in 887 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post

    ...that the pencil sharpener also has gesture?

    In a word: YES!

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  42. The Following User Says Thank You to Kamber Parrk For This Useful Post:


  43. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    2,337
    Thanks
    1,074
    Thanked 2,198 Times in 1,055 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I suppose it depends what you mean by "gesture"... At the beginning of most drawings, and especially if you're trying to compose a whole drawing and not just an object floating in space, then most people will do some kind of rough skeleton/gesture of sorts just to figure out where things go in the drawing, how big they are, approximate form, etc...

    I guess you could call that "gesture". Seems like the debate could devolve into petty semantics, really...

    Heck, you could say the whole picture has a "gesture" (i.e., the essence of the entire composition...)

    I know I often have something like a whole-picture-gesture when I'm thumbnailing something.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  44. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to QueenGwenevere For This Useful Post:


  45. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Western Massachusetts
    Posts
    104
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 23 Times in 16 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    You're on a bus going along the freeway. You see something like a tower/sign, weird pieces of scrap metal that catches your attention and want to draw it for an idea you have later.

    Do you...

    1. Plot the points out trying to make careful geometric shapes?
    2. Get the gist/gesture of it so you can work out our idea of what you want to draw from that later?
    But isn't that a little different? You'd be organizing an organic shape because the pile itself isn't a geometric shape, or the values due to lighting are, etc. I assume that's why it's interesting. If it's just a single rigid box, I hardly see how that's a gesture--I think that's more of a sketch.

    Granted, I don't think of sketching (even quick sketching) and gesture as the same thing.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  46. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    2,364
    Thanks
    796
    Thanked 1,273 Times in 887 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by QueenGwenevere View Post
    I suppose it depends what you mean by "gesture"... At the beginning of most drawings, and especially if you're trying to compose a whole drawing and not just an object floating in space, then most people will do some kind of rough skeleton/gesture of sorts just to figure out where things go in the drawing, how big they are, approximate form, etc...

    I guess you could call that "gesture". Seems like the debate could devolve into petty semantics, really...
    NO!

    Words mean things.

    Nicolaides is responsible for the manner in which everyone here is TRYING to use the word "gesture."

    Though, guess the art world really isn't into rigorous scholarship and textual accuracy. . .

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  47. The Following User Says Thank You to Kamber Parrk For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 2

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •