Does Anyone Else Feel This Way? - Page 6

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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Spot View Post
    Twaddle. This is reading like pretentious crap. When you start layering on subtexts that you presume the artist meant, you are so straying into the conceptual art arena where you have to read an essay before you can even begin to understand it. ... The more erudite the talk about art is, only makes it less accessible to the man in the street.
    Sorry, hon. It's not twaddle.

    And the whole point of what I am saying is not about "the erudite talk about art." My whole belief system revolves around works of art fending for themselves. The words I'm speaking here are in reference to that which goes unspoken in the actual artwork. The man in the street either feels it, or he doesn't. But all men are not created equal, obviously.

    At least Icarus tried!


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  3. #152
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    To sum it up: no, I don't feel this way.

    I would very much appreciate if the combattants in this flame war could schedule an appointment at a nice stretch of nothing, far from here, and to fight it out there, with weapons of their choice. And, no, I'm not volunteering as a referee, assistent or whatever. I caught a bad cold and am staying in for the rest of the weekend.

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  4. #153
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    Or you could, you know, stop reading the thread.

    I'm enjoying it.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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  6. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by eezacque@xs4all.nl View Post
    To sum it up: no, I don't feel this way.

    I would very much appreciate if the combattants in this flame war could schedule an appointment at a nice stretch of nothing, far from here, and to fight it out there, with weapons of their choice. And, no, I'm not volunteering as a referee, assistent or whatever. I caught a bad cold and am staying in for the rest of the weekend.
    We're just having fun. At my age I have to get it where and when I can.

    Kev I actually agree with that comment, but I wish you wouldn't go round the houses all the time.

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  7. #155
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    You know how I read a thread like this? (I bet I'm not alone, either). I look at the links in everybody's signature, and the poster with the best portfolio wins.

    If you don't have a link in your signature, I mentally replace your post with blah-blah-blah. If your link shows you to be a noob, I mentally replace your post with the gentle burbling noises my chickens make pecking around the garden.

    If two or more awesome artists argue with each other...well, that's just brain candy. I try to work out how what they believe shapes their work. I'm not all that interested in what they have to say about art, so much as how what they have to say about art shows in their art. If you know what I mean.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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  9. #156
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    I make gentle burbling noises while I paint. Hope that doesn't affect your opinion of me Stoat.

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  11. #157
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    Twaddle is a great word. Chris, I have liked Diebenkorn's work for quite awhile. In fact, oh crap here it goes, I like his Ocean Park series better than his earlier figurative work.

    Quote Originally Posted by blogmatix View Post
    Yes. The real question is whether it is good art. :-)
    Well we could argue whether it is art/not art or good art/bad art.

    Kev, I agree that bandwagon critics and artists watered down every honest attempt at discovery. I think I read that Pennel article I'll need to check.

    Hope I'm qualified to post here.

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  12. #158
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    I have to admit that I have an instinctive dislike of too much loud red in a painting. Probably more to do with personal taste than anything else, but any painting with vast amounts of rich reds just jars on my eye and I can't look for long even if I admire the artist, the composition or whatever.

    The psychology of colour is an interesting subject, however. Channel 4 did a documentary a few weeks ago on "What makes a masterpiece" and their research seemed to show that people were drawn to the colour blue.

    I don't think I have a "favourite" colour, but I've noticed lately that I use yellow a lot. Hmmm... psychology of colour?

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  13. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    I make gentle burbling noises while I paint. Hope that doesn't affect your opinion of me Stoat.
    I come whiffling through the tulgey wood.


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  14. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    I come whiffling through the tulgey wood.
    ... and I always blamed the beans...

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  15. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    I come whiffling through the tulgey wood.
    Yeah, well I sharpen my pencils with a "vorpal blade" that goes "snicker snack."

    [Though, rather reluctant to whip out the old vorpal blade in Starbucks since the cops blew away that Indian Woodcarver. . .]

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  17. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Spot View Post
    At my age I have to get it where and when I can.
    Phwoar! That's hot Blackie.

