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Thread: The Art of Freelancing

  1. #31
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    Ahh I cannot wait for my financial aid money to come in to buy this! I'm looking forward to it

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diarum View Post
    I don't have the money, so I am going to wait till someone puts it on a torrent site so I can get it for free.
    Nice one Diarum :/ i would understand if it was a corporation or company releasing this video, but a freelance artist? Im sure if can save the money for it then you can haha.

    To hell with circumstances; I create opportunities.
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  3. #33
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    This is great, thanks Noah. I'll be purchasing the full video soon.

    I'm going to forward it over to the teachers on my illustration course, so hopefully they will e-mail it around to the rest of the students.

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  4. #34
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    lol I was just messing with you Bradley, I wouldn't pirate it. But I still can't buy it

    The Penvirates:: Xeon_OND :: PermaN00b:: Kamber Parrk :: Cygear ::Diarum

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diarum View Post
    lol I was just messing with you Bradley, I wouldn't pirate it. But I still can't buy it
    Kitteh *twaps* Diarum up side the head

    [......Sorry... I had a momentary lapse into a momcat-mode.]

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  6. #36
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    Wow.......US$57.....I would still get it, but......

    maybe if you could lower this to US$40, it would better.
    How about US$45? Let's meet halfway, and maybe you could throw in some freebies while you're at it!

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND View Post
    Wow.......US$57.....I would still get it, but......

    maybe if you could lower this to US$40, it would better.
    How about US$45? Let's meet halfway, and maybe you could throw in some freebies while you're at it!
    It aint just the video though. He also promises to keep the resources-thingy up to date + add more stuff & info when he stumbles upon them. So you are kinda paying for a great source of information for the rest of Noah's internet life. That's how I interpreted it.

    And I'm sure he'll update it regurarly.

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  9. #38
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    Also it's five freaking hours. That's like attending a five hour class lecture. Except with bonus features and you get to keep it forever.

    My Sketchbook

    And then God said, "Let us make man in our likeness and our image. Let us make him ridiculously hard to draw so that poor artists everywhere will have to spend 10,000+ hours failing repeatedly before they can begin to capture the form and likeness onto a two-dimensional surface." And there was man. And it was good. And artists everywhere lost their minds.
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  11. #39
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    Just listened to half of it so far. It's fantastic. For me, a gallery/art fair artist, he has already given me some ideas about how to transition myself from gallery work to illustration work.

    It's well worth the price. Haven't had a chance to go through the resources, yet.... but, gotta get some painting time in today before I can get to that bit.

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    Excellent video. You are right, they don't tell us exactly how we should be freelancing in the real world. Thanks for posting this.

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  14. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND View Post
    Wow.......US$57.....I would still get it, but......

    maybe if you could lower this to US$40, it would better.
    How about US$45? Let's meet halfway, and maybe you could throw in some freebies while you're at it!
    It's $60 because he has art school bills to pay. Even though he would make more money and help more people if he lower the cost, but whatever.

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  16. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diarum View Post
    It's $60 because he has art school bills to pay. Even though he would make more money and help more people if he lower the cost, but whatever.
    Only Noah can tell us why he chose to price it at 57$. Each of us as individuals then decide whether or not we can a: afford it, b: believe the exchange of money is worth the information.

    Having listened to the audio file in it's entirely, I believe that it is worth it.* It's not any super secret information that's impossible to learn on your own, but it is nice to have it compiled in one spot. As for helping people by lowering the cost - why not attend his livestreams? Those are, after all, free. You could also post more work here and get feedback from professionals - which is also, free. (None of whom are under any obligation to help any of us, but they do, and it's pretty darn awesome.)

    Of course, the cheapest thing you can do to get better is to just draw more.

    Alice.
    *My field is not concept art or illustration, but rather animation - yet much of the information is still relevant.

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  18. #43
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    Crap....I just looked at Noah's portfolio for the first time in so many years here and I'm awe-struck.

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    I haven't heard the entire thing either, but 5 hours of lecture material, plus the support materials he makes available exclusively, really are a bargain. Compare it to almost any class you've ever taken at an art school. More practical information (and on a subject art schools tend to not cover well if at all) and at probably a tenth the price.

    As for how he came up with $57, I heard when he sold his soul to the Devil to gain environment painting skills, he read the fine print of his contract where it said "Sell your lectures for Fifty Seven, that's your road back to Heaven." The Devil has vowed he'll still get Noah's soul one day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Wilson View Post
    As for how he came up with $57, I heard when he sold his soul to the Devil to gain environment painting skills, he read the fine print of his contract where it said "Sell your lectures for Fifty Seven, that's your road back to Heaven." The Devil has vowed he'll still get Noah's soul one day.


