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Thread: Gah Hand Cramp!

  1. #31
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    Hey thanks for all the advice guys sketchbook feels a lot less like a dead wasteland now.
    I tend to get the chicken scratch lines a lot more with gesture drawings as I tend to panic a bit especially with the 30 second ones.
    Havent looked at that link yet umbravita but I will next time im doing some gesture drawings so thanks.

    Couldnt do any more skull drawings today for some reason the site I use was playing up.

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  3. #32
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    Good lookin' movement studies/perspective studies.

    The cup on your second page is a bit.. lopsided.. Watch your proportions! (The wardrobe is crooked too, but relatively proportional looking so it just looks like you were drawing at an angle on the paper. The cup sides are totally different, though. XD)

    I know what you mean about panicking with the gestures.. I do the same thing. I can't draw fast like that - I totally stink at it. (It takes a few seconds to visually process what I'm looking at and then I'm like "OMFG - Running out of time! How do I do this?! AGH!" *scribbles something that resembles nothing even remotely close to human* (\.- Definitely not my strong point.)

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  5. #33
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    Yeah I wasnt really trying to concentrate on the cup or wardrobe that much I went round my mum's to watch Lost and was just sort of doodling while I was watching it and I was also trying to draw with my whole arm when doing the wardrobe so that and the fact I was drawing it from an angle is why its lopsided.
    Funny thing with the gestures is that a lot of the time on the 1 minute 2 minute ones I start to panic as well and get it done like 30 seconds before the timers ran out.

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    Do some more of those perspective studies with the blocks. You didn't really get it. It's cool to just copy other people's guides at first. Here's an example: http://www.explore-drawing-and-paint...rspective.html

    If you can keep doing those anatomy studies on a daily basis (set aside half an hour a day, preferably an hour at a certain time), that will get you a very long way. I assume you're working out of a book? If not, I recomend this one: http://www.amazon.com/Vilppu-Drawing.../dp/1892053039 He starts out with gesture studies, which is nice for the beginner because you're not so afraid of being inaccurate.

    Also let's see some drawings from imagination. Studies can be grueling, you need a break and also need to exercise your creativity just as much as your knowledge

    The road ahead is difficult, rewarding and exciting. You're putting yourself on the right track, keep at it.

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  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riley Stark View Post
    Good lookin' movement studies/perspective studies.

    The cup on your second page is a bit.. lopsided.. Watch your proportions! (The wardrobe is crooked too, but relatively proportional looking so it just looks like you were drawing at an angle on the paper. The cup sides are totally different, though. XD)
    It helps to use your pencil to determine measurements and angles; it's much easier to use a guide to figure out generally what it should look like. Hold up your pencil, lock your elbow, and stretch your arm out as much as you can. Then tilt your pencil (to measure angles) or use your thumb to "mark off" the size of the part you're drawing. Doing this forces you to notice if you're way off in sizing or angles.

    I know what you mean about panicking with the gestures.. I do the same thing. I can't draw fast like that - I totally stink at it. (It takes a few seconds to visually process what I'm looking at and then I'm like "OMFG - Running out of time! How do I do this?! AGH!" *scribbles something that resembles nothing even remotely close to human* (\.- Definitely not my strong point.)
    Me too. The more I panic, the more time I waste, too, which pretty much guarantees that my drawing will not end up as good as if I hadn't panicked.

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  9. #36
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    Oheari: Ive actually been trying to use that method a lot more lately I find it really hard to keep my arm steady though.

    Liffey:The anatomy book ive been working off is andrew loomis's figure drawing book I am going to start on either vilppu or bridgeman though after I finish this.

    Your also right about drawing from imagination thats something ive always shyed away from due to my skill level.
    The last imagination drawing I did was about 2 or 3 months back and whenever ive tried drawing from imagination I can never come up with barely any ideas I think ive been working to much on the fundamentals and not enough on my creativity I mean whats the point in knowing the fundamentals if you havent got anything intersting to draw.
    I think ill start trying to draw from imagination at least once a week.

    Oh and I forgot to mention this earlier but the reason the images are a bit squashed sometimes is that I have to mess around with the size and the brightness when I upload them.

