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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormslegacy View Post
    * * *

    Granted, I don't think of sketching (even quick sketching) and gesture as the same thing.
    Nicolaides would agree!

    But, according to him, it is through such "quick sketching" that people discover the gesture!

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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenGwenevere View Post
    I suppose it depends what you mean by "gesture"... At the beginning of most drawings, and especially if you're trying to compose a whole drawing and not just an object floating in space, then most people will do some kind of rough skeleton/gesture of sorts just to figure out where things go in the drawing, how big they are, approximate form, etc...

    I guess you could call that "gesture". Seems like the debate could devolve into petty semantics, really...

    Heck, you could say the whole picture has a "gesture" (i.e., the essence of the entire composition...)

    I know I often have something like a whole-picture-gesture when I'm thumbnailing something.
    Yes...like I said, you can have a pretty expansive definition of gesture and I think it is valid. Personally however, I limit the term for use with figure and animals...and occasionally water or trees. I use the term character or essence for inorganic subjects or things that are not in motion; ie, a skull for example...it is organic, has character but not really gesture in the more common/limited usage of the term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk View Post
    Nicolaides would agree!

    But, according to him, it is through such "quick sketching" that people discover the gesture!
    That I completely agree with =D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormslegacy View Post
    But isn't that a little different? You'd be organizing an organic shape because the pile itself isn't a geometric shape, or the values due to lighting are, etc. I assume that's why it's interesting. If it's just a single rigid box, I hardly see how that's a gesture--I think that's more of a sketch.

    Granted, I don't think of sketching (even quick sketching) and gesture as the same thing.
    You want to plot out and measure a pencil sharpener.

    Kamber is drawing what a pencil sharpener is doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    You want to plot out and measure a pencil sharpener.

    Kamber is drawing what a pencil sharpener is doing.
    But I don't get that from the gesture in question. I mean, when is see a gesture of a human or a tree I see the stretch of it reaching, or how the weight is distributed, or how one part is more solid than another. In the case of the pencil sharpener I just see roughly drawn shapes mapping out where the parts lie quickly. I don't see it *doing* anything. I just don't get how that approach would differ any more in the final result if we were both to do a detailed still-life of the pencil sharpener, and yet if I draw a figure without starting from a gesture I almost always end up with something static.

    I'm thinking this misunderstanding may lie in how I personally view the word gesture though, as discussed above. Maybe I need to revise my definition.

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    You can't see it sharpening a pencil?

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    Just a bent line?

    Or, (without the axes), is it "doing something?"

    The shape of the crank-- raw gesture
    The flare of the cutters-- same
    Soldidness of the block--" "
    Thrust of the triangular baseplate-- " "
    Perspective divergence, thing block is sitting on-- " "
    Sweep of flange connecting baseplate-- " "

    The pencil sharpener on a block is filled with "happenings."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    You can't see it sharpening a pencil?
    Not really. I expect to see it sitting in a balanced way on a block of wood, tightly holding the pencil, and loosely holding the handle with its rotational axis. These are the verbs I would try to show in a gesture...

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    Nice little gesture drawing demo Kamber Parrk.

    Last edited by Charlie D; March 2nd, 2012 at 07:57 AM.
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    People, this is very simple. The pencil sharpener has a gesture, it's just not particularly complicated or interesting, and it's of some debate whether it's worth taking time to actually put down. Depends on your motives.

    OP: Highly recommend Stenchfield. Would throw in Vilppu too.

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    From "Figure Drawing; the Structure, Anatomy, and Expressive Design of Human Form" by Nathan Goldstein:
    "Our kinetic sensibilities [are] our ability to identify, through our bodily senses, with the thrusts, pulsations, and rhythms that seem to animate the things around us. And everything we see suggests energy of some kind. The path of a bent arm or a curved line, the thrust of a church spire or a drawn wedge, and the undulation of a tree branch or a brushstroke all express actions we can sense. These inherent actions are an ever-present aspect of how we see our subjects, and must be taken into account when we draw. Artists, it seems, are very good at sensing such 'moving' actions in things that aren't really moving."

    "Three's so little room for error."--Elwell
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    Thanks for all the answers!

    I was looking at Vilppus video on gesture with Hampton's books and the main problem for me is that I cannot break down the complex forms into simpler ones. Like for instance the shoulder or how the arm fits into it so how can I really break something down into simpler forms if I dont understand what the complex form is like?