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    Burl: Sweet, thanks! I'd really be interested to hear what various instructors think of the material. Love to get this thing in schools somehow.

    EelisK: You got it. I could've done it for free but I knew I could devote more time and energy towards future content if I charged for it. Thanks for understanding.

    manlybrian: Exactly. It's a little over $10/hour. When I was starting out I would've killed to buy something like this. But maybe that's just me.

    Doug Hoppes: Fantastic, thanks! I was actually hoping to do a segment just for people looking to transition into the freelance world (from any other profession/field), but I had to cut it for the sake of time. Maybe sometime in the future. Glad you got something out of it all the same!

    Peipei: Thanks so much. Really appreciate hearing things like this.

    Diarum: I can assure you two things about my pricing: 1. It was not a thoughtless decision and 2. I didn't do it because I'm a greedy, money-grubbing corporate pig. If you don't think it's worth the price, don't buy it. If you do, then buy it. If you're unsure, then buy it. I've got a money back guarantee thing for a reason.

    rabbit run: Thanks. So very true.

    J Wilson: Stupid Devil is always trying to steal my darn soul.

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  23. #47
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    It is absolutely worth it. Way more than worth it. People at my art school pay over $2000 for a 4 month professional practices class that has you put together a bigass business plan and make some stationary. At best, it's missing most of the useful information that Noah's put together here. At worst, it feeds you useless, outdated junk. Think $60 is overpriced for 5 hours of solid, up-to-date knowledge of freelancing? Get real.

    Ahem... so, you should buy this. It's really quite good.

    And Noah's such a dreamy corporate pig .

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  25. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Wilson View Post
    I haven't heard the entire thing either, but 5 hours of lecture material, plus the support materials he makes available exclusively, really are a bargain. Compare it to almost any class you've ever taken at an art school. More practical information (and on a subject art schools tend to not cover well if at all) and at probably a tenth the price.

    As for how he came up with $57, I heard when he sold his soul to the Devil to gain environment painting skills, he read the fine print of his contract where it said "Sell your lectures for Fifty Seven, that's your road back to Heaven." The Devil has vowed he'll still get Noah's soul one day.
    You know, I asked him on twitter about the price because such a bizarre number offended my delicate bookkeeping sensibilities. Received an answer saying "his gut" told him to do it.

    Sounds like proof of the devil theory to me!

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  27. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Bradley View Post
    Diarum: I can assure you two things about my pricing: 1. It was not a thoughtless decision and 2. I didn't do it because I'm a greedy, money-grubbing corporate pig. If you don't think it's worth the price, don't buy it. If you do, then buy it. If you're unsure, then buy it. I've got a money back guarantee thing for a reason.
    I kinda find it funny that you say that, because all of the information you are giving is common sense, and free online. It seems like you are being nice and giving people info they want, but are you really? Having people pay $60 for stuff they could find for free. I'm not saying your a corporate pig, idk why you would even mention it. Do I think you really care about giving people information? No, I think you want the money because you aren't getting enough from freelance to pay your school bills, and you want the most amount of money the fastest. Why do I say that, because you could price it for $5/6/7/8/9/10 and make the same amount of money that you would for $60 and help a lot more people. I'm not saying it's not worth money, I'm sure it's a great resource, but is it worth $60? I'd say no because 1. all the information can be found for free 2. You've been Freelancing with any success for like 5 minutes, and can't offer multiply perspectives on different Industries. 3. And you aren't famous enough to have your name validate the price of $60. I'm not hating, I just want to know the truth about your price, if you need the money just say, don't beat around the bush.

    And for people who feel the need to defend Noah for whatever god awful reason, don't, I am not talking to you.

    this is lame but it's funny, and maybe a degree of truth lol


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  28. #50
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    Diarum:
    Maybe you don't pay for the information that's out there for free anyway - you pay for the time investment, the time you safe because Noah did the work for you. You get everything in one place, without researching for days, hoping to get the facts right.

    And well, time is money. The less time spent on research, the more time for drawing/practicing/working/whatever. It's the same with many other things as well, be it video tutorials, anatomy books or anything else - you could get most of those information by reading the forums, searching google for images of muscles, etc, but this way will definitely cost you more time.

    Last edited by Lyraina; February 7th, 2012 at 12:16 PM. Reason: grammar
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  30. #51
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    Well, I'm not going to defend Noah (he's quite capable of doing that himself), but I did want to comment on the notion of "everything is out there and it's all common sense) BTW: Yes.. I bought the video and I think that it's worth the price.

