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    Bee girl

    Hello.

    Since Concept art is an fantastic place to get advice and improve as an artists I would like to ask for some feedback on a work in progress.
    It is still sketchy in some aspects (mainly hair, clothes and skintones and some vital details are missing). But I thought this would be a good place to stop to get advice before proceding.

    The title of the picture is "Bee girl", because my intention is to add a bunch of bees crawling on her skin and in her hair later in finished picture. Because the character is bee themed, and for a rpg this is pretty central.

    Another thing that I have no idea how to do is how to add freckles, and a lot of them. Anyone got any advice to offer?

    I'm using this picture as a reference: http://jayantib.deviantart.com/art/hood-la-la-36509129 And some additional picture as referece for the hood. But they are just general clock pictures of thick wool cloaks.


    My last serious portrait ended up like this: http://conceptart.org/forums/showpos...3&postcount=10

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    Don't be afraid of hard cast shadows. My portraits too a HUGE jump once I started studying how old masters would show their cast shadows. The idea of putting a hard shadow with little transition was a little scary to me, but it makes a huge difference in how we read an image. I have a photo of fabric over a face, it's not really a hood, but you should look at the contrast between shadow and light.

    The painting is Thalia, Muse of Comedy, but the French painter Nattier.

    http://www.insecula.com/PhotosNew/00...00102500_3.jpg

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    Mr. Boo has a great point, really all it takes sometimes is a hard cast shadow to make things pop.

    Check this drawing out by Ben Lo: http://benlo0.blogspot.com/2011/01/cheap-shot.html he puts it in terms that anyone can understand lol

    Dont feel like you have to render everything the same, take a look at any Rembrant and you'll know what Im talking about.

    Also feckles....create a brush in photoshop man, so easy. Make a couple with different intensities and experiment. But listen, you are an artist! Dont let someone else tell you how to do something, figure it out on your own, its way more satisfying and you could learn a few new things along the way.

    I hope this helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterBoo View Post
    Don't be afraid of hard cast shadows. My portraits too a HUGE jump once I started studying how old masters would show their cast shadows. The idea of putting a hard shadow with little transition was a little scary to me, but it makes a huge difference in how we read an image. I have a photo of fabric over a face, it's not really a hood, but you should look at the contrast between shadow and light.
    Thank you. Then I'll try that, and I think some of the other hood reference photos had some good examples for where the edge of the hard shadow might fall that can be helpful. I'll post the progress later.

    I have no intention of becoming a professional artist, I just aspire to become a really good amateur.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprogis7 View Post
    Mr. Boo has a great point, really all it takes sometimes is a hard cast shadow to make things pop.

    Check this drawing out by Ben Lo: http://benlo0.blogspot.com/2011/01/cheap-shot.html he puts it in terms that anyone can understand lol

    Dont feel like you have to render everything the same, take a look at any Rembrant and you'll know what Im talking about.

    Also feckles....create a brush in photoshop man, so easy. Make a couple with different intensities and experiment. But listen, you are an artist! Dont let someone else tell you how to do something, figure it out on your own, its way more satisfying and you could learn a few new things along the way.

    I hope this helps.
    Another suggestion to look more into making the cast shadow hard then. I better get starting with that.

    And looking at Rembrandt, and just try making a brush or just try pretty much anything with the freckles. Check! I'll try that. I guess freckles isn't the rocket science I fear it might be.

    Thank you. I be back when I got some progress in the freckles department too.

    I have no intention of becoming a professional artist, I just aspire to become a really good amateur.

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    I'm not completely happy with the freckles yet, but I tried to follow the advice, and I really like the result of the harder cast shadow so far.

    I'm keep working on it, and any more advice, tips or critique is very welcome.

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    Well, the main thing left to do is to tighten up the edges and define the forms more. Jawline should be sharper, nose and mouth look flat. Pay attention to your ref, especially to the subtle modelling on and around the nose. But I'm sure you'll get around to that. Other than that... The left eye (her right) seems to be slightly higher than the other - and it's looking up, while the other eye is looking straight ahead.

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    Towel, camera, light - take pictures!
    It's a good start, keep going!

    Oh eye's are spheres not almonds, don't forget the tear duct

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    Thank you both Benjaminba and Venger.

    I'll try to fix that. I'm trying to get a real feel of the hair at the moment, but once I done that I'll get to working on the things you mentioned.

    Eyes - Fix them
    Shape and forms- Work on it, make it clearer, mouth and nose especially
    Edges - Make them clearer, less soft.

    I'll try to do the the towel+light and camera combination, if someone in the house have the time to assist me. I'm not that skilled with the camera, I usually just point the camera at my face, clicks and hopes for the best. The best in this case is getting a picture of my whole head.