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  18. #163
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    Stoat: Please don't respond to this Kat Krap. She's picked up on something you said in good fun and as usual used it as an all purpose washing line to hang out her private hang-ups, yet again...
    And a good thread is clogged up with the pong of it.
    She won't see this because I'm on her ignore list.

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  20. #164
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    Issues much Kat?

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  21. #165
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    Conniekat you seriously need to get over your butthurt.
    You don't like them, they don't like you, end of story. Stop the baiting.
    They weren't even talking about you until you started trying to get them to respond to your posts.
    This was an interesting thread until you made it about yourself.
    (not that I don't enjoy the internet drama, but still...)

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  23. #166
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    Actually I was joking considering all of the posts and type, but that's OK another pro on your hit list.

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  24. #167
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    Although I consider Matisse failed, like Diebenkorn to achieve expression for the human subject through the reduced means of modernism, I am absolutely convinced by the achievement of Henry Moore.
    I believe this to be because he saw the figure as landscape.
    That is to say, he did not see the far hills as a sleeping woman, but saw the sleeping woman as the hills. The reclining woman realised as the hardening of the mecurial earth.

    I've a ton of books on this magnificent artist, so have nothing to hand on my hard drive. I'll Google around and give some examples of what I'm on about a little later.

    Last edited by Chris Bennett; February 26th, 2012 at 12:09 PM.
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  25. #168
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    I think I have a problem with the word modernist in this context, Chris. The entire Romantic movement was about how to make visual poetry of one's paintings. This research led directly to Van Gogh, just like it led to Degas, Carolus Duran, Leyendecker, Klimt, Gauguin, and Pyle.

    Many of the artists now associated with the word Modernism had simply abandoned that idea (or never fathomed it) for the easy pursuit of the pretend idea "significant form"... form that is meaningful because it is form. Which is the equivalent of the idea that any sounds you make with your mouth are as legitimate, or have the same amount of meaning, as the recitation of a Kipling poem.

    Diebenkorn's best work is truly poetic. He is not simply making graphic designs, like a Matisse, Kandinsky, Arp, Motherwell, Still, Kline, Frankenthaler, Noland, or Mondrian. You can find the origins of Diebenkorn's philosophy in Wordsworth or Coleridge.

    At least Icarus tried!


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  26. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bennett View Post
    Although I consider Matisse failed, like Diebenkorn to achieve expression for the human subject through the reduced means of modernism, I am absolutely convinced by the achievement of Henry Moore.
    I believe this to be because he saw the figure as landscape.
    That is to say, he did not see the far hills as a sleeping woman, but saw the sleeping woman as the hills. The reclining woman realised as the hardening of the mecurial earth.

    I've a ton of books on this magnificent artist, so have nothing to hand on my hard drive. I'll Google around and give some examples of what I'm on about a little later.
    I really dig Henry Moore's stuff. I had an old art teacher who studied with him briefly. He told a story about how his class (He went to the Ruskin) went to Moore's studio and Moore walked them around the grounds and would pick up various plants and roots and such and show the students how they could find the human form in everything.

    "Contrary to the belief of the layman, the essential of art is not to imitate nature, but under the guise of imitation to stir up excitement with pure plastic elements: measurements, directions, ornaments, lights, values, colors, substances, divided and organized according to the injunctions of natural laws. While so occupied, the artist never ceases to be subservient to nature, but instead of imitating the incidents in a paltry way, he imitates the laws."-Andre Lhote

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  28. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpacer View Post
    This lady is technically painted inaccurately in that she has about 6-9 extra vertebrae. Google "Ingres" if you don't know his work and check out just how technically incompetent he was.

    Extra points if you can figure out why he made it intentionally inaccurate.
    I was always more disturbed of the fusion of her legs by her butt. It's like the upper leg is so horribly foreshortened and comes out of nowhere

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  29. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    I think I have a problem with the word modernist in this context, Chris. The entire Romantic movement was about how to make visual poetry of one's paintings. This research led directly to Van Gogh, just like it led to Degas, Carolus Duran, Leyendecker, Klimt, Gauguin, and Pyle.
    By modernist I mean the trend towards reductive means that finally lead to fullblown abstraction. But it is not abstraction per se. The equivalent in architecture was the stripping of ornament and emphasis on function. The belief being in both cases that it was leading to a more direct touch with the essence.
    Trouble being that there comes a point where the baby is lost with the bath water.