    Yes, the information is everywhere on the internet. Yes, you can go out and grab almost all of it... if you had the time AND knew what you were looking for AND knew where to look. In reality, the cost of a product is not just the product. It's the time that it takes to create the product. It's the time that it takes to weed out myths versus reality. It's the organization of the product to get to the essential points. I think that Noah covered it in his videos.

    Commenting that all of the information is common sense is not really a valid comment. What one person thinks is common sense, other's don't. Something as simple as branding. There are a lot of artists who do lots of different work in different mediums and different topics. Noah talks about branding with a unique vision, etc. For me, this is common sense. However, I JUST recently learned that bit of information for myself. If it was truly common sense, then everybody would brand. In reality, everybody doesn't. That's what makes it harder to for certain artist to be known for a certain design. He makes a great point that, if you are branded and known for something, the Art Director will immediately think of you when the topic comes up. This is a great point. Being a great artist is not nearly as great as being a great artist who draws dragons really really lifelike. Any art director who wants a lifelike dragon would immediately think of that artist before thinking of any of the other great artist they know.

    When people want help, they expect it to be relatively free (or a minimal price. In my opinion, paying $5 is considered free... it's less than some cups of coffee in different parts of the world).

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  32. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diarum View Post
    I kinda find it funny that you say that, because all of the information you are giving is common sense, and free online. It seems like you are being nice and giving people info they want, but are you really? Having people pay $60 for stuff they could find for free. I'm not saying your a corporate pig, idk why you would even mention it. Do I think you really care about giving people information? No, I think you want the money because you aren't getting enough from freelance to pay your school bills, and you want the most amount of money the fastest. Why do I say that, because you could price it for $5/6/7/8/9/10 and make the same amount of money that you would for $60 and help a lot more people. I'm not saying it's not worth money, I'm sure it's a great resource, but is it worth $60? I'd say no because 1. all the information can be found for free 2. You've been Freelancing with any success for like 5 minutes, and can't offer multiply perspectives on different Industries. 3. And you aren't famous enough to have your name validate the price of $60. I'm not hating, I just want to know the truth about your price, if you need the money just say, don't beat around the bush.

    And for people who feel the need to defend Noah for whatever god awful reason, don't, I am not talking to you.

    this is lame but it's funny, and maybe a degree of truth lol
    On the price:

    In the interest of full disclosure for this response I'm lazy as hell and, more importantly, busy as hell. Sure, all the information is available for free, and, in your words "common sense." How long would it take though to learn all this information and how to use it most effectively? Let's say 50 hours. Sure, I could spend 50 hours to learn all this by myself, but I don't have 50 hours. That would cut into what little free time I have for myself and art. I'd rather spend $10/hour of material (or about $1 per hour I otherwise would have wasted) to have someone explain it to me in a more efficient and concise manner that better fits into my schedule.

    So that's how I justify the price tag. Then again, I also like to pay people a fair amount for things, like the humble indie bundle packages.

    EDIT: On the subject of "...not being famous enough...": I love Gurney's work, but if he put out a series on freelancing...would it really apply to someone just starting out in the field? No.

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  34. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Murphy View Post
    On the price:

    In the interest of full disclosure for this response I'm lazy as hell and, more importantly, busy as hell. Sure, all the information is available for free, and, in your words "common sense." How long would it take though to learn all this information and how to use it most effectively? Let's say 50 hours. Sure, I could spend 50 hours to learn all this by myself, but I don't have 50 hours. That would cut into what little free time I have for myself and art. I'd rather spend $10/hour of material (or about $1 per hour I otherwise would have wasted) to have someone explain it to me in a more efficient and concise manner that better fits into my schedule.

    So that's how I justify the price tag. Then again, I also like to pay people a fair amount for things, like the humble indie bundle packages.

    EDIT: On the subject of "...not being famous enough...": I love Gurney's work, but if he put out a series on freelancing...would it really apply to someone just starting out in the field? No.
    Noah even mentions that last point in the introduction. Him being a newcomer in the freelancer scene and such.

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  35. #54
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    Lol I love how you are all saying it worth the money blah blah, time is money blah blah. Funny thing is, none of you are ready, and won't be for a good enough for while to even begin to work freelance. You know there are livestreams that you can listen to WHILE drawing that you can learn all this information. I will use Crimson Dagger's Livestreams for example, they talk about this stuff all the time, plus your get a perspective from someone who is more progressed in their freelance career and has work in more industries then Noah has. All I am saying is you can listen and do other things, while still drawing or w/e you are doing. I am sure most people aren't THAT strapped for time that they can't take time to look stuff up for themselves. Unless you are literally busy 24/7, you have time, if you have time to draw you have time to look this stuff up. How is $5 considered free? It's $5, you didn't have before, it didn't cost him anything to produce the video, that is all money in the bank. Not only are you getting the money you need, you are also helping a ton of people. And if you spent 50 hours drawing and listening to a free livestream where people tell you what you should do. It costs you nothing, and you did 50 hours of drawing which means your better then you were before, so that would be a win/win.