    Okay Firstly ive been trying to get my gesture drawings looking right although im still not sure if im doing them right.
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    Quick drawing I did of one of my dogs before going to sleep.
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    heres the last drawing from my imagination I did about two or 3 months back aside from the dress I didnt really use any refrence for this.
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    Heres something from imagination I did yesterday I still need to add in a background though, unlike the red riding hood picture I did this heavily of refrence. I can never figure out where to put the shading when im doing pictures that are placed outside. I should proably draw stuff out in the sun more.
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    Im planning on doing a lot of drawing today so ill update again later.

    Last edited by triggerpigking; March 21st, 2012 at 04:13 PM.
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  10. #37
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    <--- I think this tutorial will help you with your gesture drawing.

    I would definitely keep suggesting that you work on your figure studies. Try to keep it loose, preferably using a loose grip on your pencil and just try and see the flow of the body over the details that are in the person.

    Just keep going with it, it will help a bunch the more you do it.

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  12. #38
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    Matt Kaminski: Thanks im usually very hard with my grip so ill try that next time.

    Despite drawing a lot I didnt actually get much done today probably because I went through about 4 pages of my sketchbook just trying to understand loomis boxes in perspective and I still think its wrong.
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    I did another still life out in the sun this time though so the lightings more natural.
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    I also did 2 perspective studies I think the first one turned out great but the second one..well for some reason ive drawn a giant cheese wedge.
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  13. #39
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    On getting things into perspective, something I find helps is to get a piece of string, a ruler, or something along those lines. Make a line, then after you think you've gotten it right, measure it. If it's wrong, fix it; if not, rejoice and move on. Be sure and do this with angles too, because getting angles wrong can REALLY mess you up.

    The point of the exercise is to try to get it right the first time, THEN correct, that way you aren't forced to use a measuring tool as a crutch. And it's also a good idea to try a study or two without a measuring tool every now and again until you feel like you've got the hang of it--that way you can really test how you're doing.

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  15. #40
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    That still life piece looks great. I like the shading on it a lot

    "Diligence is the mother of good fortune."
    - Miguel de Cervantes

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    Perspective can be a tricky thing.. It's something I can't comment on too much because it's not something that I've worked with a lot as of yet. I can add my two cents on your shading/lighting, however --

    You need to look closer at your values on things - you're could be describing your forms and lighting a little better if you utilize your values and think about how they would describe forms/light. The piece you did outside from life, for instance - you shaded in the cast shadows from the objects, which is good, but the objects themselves really have no shading on them at all. By not shading the forms themselves, we aren't getting the full idea of how the light is really affecting the forms or even what time of day/what the conditions you were drawing under were. (Judging by the length of the shadows, I would guess afternoon to almost evening or earlier in the day before noon, because the shadows would be fairly short around then if you were outside, I think. This would mean that each object should have a value other than stark white and they'd have some nice core shadows, as well as bounce light, which would help you to understand the forms better, too.) It can always be tricky doing pieces from life in natural sun because, as time passes, your lighting is always changing. (Especially when you have intricate forms like the little figurines you were doing that take time to draw out.) I'd suggest going back outside with the cylinder, the tall block, and the square it was sitting on and set those up again -- keep the forms simple so you can focus more on the lighting (instead of having deal with complex proportions like the figurines have, keep it easy for yourself) and concentrate on the values you see on the objects. Is one colored lighter than another? Where does the core shadow look like it falls? Can you see any bounce light on the edge of any of the objects? Try to see if you can pick out the nuances that the lighting is creating. If you can start figuring out how to do things like this, your stuff from imagination will look more convincing too. (Win/win.)

    Good work, keep it up! ^_^

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  19. #42
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    Riley Stark: Okay ill try focusing on the vaues more I didnt shade in the objects because I was getting a bit paranoid the light was going to change (this is england so a sunny day is very hard to come by) and the objects the dog and the horse were mostly black in the first place so it was hard to figure out the lighting. Your right though I should probably focus on simple shapes like squares and circles for the time being.

    Oheari: Just managed to find some string and ill try that thanks.

    Art Minded: Thanks I think I might stop using a mechanical pencil for shading for a while though you get a really good effect with them but its really hard to get shading right with mechanical pencils so I think I might use some regular pencils for a while.