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  31. #172
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    OK.
    All the following attachments are Henry Moores.
    I've included a couple of his landscape etchings and led them through a series of his sculptures to try and get over the idea that he saw the figure as landscape rather than the landscape as figure.

    I believe this is why he succeeded where Deibenkorn failed regarding the use of the human form in a reductive means (modernist) program. Unlike Deibenkorn he saw landscape as elemental. Whereas Diebenkorn saw it as etherial, trascendental.

    The human form, as I mentioned earlier, is too truculent as an idea; all too physical, all too near, all too familiar, to be used for the purpose of trascendental expression. And this is why Diebenkorn failed.
    The fact the human form feels so corporeal to the essence of experience meant that is recodification as landscape worked for Henry Moore, a sensibility that sought the elemental, and suited his purpose perfectly.
    By definition it was antithetical to Diebenkorn's trascendental yearning and Matisse's decorative one.

    Henry-Moore-desert-sandhills.jpg

    moor_0036gl.jpg

    image-work-moore_elephant_skull_-17738-450-450.jpg

    Reclining_Connected_Forms_-_Henry_Moore_-_1969-74.JPG

    henry-moore-tate-britain-001.jpg

    7CC6D00Z.jpg

    homepage3.jpg

    Henry_Moore-Nelson.jpg

    Henry-Moore-Reclining-Fig-002.jpg

    YSP_HenryMoore_jpg_760x760_q85.jpg

    henry-moore.jpg

    article-1266914562156-086A03E3000005DC-611713_636x300.jpg

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  33. #173
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    Great examples of Moore's work Chris. Abstraction and reduction with thought, design and integrity...the opposite of what I see in Matisse and the Fauves.

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  35. #174
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    And, there I was-- cobbling together a Wikipedia driven diatribe to show Kev just how great an artist Matisse was. . .

    awww, screw it!

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  36. #175
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    That was a phenomenal article, Kevin. It really put things in perspective. It just goes to show that there were talented artists who still studied and worked tremendously hard within the modernist movement, and the only reason people like Matisse became so successful was because of over-hype and marketing scams.

    So now we're taught this (work of Seurat):

    Does Anyone Else Feel This Way?

    Instead of this (work of Henri Martin):

    Does Anyone Else Feel This Way?

    Does Anyone Else Feel This Way?

    Does Anyone Else Feel This Way?

    AND this (work of Matisse):

    Does Anyone Else Feel This Way?

    Instead of this (work of Maurice Denis):

    Does Anyone Else Feel This Way?

    Does Anyone Else Feel This Way?

    And all because those artists (Seurat and Matisse) fit the art critics biased scheme of linear influence and fetch the highest prices at auctions.

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  38. #176
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    Ah, Jacob, I've gotta disagree with you about the Seurat and the Henri Martin!
    But I better make sure of what you are saying:
    Are you saying you consider the Martin better than the Seurat?

    EDIT: BTW, did Me-me the Kat clear up her own shit or did a kindly mod have to do the job? The garden smells lovely and fresh this morning!

    Last edited by Chris Bennett; February 27th, 2012 at 09:17 AM.
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  39. #177
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    Well. I think Seurats painting is pretty nice...

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  40. #178
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    I much prefer the Henry Martin paintings. And he was doing what Seurat was doing many years before him.

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  41. #179
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    Incidentally, in the article Pennell names "Paris De Charannes" as an example of a modern artist who studied the old stuff diligently and "creates masterpieces of his own". The name as typeset, I'm certain, is wrong and it was Puvis de Chavannes who was meant.

    At least Icarus tried!


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  42. #180
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    I always found Seurat too stiff, much preferred Signac.

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