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    photography

    Why tere is no photography section on te forum? Don't you think photography is art?

    I'm complaining because i haven't found any forum about photography as an art, just god damn pictures of sunsets and over processed portraits everywhere.

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    well you see, conceptart is a concept art site...

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    And wasn't there the Photography Mob site (it's in the forum listing after all)? Apparently it's suspended now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellbike View Post
    Don't you think photography is art?
    No I don't, I think its craft.

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    OmenSpirits is offline Commercial-Illustrator in-training, NOT an artist. Level 13 Gladiator: Retiarius
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    nnnnooooooottttttt aaaaaaaggggggaaaaaiiiiiinnnnnnnn! someone find that thread link.

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmenSpirits View Post
    nnnnooooooottttttt aaaaaaaggggggaaaaaiiiiiinnnnnnnn! someone find that thread link.
    Before everybody gets all upset and tries to get me to drink the kool-aid of popular belief. Its my opinion, I don't care what other people think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post
    And wasn't there the Photography Mob site (it's in the forum listing after all)? Apparently it's suspended now.
    It was full of spam and most of the mods didn't have permission to kill them. The archive is still alive and some members are still posting.


    I didn't think it was possible to be called an artist when you have nothing to say. It's like being a writer who publishes individual words as books and expects to be praised for it.
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    I also demand a section for the culinary arts!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vay View Post
    I also demand a section for the culinary arts!

    well there's little more connection between painting and photography since these both are visual arts.

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    Damn...dpaint beat me to it...verbatim. It is craft. Yes, the product is visual, yes it is creative, but the product does not involve hand skills, nor interpretation. 100 cameras, set the same and pointed at the same subject will produce 100 identical images.

    And yeah, just MHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellbike View Post
    well there's little more connection between painting and photography since these both are visual arts.
    What if I like to play and make sculptures with my food

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellbike View Post
    well there's little more connection between painting and photography since these both are visual arts.
    Hey man, high-quality food deserves a high-quality visual presentation too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellbike View Post
    ...I'm complaining because i haven't found any forum about photography as an art, just god damn pictures of sunsets and over processed portraits everywhere.
    Luminous Landscape has a "But is it Art?" discussion section. The answer is "yes," by the way.

    A couple others I like:
    The Photo Forum
    Photography Board

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbclemons View Post
    Luminous Landscape has a "But is it Art?" discussion section. The answer is "yes," by the way.
    Care to support that? Not just your opinion then? Just curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    Damn...dpaint beat me to it...verbatim. It is craft. Yes, the product is visual, yes it is creative, but the product does not involve hand skills, nor interpretation. 100 cameras, set the same and pointed at the same subject will produce 100 identical images.

    And yeah, just MHO.
    Forget trying to get 100 identical images with 100 cameras. Give 100 people the exact same negative and let them loose in a darkroom. I guarantee they won't come out with the 100 identical images.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbclemons View Post
    Luminous Landscape has a "But is it Art?" discussion section. The answer is "yes," by the way.
    I found http://www.luminous-landscape.com/fo...?topic=59403.0 interesting. See the links posted.


    I didn't think it was possible to be called an artist when you have nothing to say. It's like being a writer who publishes individual words as books and expects to be praised for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinc View Post
    Forget trying to get 100 identical images with 100 cameras. Give 100 people the exact same negative and let them loose in a darkroom. I guarantee they won't come out with the 100 identical images.
    Yeah, like 99% of photographers even know what a darkroom is let alone how to use one.

    Last edited by dpaint; January 26th, 2012 at 04:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    Care to support that?...
    Nope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by erinc View Post
    Forget trying to get 100 identical images with 100 cameras. Give 100 people the exact same negative and let them loose in a darkroom. I guarantee they won't come out with the 100 identical images.
    OK, so you've shifted my point...because my point is true/reality. But, taking your point, I agree with that....although it is still a very limited amount of freedom or interpretation allowed to the photographer, and really one more in line with craft again. It has to do more with chemicals, timing exposures and technical process than it does hand skills and the unique expression of mark-making.

    So forget 100 cameras...take two photographers - same cameras, same settings, same subject = same image. Two artists - same equipment, same media, same subject = very different expressions. There are other differences of course, the main one being time. It takes time to draw, paint, analyze, interpret...this is different than a 60th of a second.