    Maybe my way of seeing is off , I dont know and its not because its hard and I want to brush it off.

    I am sure that its better to gradually go from simple>complex in some areas like seeing the human body and breaking it down but I feel I cant understand gesture because i have no knowledge of anatomy.


    Describing the exact problem is hard and I cant put it into words sure I just just draw ,draw ,draw but I am drawing and not understanding.

    ~ Hard work beats wasted talent.

    Doing a little soul searching ^^
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azuerous View Post

    Describing the exact problem is hard and I cant put it into words sure I just just draw ,draw ,draw but I am drawing and not understanding.
    Gesture isn't about anatomy. You just haven't drawn enough yet. Keep working at it, and keep these questions and searching in mind, but don't worry that you're not "getting it"...it takes a few years.

    Edit: Oh, and don't just "draw, draw, draw" from Loomis. Copying other's work will never lead to any real understanding. Draw things around you, draw yourself, draw friends, draw animals from life...etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    Gesture isn't about anatomy. You just haven't drawn enough yet. Keep working at it, and keep these questions and searching in mind, but don't worry that you're not "getting it"...it takes a few years.

    Edit: Oh, and don't just "draw, draw, draw" from Loomis. Copying other's work will never lead to any real understanding. Draw things around you, draw yourself, draw friends, draw animals from life...etc.
    I am not drawing from loomis's book anymore I paused updating for a bit and using both hampton and just included pecks book along with http://www.pixelovely.com/gesture/figuredrawing.php

    I know that gesture isnt about anatomy it is about capturing the attitude, action, gesture and manipulating the eye to portray the action rather than rely on anatomy but I dont know what I am drawing.

    I drew a couple gesture drawings of my girlfriend doing her morning stretches this morning and yes I am trying to capture the life of it using what i understand from vilppu and hampton but i didnt know what i was drawing.



    I guess I will just draw from life although I feel blind because of not knowing what I am drawing but I will take the advice but when the clarity will come I dont know

    ~ Hard work beats wasted talent.

    Doing a little soul searching ^^
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    I believe anthropomorphic art of inanimate objects are successful through use of gesture.

    I don't mean by just adding human traits like faces ex. Teapot and objects in Beauty and the Beast....

    But things like Luxo Jr. of Pixar http://www.pixar.com/shorts/ljr/

    Yes, not all objects make interesting gestures, but without our minds picking up on gestures of ordinary objects we might not put some human and creative spin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azuerous View Post
    But are there any other book/s that solely concentrate on Gesture and Gesture drawing?
    With tons of examples and gives little nuggets of info on the side?
    I'm haven't read the other books you're looking at, but Kamber Parrk mentioned Nicolaides several times, and I think that's a great answer to the original question: The Natural Way to Draw puts a lot of focus on gestures, and it's available as a free download <EDIT: I was wrong--legal downloads aren't available. However, the chapter on gestures is available on Google Books, supposedly with permission from the publisher>. The book doesn't have much in the way of examples, but those can be found here in the Sketchbook forum. However, it does have a lot of advice and wisdom from Nicolaides on the nature of gestures and the importance of them.

    Last edited by Cider; March 2nd, 2012 at 07:15 PM. Reason: Correct a mistake
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    I've a few books tagged with gesture drawing on my blog.

    http://parkablogs.com/category/tags/gesture-drawing

    For good examples of gesture drawings, i would suggest checking out blogs of animators. Because of the nature of their job, their gesture drawings are always quite good, in the sense that the character is posture is clear.

    E.g.

    http://mattjonezanimation.blogspot.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cider View Post
    The Natural Way to Draw puts a lot of focus on gestures, and it's available as a free download.
    Not legally it's not.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Parka81 View Post
    I've a few books tagged with gesture drawing on my blog.

    http://parkablogs.com/category/tags/gesture-drawing

    For good examples of gesture drawings, i would suggest checking out blogs of animators. Because of the nature of their job, their gesture drawings are always quite good, in the sense that the character is posture is clear.

    E.g.

    http://mattjonezanimation.blogspot.com/
    Hey Parka81...good point. I would like to add that Parka's blog is a fantastic resource for book reviews!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Not legally it's not.
    My bad--I didn't realize that. I'm borrowing a copy from the local library, but I saw it was on Google books as well. I guess that doesn't necessarily make it legal, though.

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