    Not sure what James Gurney has to do with this but ok...And if he wanted it to apply to someone just starting out he could make it apply...

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    Okay... so, first of all... "None of you are ready..." Really? How do you know? I sell my paintings in galleries, art fairs, and I have commission sales. I have my paintings and prints in several stores and I am working towards selling prints/paintings in more venues for this year. I'm looking at other venues for selling my artwork and trying to figure out various methods for having additional income stream. Noah's DVD's have given me some ideas on where to go with my work and how to tweak things for his particular industry.

    In addition, yes... I do listen to other livestreams WHILE I'm drawing and painting. That doesn't discount this one just because I paid money for it.

    In your opinion, everybody should be doing everything for free because that way they help everybody. ... and yes... time is money. You only have a finite amount of time everyday. Take away a regular 9 - 5 job (plus the commute time), time for making dinner/spending it with family, time for paying bills, doing chores, going to the gym, time for sleeping... there's really not a whole lot of time left for working on your art. Now, factor in time that you are already using to create (in my case) paintings for shows, galleries, clients... yes, that's not a whole lot of time left over. So, yes... I don't search a whole lot on the internet. I have this site, facebook (to see what other artists are up to) and my own personal blog sites that I read... so, anything that can save me time is welcome.

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    And let's face is, 57 dollars isn't much. You can save that by choosing not to spend your evening at bar on that day. Such price for such solid (and evergrowing) piece of information that loads of freelancers had to learn by tedious trial and error is completely worth it.

    Same applies to your notion about beginners. It's extremly useful to know how this stuff works early on so your transistion from school (?) into the business world could be as smooth as possible. Not to mention some aspiring artists even forget this side of the thing and schools often have nothing up-to-date to offer.

    And lastly, freelancer work is very flexible subject and it's principles change from era to era. Somebody who has already established him/herself as a popular artist and has no need for the first steps anymore has loads less to tell about the current situation than somebody who has just began.

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  40. #57
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    I'm sorry, Diarum, for whatever I have apparently done to offend you. Clearly you take issue with my charging for this lecture, and you're more than welcome to do that. You're welcome to discredit my career and successes and even attempt to undermine my desire to help others. Go ahead. But please do not insult other artists in this thread. It's rude and unprofessional at best.

    I feel no need to defend myself or the price I charged for it. All of the people who have sent me messages assuring me how much they loved the lecture and thought it was worth every dime leave me certain that I'm not doing this solely for the money, as you seem to be convinced. And no, my freelancing income is more than adequate--thanks for your concern, though.

    To everyone else: thank you, thank you, thank you. I can't thank you enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diarum View Post
    Lol I love how you are all saying it worth the money blah blah, time is money blah blah. Funny thing is, none of you are ready, and won't be for a good enough for while to even begin to work freelance.
    Nice Ad Hominem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diarum View Post
    It's $5, you didn't have before, it didn't cost him anything to produce the video, that is all money in the bank.
    Marginal costs and opportunity costs. Specifically Noah's time and bandwidth.

    I've said my piece.

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  43. #59
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    Noah, just want to say thank you for taking the time to compile all of the "free" information all of us are too lazy to weed through into a thoughtful, relevant, and extremely useful resource. You certainly are filling a gap that modern art education is failing at. I've been a graphic designer for 10 years, and a creative director for 2. I also, own my own design business on the side. I can remember my "business" classes in college, they were inadequate at best. This lecture should be a standard part of curriculum in art school (both design, and illustration), or at least an elective. Personally, I would rather pay $57 for this, than $400 per credit hour, for some of the design classes I took.

    To everyone else: This is someone (with legitimate credibility I might add) sharing real world knowledge. You would do well to listen and learn.

    Minimal art went nowhere. - Sol LeWitt

    DA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Murphy View Post
    Nice Ad Hominem.

    Marginal costs and opportunity costs. Specifically Noah's time and bandwidth.
    Dangit Tim, you beat me to it! Just to chime in - Diarum, I actually do work professionally and have had the opportunity to work freelance. I'm also one of those individuals that Doug Hoppes pointed out - i.e., it may be 'common' sense, but I certainly had no idea! Hard to look something up on your own if it isn't even on the radar.

    Edit: Diarum - I'll also have to look up Crimson Dagger's Livestreams. Hadn't heard of it - so thanks!

    Alice.

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