    Really hoping ive finally got these right now. FUCK I FORGOT TO RESIZE IT!
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    Did some more life drawing outside but as you can see the lighting is messed up it moved while I was drawing.
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    More andrew Loomis.
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    And a few creatures I found online and decided to sketch
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    btw ive only just noticed but theres rubber bits on my scanner got rid of them now though

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    Wow, you seem very active in sketching, that's great. You definitely show improvement It's great to compare your skull studies at the beginning and from now
    To show some more improvement, I'd suggest you also try focusing on shading a bit more. I also like using mechanical pencil, but it's difficult to shade with it. Why don't you try a skull study with something wider, like a charcoal, for example, and on a bigger format. Try not to rely too much on the lines, but rather on the overall shapes that you need to capture with shading to make it look more realistic. In your sketches I often see that you mostly use completely white on the highlights and only one value on darker places. Try to use more values than just these. With charcoal or even normal pencil it should be easier than with mechanical one.
    Actually several months back I attended an art course and I drew a skull study in charcoal. I left almost the whole forehead part white and didn't care much about the really light shadows. Everytime the teacher came by, he made me draw the slightest differences in values, until he was satisfied. It definitely made a huge difference. The forehead suddenly looked rounder, etc. I'm not a great artist, but I'm still quite satisfied with how the shading came out: http://nachiii.deviantart.com/art/Skull-256661542

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  22. #44
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    I was told by my old art professor, way back when I was in college for the first time (long story there), that the ideal setup involves a combination fluorescent light and warm light lamp. The cheapest one I've seen available has been about US $80 though. Alternately you can just do what I do: put a blanket over the window, set up a light source, and draw.

    Another one of my friends also recommended something like this: http://www.digital-photography-schoo...ive-light-tent although the diffuse light wouldn't really help you learn light and shadow IMO. I've never tried it for that reason.


    I like the last saber-toothed cat really well.

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  24. #45
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    That life drawing looks MUCH better than your first one. I can definitely get a sense of what your conditions were now, as well as how the objects relate to one another. ^_^

    If you're having trouble getting everything down before the light changes, grab fewer objects. Rendering the crap out of one object and getting the values down, as well as picking out the light/shadow changes, will probably teach you more than grabbing multiple objects and feeling like you're under the gun to get them done. Working like that there's not always enough time to observe the subtleties, which is what'll help you with describing your forms.

    Watch your proportions when you're copying out your anatomy studies. The chest study has his pectorals (and everything below them) sitting a bit too high up, and your legs are looking a bit too wide in the area where the lower leg/ankle meet. Make sure you're measuring.

    That sabertooth tiger head looks pretty cool, btw. Nice job.

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  26. #46
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    Nachiii: Really nice skull drawing I tend to leave the highlights pure white as I find it really hard to use more values than just 3 or 4 but ill try and work on it.
    I havent used charcoal that much recently so ill definitely try to draw some skulls using them.
    Ohaeri: $80 is a bit too expensive for me although I live in the uk so it might be a bit cheaper. I might try putting a blanket over the window though but im going to have to do that soon i think the sunshines starting to leave england again
    Riley Stark: I might just try drawing a cup or the stand I was using next time.
    I might continue drawing the sabretooth cat it was fun to draw.

    Sorry for not having an update in a while ive been a bit busy and was away for 3 days withought a scanner as well.

    A few gestures I think these ones turned out really bad
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    and some skulls
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    Ive got more to upload but my scanners buggering up right now so ill do it later.

    Last edited by triggerpigking; April 1st, 2012 at 04:03 PM.
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  27. #47
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    Oh, nice!

    You're improving already.

    What I do notice though is that your gesture drawings are not to proper scale -- unless you are gesture drawing tons of children.
    When I see the ones you've done so far, be careful of the size of the head in correlation to the side of the body. Just remember that proper anatomy is paramount to good studies.
    On a different note: Great skulls! Those are looking good.
    It also looks like your gesture drawings are improving and maybe you're holding your pencil more loose from the looks of it.

    But anyway... keep up the good progress, I want to see more more more!

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  29. #48
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    Ditto to all of what Mat said.

    Definitely improving, but do watch your proportions on the gestures and try to keep them as close to accurate-size as you can get. (They don't have to be perfect, obviously, but it'll help you to develop your eye for capturing the human figure, which will apply when you go to do more detailed drawings.)