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    Hey w176, like the overall piece and to do apaintover on how i think the light should work, (found a reff and sort of made her look more angry than you had her, and i made her jaw line slightly wider and probably too old looking aswel). there should be more bounce light up into her eye socket and under the chin. also i made the cast shadow softer, and just tried to add some volume to the nose, lips and cheeks.

    hope it helps.

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    Hair is always a tricky thing to work with. Here's something I did earlier to help someone else out, though I'm not sure how much it would help in this case, since you do seem to have a good grasp of everything else.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeVlBaT8L0A

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    Oh! Even more advice, that is great! Thank you. But It might take a while before I gotten a chance to work on all the good advice you given me, and post the result. At least not until tomorrow. I haven't had a chance to get to the previous suggestions yet, but I'll still post an update of where I am at the moment. I just done some work on the cloak and hair.

    dog-faced: Thank you for the paintover. I think you completely right about the reflected light, and working on giving things more shape. I'll try it out and see if if I can get it right.

    kevinsano; Oh. I really like that method. It gives a really neat result. Thank you.

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    Do keep in mind that it's very easy to overdo it on the single strands, and gives it a rather fake whispy appearance. Right now it could use a few more solid chunks to give the hair a bit more volume. It also lost a bit of the light/dark contrast you had going earlier.

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    Don't forget to make the skin underneath her eyes a bit 3D.. the eye doesn't stop and the line of eyeliner begins, there is always a tiny "ledge" of pink in between. See for example http://static4.pixdaus.com/files/ite...5b13_large.jpg

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    So far it's coming along awesome. I dig the concept your going for the everything so far, just thought I would point out a few things. I might even be wrong on a few, not sure. but hes what I got. I noticed that the right side near the eye was a more than a good bit darker than the other. I noticed the tilt down in the fabric of the hoodie there, but could not imagine that it was making it that dark. So maybe lighten it up a bit as well as even out the eyeliner that should match the other side as well as around the upper cheekbone area. From the reflection that you now have on the nose it seems now the light is stronger. I'm not sure what type of material it is you were going for, but none the less i would suggest more that the light is coming from the top by lightening up the value in the top area of the hoodie just abit more, not to much or it will start to draw to much attention. Im guessing that there is zipper lining underneath the hair, keep that in mind as you continue to paint as it would be somewhat reflective to (again not to much as to take the eye away from the focal). Now I did a little research on this and I'm still not sure, although there should be some small amount of reflection in the eye, I wouldn't think it would come from the side since you light is directed from the top, or have that much of a strong reflection. Maybe bring it more towards the middle bottom of the eyeball to match the light source. Since initially it would be on top, the hoodie blocks the direct source of it and that bottom middle reflection would be more from bounced light "and very faint" from the hair,skin etc. Also the areas I pointed out in the hair on the picture would be areas of brighter light due to the source being from the top. If anyone would disagree, please let me know. As I am still learning myself and it would clarify for both me and w176. Hope this helps!-Brad

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    kevinsano: More shape, less stands! I'm working on that right now. Thanks.

    _Devilry_ : I put in some more work around the eye are And hope I'll have addressed this.

    Virulentus: Thank you for all of the pointers. And you completely right, (except for the zipper, which would been right if it hadn't been for a fantasy setting.) I think the reason of the faulty highlight in the eyes as well as that shadows was darker was darker on one side, was because one of the reference photos had thous elements, and that they accidentally carried over. Thank you.


    ---

    Okey. I put in couple of more hours of work and hope I have tried or begun to adress these issues.

    Worked on:
    - Eyes (Shape, light, reflected highlight, detail, shading)
    - Edges (Trying to make them more sharp)
    - Shapes (bring them out more)
    - Mouth and nose
    - Reflected light at the chin
    - I tried to lighten up the shadows around the eye that was darker.
    - Less standy hair
    - Reflected light in the eyes

    To do list:
    -Light and shadows of the cloak.
    - Hair should cast shadows.
    - BEEEEEEEES.
    - Hair - A lot of work left

    Hair is in sort of in between stage right now, and looks a bit wonky, but I'm working on it, and I think it might turn out alright.

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    Yes. This is a piece of ULGY photo shopping. It so ugly photoshopping, that not even it's mother would love it. It's really ugly. I'm very aware of that ugly fact.But before diving into the task of hand drawing a few dozens of individual bees, i photoshopped them, just to try to place them in an interesting manner, and figuring out how many bees I wanted.

    I wanted it to be many, in a "Oh my god, that is creepy"-way, but not so many that you can't focus on the face. I want to place them also to give the feeling that the bees are somewhat hidden by the cloak, and crawling out on her face and hair, but not so much on the cloaks or the surroundings.


