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  1. #1
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    Salvador Larroca (Iron man artist) caught in blatant tracing.

    You know what...I am not the kind of person who is all about tracing/swiping witchhunts. And I'm not calling for one now.

    But I found this the other night myself and I still feel it needs to be shared.

    Salvador Larroca (Iron man artist) caught in blatant tracing.

    This isn't even 'swiping'. This is blatant tracing.
    I caught this because I have searched for "scared girl" myself to use as a reference before and I recognized this image when I saw it in the comic. Yes, I added my own personal feelings to this image. No, I do not think I am being overly dramatic.

    This person is employed by Marvel Comics for one of their best selling comic books and most recognizable characters. He's known for having a Tony Stark that looks exactly like Sawyer from Lost, but this is the first (that I have seen) where it is a blatant trace-job. It's really disgraceful, imo.

    I just think of how many people Marvel COULD be employing that don't trace AND can meet deadlines.

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  4. #2
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    Salvador Larroca (Iron man artist) caught in blatant tracing.

    sb most art copied to page 1
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  6. #3
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    Here's one of the Sawyer skeptics.
    http://joevince3.wordpress.com/


    And this guy suspects him of using Spain's Prime Minister.
    http://www.weeklycrisis.com/2010/06/...sborn-and.html

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    Salvador's Sawyer is mentioned in this discussion at 9:27. Their complaint about him is that it takes you out of the story. They make some other good points and ask some reasonable questions too. What should the consequences be if one is caught tracing? Does the copied artist/photographer care? Does too much photo-realism lead to static and rigid gestures?



    Last edited by manlybrian; February 25th, 2012 at 02:41 AM.
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    And then God said, "Let us make man in our likeness and our image. Let us make him ridiculously hard to draw so that poor artists everywhere will have to spend 10,000+ hours failing repeatedly before they can begin to capture the form and likeness onto a two-dimensional surface." And there was man. And it was good. And artists everywhere lost their minds.
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  9. #5
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    I definitely think it is shit. He's obviously not the first, but I think he's one of the most blatant.
    This was a case where I knew for a fact I could find the photo and prove it.

    It's funny...because a few years ago simply copying another artist's POSE was considered bad form. Now we are full on tracing photos and calling it comic book art?
    Marvel should be ashamed for putting someone like this on one of their leading titles. And the guy should just be ashamed period.

    For the record, I don't buy the "but he's got deadlines!" excuse. That's crap...do your job.

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  11. #6
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    LOL

    Dude, if you ever do sequential art (storyboards, comics) on a work for hire basis with a tight deadline and the art direction/house style is a realistic style...google tracing is totally a legit deadline crunching technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty View Post
    I just think of how many people Marvel COULD be employing that don't trace AND can meet deadlines.
    A lot of good artist won't work interiors for Marvel because tracing and using refs is beneath them, so no way they'll make deadlines for a monthly book.

    1 to 1 swiping (like copying another artist's work), yeah...I'd have a problem with that. But tracing for some panels I'd totally do it and I'm not ashamed to say it. Marvel editors and pros have been doing this forever 'cuz they acknowledge it's a valid technique. Hello, Greg Land.

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  13. #7
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    i understand that doing a comic must be pretty hardcore, especialy with time contraints etc, but that is a pretty bad case haha, he really has taken like 99% of the image haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koji Bryant View Post
    using refs is beneath them
    Well, fuck them.

    Using refs is NOT THE SAME AS TRACING.

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  16. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koji Bryant View Post
    google tracing is totally a legit deadline crunching technique.
    Except it's not legit if they don't own the photos they are tracing, something that generally happens when you take stuff from Google Image Search.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post
    Except it's not legit if they don't own the photos they are tracing, something that generally happens when you take stuff from Google Image Search.
    And how'd you know Larroca didn't contact and compensate the owner of the photo?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koji Bryant View Post
    Marvel editors and pros have been doing this forever 'cuz they acknowledge it's a valid technique. Hello, Greg Land.
    Marvel readers and collectors (some of 'em, anyway) acknowledge it's a sneaky technique.

    http://jimsmash.blogspot.com/search?q=greg+land

    ...which is only my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vermis View Post
    Marvel readers and collectors (some of 'em, anyway) acknowledge it's a sneaky technique.
    Marvel legal department obviously has lots of dough to take care of ref ownership issues.

    If they let Greg Land do it all this time why can't other regular Marvel artist use the same technique?

    On the other extreme Liefeld is still making comics with his wacky anatomy and getting paid for it whereas a lot of "artist's artist" out there are having a hard time getting back to doing regular monthlies or can't make a go with their creator owned projects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koji Bryant View Post
    And how'd you know Larroca didn't contact and compensate the owner of the photo?
    I'm not talking about Larroca, I'm talking about your blank statement that "Google tracing is totally legit". Especially when in the same post you talk about how tight deadlines the artists have in a deadline crunch, if they have to resort to tracing because of the deadlines, do you think they will always scourge the internet for the photographer (like for example, the girl image is from a Russian image host site that has contacts, but if they find a more random image that doesn't show the contact/photographer and is hosted in a completely unrelated site, they'd have to do some real digging), contact them, wait them to contact back, and potentially pay them for using their photo? That could easily take days, something not very suitable for tight deadlines unless you have prepared for that in advance (which is possible, but could also be used to just take your own photos).
    Not to mention, isn't Grag Land also known to copy and trace stuff from movies/celebrities, magazine covers etc?

    EDIT: Not to mention, even if they really do all the appropriate steps and get permissions of their Google images, it will still put a shadow of doubt over the artist if it's found out, because obviously we have very little ways of knowing if whether they went with the legal or illegal route. And I don't think artists are somehow blind to this, but it would be so easy to avoid by just using their own photos (both on the "omg they're tracing!" and the "did they just steal that photo?").

    Last edited by TinyBird; February 25th, 2012 at 10:27 AM.
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