    Keep up the great work!

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  31. #49
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    And later turned into 2 days.

    Took your advice and tried getting better proportions with these
    I think they turned out well.
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    Im horrible at drawing backs.
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    An unfinished still life had to move before I could finish it.
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    Tried drawing a few figures withought using a ruler im trying to teach myself to measure withought using a ruler because I find it really hard to draw dynamic poses in proprotion especialy if im drawing them from imagination.
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    Vaas from far cry 3
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  32. #50
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    Looking a bit better, but it seems like you're consistently making your legs too short. Or your arms too long.. I can't decide which it is - could be a little of both. Either way, things are looking like there are some structural issues (in general). You're having trouble drawing things because you simply haven't studied them enough yet, that's all. (A little practice and you'll find things start coming easier, like backs. You can't draw the back correctly if you aren't sure how the muscles sit under that skin, can you? It'd be pretty hard to do. The same applies to the other parts of the body.)

    I think you need to break down and start really studying the figure more in-depth and it'll help correct your proportion problems. Gestures are great for warm ups, but they're not really going to help you correct your proportion issues - they simply don't contain enough information to be helpful in that regard. (They'll improve with the more that you learn about the figure, of course, but I don't think it's going to help you too much the other way around.) I'd recommend doing more from your Loomis stuff or grabbing some Bridgman. (Highly recommend the Bridgman stuff. He's been helping me with my proportions more than Loomis for some reason. Could just be personal preference - I was never huge into Loomis.) If you're copying out their drawings, you'll at least have something to compare against and see where you're going off, and it's just good practice for getting used to measuring with your eye alone.

    Everything in the figure is measurable against something else: the head is 5 eyes wide, the nipples on the chest sit about one head length down from the chin/shoulders area, the crotch falls about 4 head lengths down, elbows rest at the waist, etc. There are all sorts of landmarks you can use to help you gauge where things should be placed. It definitely takes practice, but you'll find it becoming easier and easier the more you do it. Start learning the measurements/landmarks for the proportions and you'll never need to use a ruler again. (One less thing to carry around is never a bad thing, right?)

    I think you should try just copying out a few pages and see how you do. (Then, if you're feeling saucy, see if you can do them again from your memory. Great way to see how much you retained from the study. ^_^ )

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  34. #51
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    Riley Stark: Im actually thinking I might start working on bridgeman for a while and come back to loomis later mainly because I think loomis book mainly seems to be more about how to use the figure with stuff like foreshortening and how to draw it in perspective rather than anatomy while I think bridgeman seems to focus more on anatomy from what ive seen anyway.
    Anyway im on to muscles and bones now so hopefully I might learn some things from it its only really 6 pages long so he does'nt go too in depth with it.

    Love the way the goomba in this turned out
    although I could never get the shape of the fucking lemon right
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    more manequins ill be honest ive drawn so many mannequins i get bored of drawing them really quickly now and I quickly go into rush mode because I just want to get them done.
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    A few muscle studys
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    and I tried drawing them from memory
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    And a few more skulls
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  35. #52
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    Yeah, that Goomba looks pretty cool. Definitely unexpected subject matter for a still life, which is always entertaining. (Especially to my inner geek. XD)

    I know how you feel about the mannequins; I get bored doing stuff like that, too. And you're definitely making your legs oddly proportioned. Either the knees are too low or you need to make your calf/tibia area longer. (Your upper leg should be about the same length as your lower leg, the way you've got it the upper leg is almost double the length of your lower leg. Stand in a mirror and measure the proportions on yourself and you'll see what I mean.)

    Definitely look up Bridgman - his stuff has been really helpful to me. (Though, I will admit that his text stuff can be a bit hard to follow with the way he words things sometimes. I used a Hogarth book to help translate things when I started having issues understanding. Hogarth's diagrams/wording tend to be very clear so it helped me understand what Bridgman was saying, at least enough that I could get more out of his drawings.)

    Keep up with the anatomy studies and you'll see improvement in no time. ^_^

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  37. #53
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    "FUCKING LEMONS !"

    LOL

    I've had times where I've thought that, or something very like it.