    Maybe that's setting up a straw man to make my point...in reality you don't get two photographers setting things up identically...I realize this, and I'm not trying to diminish photogrphy in any way, I just think it falls under a different heading than art...or at least is a unique art different than what people generally call "art".

    That's just how I see it. Maybe it puts too fine a point on the "is it art" question...IDK? Just my opinion and where I make a distinction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    It has to do more with chemicals, timing exposures and technical process than it does hand skills and the unique expression of mark-making.
    Actually, knowing what chemicals to use to produce an effect is very skilled. You can't just splash the stuff about and hope.

    I used to do the accounts of an internationally known advertising photographer and while I was there doing my stuff, the concept of the picture came through by fax (no internet in those days). It was crude and drawn like a child. He took it, got the props made to his specifications, lit the stuff and a month later it was on a load of bill boards. He got paid about 40K a photo plus expenses. The time and care he would take for every shot was unbelievable. He was hired because he could make a vision reality.


    I didn't think it was possible to be called an artist when you have nothing to say. It's like being a writer who publishes individual words as books and expects to be praised for it.
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    I'm going to go with Dpaints koolaid comment. This isn't something you can usually convince someone of. People hold different views.


    To me it holds much of the same elements, composition, lighting, color, perspective etc etc. It's just not as free in the sense you can freely edit your environment. You can't move a tree from here and place it over here without changing your angle. You don't as much 'create' as capture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Spot View Post
    Actually, knowing what chemicals to use to produce an effect is very skilled. You can't just splash the stuff about and hope.
    Sure...I've already said it is creative, it may take knowledge, skill, etc...lots of things do that we don't call art though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    Damn...dpaint beat me to it...verbatim. It is craft. Yes, the product is visual, yes it is creative, but the product does not involve hand skills, nor interpretation. 100 cameras, set the same and pointed at the same subject will produce 100 identical images.

    And yeah, just MHO.
    Ah, but what if the scene isn't even there until you arrange it? I think that assuming that every photographer just shows up somewhere and takes fancy snapshots of whatever's there is doing the field a disservice.

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    I think photography is art, some think it's not art...oh well. The world goes on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    Yeah, like 99% of photographers even know what a darkroom is let alone how to use one.
    You're probably right with this, but it's a bit of a shame really.

    Developing and printing your own film is such an interesting thing to learn about..all that splashing in chemical baths in darkened rooms, little timer gadgets, contact sheets, shouting obscenity laden threats at people when you hear the door handle turning..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vay View Post
    I also demand a section for the culinary arts!
    and fiber arts!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    It has to do more with chemicals, timing exposures and technical process than it does hand skills and the unique expression of mark-making.

    There are other differences of course, the main one being time. It takes time to draw, paint, analyze, interpret...this is different than a 60th of a second.
    I would propose that the "artist's mark" comes in the choice of exposure time and aperature size, filters, if any, and and dark room techniques like dodging and burning, double exposure, etc, as well as the camera settings. A 30 min exposure of a waterfall will give you a totally different result than a 1/120 of a second exposure of the same thing. To me, knowing which to use to create your desired composition, to convey the feelings you wish to convey, is artistic rather than technical or scientific.

    Personally, I feel photography is just as artistic as painting. Yeah, not everyone with a camera makes art, per se, but the same is true of people with a pencil or brush- the tool doesn't make the art, the person controlling it does.

    But that said, its very possible that its my view of "crafts" that is overly narrow, and not your view of "art."

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    Trying to figure out whether something is art or not, before knowing if there is a consensus about what defines art usually makes my head want to explode.
    Also, I always want to ask "what kind of art?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbclemons View Post
    Nope.
    Didn't think so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Spot View Post
    Actually, knowing what chemicals to use to produce an effect is very skilled. You can't just splash the stuff about and hope.

    I used to do the accounts of an internationally known advertising photographer and while I was there doing my stuff, the concept of the picture came through by fax (no internet in those days). It was crude and drawn like a child. He took it, got the props made to his specifications, lit the stuff and a month later it was on a load of bill boards. He got paid about 40K a photo plus expenses. The time and care he would take for every shot was unbelievable. He was hired because he could make a vision reality.
    So just another thought, what did his business card and letterhead say? Photographer or Artist? Why don't they say "I'm a wedding artist, my medium is photography"...."I'm a sports artist...I use a camera".

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