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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post
    Personally I'd have more pride with my work, especially since tracing tends to generate pretty crappy and stiff looking art (the original image is a pretty good example on that).
    Can you monetize your pride? Is it worth the same or better than the page rates these trace artists get?


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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty View Post
    It's funny...because a few years ago simply copying another artist's POSE was considered bad form. Now we are full on tracing photos and calling it comic book art?
    You have a romanticized view of comics history. This is absolutely nothing new. For instance, http://www.recalledcomics.com/Doctor...15AmyGrant.php.
    For that matter, did you know Batman's very first appearance (the cover of DETECTIVE 27) was an Alex Raymond swipe?
    And finally, don't forget Wally Wood's motto, which he had framed and hanging on his studio wall: "Never draw anything you can copy, never copy anything you can trace, never trace anything you can cut out and paste up."
    (And Woody could draw you, me, and anybody else under the table.)

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  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koji Bryant View Post
    Can you monetize your pride? Is it worth the same or better than the page rates these trace artists get?
    Well, thankfully I have a job where I don't have to resort to tracing, so I can keep doing comics that I don't have to trace and keep practicing so I can hopefully keep drawing without tracing (though at least I own my own camera). I am lucky like that, though it's likely that their page rates give more money than I get.

    EDIT: Though for some reason it seems you take that I'm all-out-against tracing when even my first comment only pointed out that tracing is not legit if you don't use the photos legally.
    Last edited by TinyBird; February 25th, 2012 at 12:20 PM.
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  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conniekat8 View Post
    Yes, integrity typically has monetary value.
    Sure, whatever works for you.

    Chef Anthony Bourdain in his first book recounted a time in cooking school where he bested everyone in his class in a chicken soup making exam (or something like that.) Why he won? He freaking used chicken cubes for flavor while the losers sweated making their stock.

    He did drugs too but he's clean now (except for one show episode in Amsterdam). He's got kids and his world famous.

    Anyway...I recommend doing whatever works for you. And because others say no to one process of making art, it doesn't mean it's no for you too.

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  8. #20
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    I think it's pretty low rent, grabbing the very first image that comes up on an Images search of "scared girl." Cheezy. At least have enough pride to cover your freaking tracks a little.

    I've used every form of tracing known to man (in-house illustrator for an engineering company; it was totally expected that I would trace my reference as needed). I'm certainly not agin' it on principle, but that's just...sad.
    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).

  9. #21
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    but is it Art?
    In the future, everyone will have 15 minutes of privacy.

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  11. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidmonk3j View Post
    but is it Art?
    Busy pros only have to convince Marvel/DC/Image that it is to secure their next gig or contract.


    Process by Tony Harris, artist for Ex Machina

    Salvador Larroca (Iron man artist) caught in blatant tracing.

  12. #23
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    "At least have enough pride to cover your freaking tracks a little."

    This was exactly what you suggested re deleting the citation numbers when ripping text off Wikipedia in forum posts....

    Somehow you equate pride with being devious, whereas normal people dont actually mind others knowing theyre quoting wikipedia or (stock images) and arnt sad- sorry proud, enough to try to conceal that fact.

    This comic artist clearly just had to kick the work out the door and used google image search for ref, and whose "pride" was more tied up with completing the job on time and telling a story well. Youll be telling us Durer wasnt an artist because he used a camera obscura all the time next.
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  13. #24
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    I'm just going to leave this right here:
    http://fuck-no-greg-land.tumblr.com/

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  15. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koji Bryant View Post
    Busy pros only have to convince Marvel/DC/Image that it is to secure their next gig or contract.


    Process by Tony Harris, artist for Ex Machina

    Salvador Larroca (Iron man artist) caught in blatant tracing.
    Thats not traced, thats used as ref.
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  16. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by timpaatkins View Post
    Thats not traced, thats used as ref.
    LOL

    You have good eye. You should be a Marvel editor.

  17. #27
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    Wait... people still read Marvel comics?
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  19. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    "At least have enough pride to cover your freaking tracks a little."

    This was exactly what you suggested re deleting the citation numbers when ripping text off Wikipedia in forum posts....

    Somehow you equate pride with being devious, whereas normal people dont actually mind others knowing theyre quoting wikipedia or (stock images) and arnt sad- sorry proud, enough to try to conceal that fact.

    This comic artist clearly just had to kick the work out the door and used google image search for ref, and whose "pride" was more tied up with completing the job on time and telling a story well. Youll be telling us Durer wasnt an artist because he used a camera obscura all the time next.
    Honestly, I have no idea what your point is.

    Normal people steal without guilt?
    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).

  20. #29
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    I'm sorry, but I just see a lot of excuses in this thread for this.

    I get it now (in reading other forums, especially in non-artist forums where it is simply comic fans replying) that people actually do not really care. So I'm certainly not going to try to argue against something that people have decided is acceptable behavior, apparently.

    But if the writer stole lines of dialogue (in a non-homage manner) word for word and used them as his own, he'd be laughed out of town because that's plagiarism. The issue of tracing is cheesy as hell. As an artist myself, I think he should be able to do it himself if he's employed for being an artist. But the real issue is using someone else's photo to do all the work for you.

    And I do not buy it for one second that he got permission and paid the photographer. Just....come on. I realize we don't know for a fact, but would you do that? If you are already in the tracing mindset (meaning you probably trace every chance you can get if it will shave off a few minutes), the list of people you would have to contact and pay would be huge.

    You have a romanticized view of comics history.
    You are right, I do. I actually recall hearing that Neal Adams traced all of the backgrounds back in the day saying that (paraphrase) "I'm not paid to do anything other than tell a story, however I get there is my business". I guess my point was just that it seems the envelope keeps getting pushed. This is acceptable today, what will be acceptable tomorrow?

    Well, I don't find it acceptable, personally. I don't think you should "cover your tracks", per se...but at least inject some of your own artistic personality into it a little bit.

  21. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koji Bryant View Post
    Process by Tony Harris, artist for Ex Machina

    Salvador Larroca (Iron man artist) caught in blatant tracing.
    I could be wrong Koji, but that looks like a photoshoot of models set up by the artist to provide them with the necessary reference? If so, that's a significantly different thing than grabbing someone's photo of the net and tracing it.
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