    If you want a break from drawing representative stuff, you might try these exercises: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...15&postcount=6

    I'm probably going to be doing them soon for shits n' giggles.

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  39. #54
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    Wow. That's a lot of work there. You're either enrolled in a class now or you have some firm self discipline.

    The figure sketches already look much better than on page 1.

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  41. #55
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    Sasha Devina: Nope still not been able to get in a class anywhere to be honest I don't think ill be able to the only ones my moms been able to find locally are on days im at college still keeping some hope though.
    and believe me I have little to no self disipline especially now that im playing skyrim again ill play for two hours and be like right after I fight this dragon ill go and draw (after killing dragon) well thats over with better go draw now and OH LOOK A CAVE!

    Oheari: Thanks for the link ive always enjoyed doing exercises like that you don't have to worry so much about getting everything right.

    Riley Stark: I think the problem with the legs might be to do with the feet.
    loomis says to take off half a head from the female models so ive always used the other half for the feet.
    Its probably that because I don't think im making the upper part of the leg too long, ill go back to his mannequins and have another look at them.

    Havent got much new to show ive been working on a few different things im hoping to finish of today.

    A few sketches and stuff I did while watching the beggining of the good the bad the ugly I wouldve done more but its a three hour film and I spent about an hour doing these alone so I probably would have been their forever that and I find it really uncomfortable to draw on my lap so they didnt turn out that great anyway.
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    and I also did some of those exercises.
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  42. #56
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    It's always fun to do studies from movie caps. (Man, I can't tell you how many I've done from Star Trek episodes/movies. Yep, I'm a geek like that. XD) They keep you motivated because they're a subject from something you enjoy, and it's something that you're familiar with so it feels easier to judge when you get things right or wrong. (Like, if I draw out Spock -- I know pretty well what he should look like, so if I get the likeness wrong, it's just that much more obvious, you know?) Pick movies you love and copy out the scenes/poses. They can be very helpful for learning composition, or dynamic poses, or even just give you fresh ideas for constructing figures in general.

    I think you should definitely look up Bridgman. He might click better for you than Loomis as far as proportions/figure stuff goes. Or, if he doesn't work for you, I even found Hogarth to be helpful. (He draws everything with kind of superhero-esque proportions, but his drawings are clear and helpful for learning forms/shapes of features. Also, for placement of muscles -- I find his drawings helpful for learning those, too, because they're so defined.)

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  44. #57
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    lol, I so understand you talking about skyrim. =) What's your char? Mine is a khajiit rogue.
    In spite of your gaming you seem to be consistent with your studies. Keep up the good work!

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  46. #58
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    Sasha Devina: Mines an imperial although i do think ill play a khajiit in my next playthrough, I usually like to sneak although I like to use a bit of everything.

    btw im not sure if you play on pc and use mods but if you do you might want to check this out http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=14513 it makes playing a khajiit a lot more immersive

    Riley Stark:I think I might try drawing from another movie soon its a lot of fun although it does ruins the pacing a bit when you keep stopping and starting but its great for drawing more natural poses.

    I think I should probably try bridgeman and then go back to loomis after learning anatomy hell loomis even does downright say in the book that its not got that much info on anatomy so ill come back to loomis later.

    Way to tired to talk about these so ill just leave them here
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  47. #59
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    Nice anatomy studies. (I especially like the last one.) The upper leg/lower leg ratio is looking better, too.

    Quick tip -- when you're shading you tend to shade in straight lines (in varying directions, but essentially straight marks). If you curve the pencil direction slightly and follow the rounded forms of what you're shading in, it'll make your drawings feel more 3D because the marks will describe your form better.

    Keep up the studies, you're doing great! ^_^

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  49. #60
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    Sorry for not having an update internets been down for a few days

    A quick still life I did the cast shadow was weird It was on a bit of a reflective surface so it was hard to make out.
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    I tried a bit of bridgeman ill think ill wait until I can afford to get an anatomy book to go with it like Oheari said because I could not understand what he was talking about one bit I dunno maybe im just stupid.
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    More andrew loomis anatomy drawings and a few from memory
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    A few drawings of my hands
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    YAY im nearing the finish line with those skulls thank christ ive been drawing them since I first started the sketchbook.
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