    Have I found the magic number?
    Should there be more bees? Less bees?
    Is the size of the bees right?
    Is the placement right?
    Is there some bees I should give extra focus?
    Is there some bees that should be removed or be placed differently?
    Do you have some other advice to offer?

    I be grateful for any advice.(Still working on the hair, so it still looking a bit wonky.)

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    The bees all look like they're on the same plane, as if they're against a piece of glass in front of the girl. Part of that is they're all pretty much the same size, and none of them overlap each other, both of which are indications of depth.

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    Thank you. Then I'll see to that I get some size variation with dept, as well as couple of places where they are overlapping. I'll have them over/underlap with the hair as well.

    I have no intention of becoming a professional artist, I just aspire to become a really good amateur.

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    The nostrils and lips looked better before. Though they needed some more definition, there was subtlety in the value transitions and it read better as a 3D object with some imagination. Now it looks as if you've simply drawn over the features that gives the impression that you've drawn with a thick pencil over what was a painting.

    Take your time to truly examine the planes of the nostril and the surrounding cheek area. Which planes point upward towards the light source and which planes point downward away from it? How sharp are the edges between the various planes?

    Now that the lips have been emphasized with some black lines, it's now more apparent how they are too wide. In general, expressionless lips will roughly align with the centers of the pupils.

    You've hardened some of your shadow edges, but I'm afraid you've hardened the wrong ones. The shadows on the cheeks should be treated as a form shadow, while the one on the forehead is a cast shadow from the hood. Cast shadows have stronger edges than form shadows when dealing with rounded objects. (This of course is ignoring if the object were a cube, in which case the 'form shadow' would have a sharper edge). Right now, the sharpness of the cheek shadows make the face read as much more planar and angular than it should be.

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    Thank you Hexokinase. And I'm sort of happy to say that a mistake I never managed to do before. I always worked to soft, so hopefully that means that I'm learning. I'll go over it again and see where I went wrong.

    Last edited by w176; February 29th, 2012 at 02:56 AM.
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    I think the main problem you are having with the freckles is that in most people, the freckles tend to get much more condensed across the bridge of the nose and the cheek bones.



    If you add some flow to the clusters I think they will look more like freckles and less like splotchy dirt.

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    You might also want to add some more yellow and black elements to the scene. Hair streaks, the cape colors, etc.

    You might also want to place the bees in a way so some of them are interacting with the figure. Have that one at the front of the hood crawling on the brim rather than just flying in front of it.

    You also need a more uniform lighting setup. You kindof have a forward overhanging light... but the reflection in the eyes are from below. The bees themselves don't really interact with the same lights that are hitting her.

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  37. #24
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    Thanks. I'll redo the freckles, and try to give them some more focus and flow.

    The bees are just placed at the moment, just to see how I should spece them, and how many there should be. I planning to have them inteacdt in a meangful way with the figure, but I'm not quite there yet.

    More yellow and black, and go over the lightning. Check! Thanks.

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    I think I better put the picture away for a few hours, because at the moment I just feel homeblind and confused. But I tried to fix face again, making it less sharp, and make it convey more shape with just the light and shadows. And I think the freckles turned out better this time.

    I post both the nude version because I show the skin better, and the one with both hairs and freckles. The hair isn't finished yet in general. Just sort of sketching, trying to figure out how to do it. It don't cast any shadows either but I wanna figure out how i want the hair before I start working on how the hair cast shadows at the skin and clothes.

    ... And then... Then it finally time to for the bees. But I'm really pleased with my progress of what I learned so far. Than you all.

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    sorry couldnt stay too long so couldnt read or say much except for wow for the improvement so far, incredible! wahoo!

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    The freckles look much more believable. Well done.

    Now I think you need to address the shape and color of the lips, and sharpen the edge of the jaw a bit. The neck can stay just out of focus due to depth of field, but I think the jawline should be a bit sharper than it is now.

    Also, for the hair, this is a really good read.
    http://www.cgsociety.org/index.php/C...realistic_hair

    Keep at it, it is turning out really good.

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    the last two are definately the best

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    I feel that, for a character who will have bees crawling over her, she seems rather bored. I think that you can pump up the intensity of the image, especially with the excellent placement of the both the hood and the light source. I did a paint-over to show how by cooling down the shadows and making them darker, and by playing around with the eyes, you can give her a much more fiery stare. A character covered in bees is pretty creepy and disturbing (just think about Candyman), but it's important that even if you remove the bees, the character doesn't lose any of that unnerving quality.

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    Interesting paintover. I do feel the stare is a bit too intense. I guess we wait to see what w176 thinks about it.

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