Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"
 
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  1. #1
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    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"

    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"

    The aim is to produce 50 gestures by Sunday the 15nd of January.

    - The gestures can be of anything, human, animal, cavorting capybaras.... You can draw full figures, but you can also go for heads, arms, eyes, or anything specific. All media can be used, both digital or traditional. Coloured or black/white. Quick scribbles or long studies. Imagination or referenced. Clothed or nude. Specifics are up to you!

    - In addition to this, participants can choose to do an Optional "Objects in Perspective Study", in any medium.
    Additional notes on this weeks’ Optional Study:


    The background:
    Perspective can be tough and is often shunned. Still, a proper sense of perspective is important also in gesture drawing. A little knowledge of perspective goes a very long way! Therefore this exercise.

    The exercise:
    The concept is simple: Draw a couple of objects in perspective. Objects can be simple (cubes, rectangles). You do not have to draw out an entire perspective grid, but do make use of perspective lines and a horizon. You could go for a 1, 2 or 3 point perspective setup (or perhaps a short study for each?).

    Links:
    If you need some help on the optional study, you can do some shopping in the links below. Or search google/the tutorials section/deviantart/other places for other guides- there's no shortage!
    Link1, Link2 (thank you Vertical!)
    Another guide, with lots of theory.
    Very basic one (2-point)


    Next week optional:
    Master Muscle Study.
    Requires: Some anatomy knowledge and a suitable piece of art clearly displaying anatomy by a master artist.


    As always- reference advised, not obligatory. Colour, medium, time frame, any specifics are up to you! Good luck and have fun! And feel free to ask questions!


    50 poses is a challenge, but don't hurry or stress yourself reaching it! Focus on drawing, as practising is the main goal of this exercise.

    Criticizing each other is highly encouraged!! Share constructive criticism, reference images and resources!! Let's help each other get better!

    Come on soldiers! Flex those muscles!!

    HALL OF FAME - SPARTAN CAMP #209


    AdrianNagorski
    Talis
    MrChow
    Yinari
    ashess
    Obacmar
    Guardian G.I.
    do9
    Anthis
    Little-Maiden
    shiNIN

    Last edited by Anthis; January 10th, 2012 at 05:29 PM.

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    hi.
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    I think fox orian's tutorials would be a great ref for this part 1 part 2

    still wish i could draw like this person

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    1 study from Barksay
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    and.. zapping with the hold function on my tv! haha. I think it hold like 5 min max.
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    Exclamation

    Couple of smallish announcements.

    AdrainNagorskiand ashess - Posted a reply in last thread. Thanks for the thoughts!


    - As an experiment, I'll post the next upcoming optional study a week in advance. This way you know what's coming a bit earlier. Won't always be needed, but it can allow you to (passively or actively) stock up on some relevant reference or ideas you happen to come across.
    Goal: make the optional studies more fluent, rewarding, and backed up with guides/links/reference.

    - I have noticed some people were unable to post last week. Posts were 'invisible' as they were not mod-approved. Unfortunately, I cannot help you with this issue myself.
    If you are trying to post, but your post remains invisible: please consult a moderator. Or send me a message and I will nag a mod about it instead.

    - Reference list for this week has been updated!


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    Having some scanner issues, might not be able to do more this week
    seeing as i got to pick up peoples shifts at work. . .

    Anthis: thanks for posting next weeks topic ahead of time, gives me a chance to catch up.

    I think im doing it all wrong, really opened my eyes, i;ll seriously have to revisit all this stuff next week. A really back to basics struggle.

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    1234

    Hay evry body

    Thx Anthis i like the change definite improvement. Those are great gestures Vertical I consider them as good as your link. The purpose of gesture is to establish the pose non? So it doesn't have to be perfect..I wonder if the ones in your link were cleaned up for presentation ? Thx for the perspective link too. OMG make a grid and adjust its perspective with transform tools ! Blowing my mind. hehe Hey Ashess nice little start you got there Barksay eh? very cool. Nice perspective studies Adrian, I find some of your figures have stiff or only 1/2 a torso.

    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"

    so... Loomis REALLY likes describing things as Furrows

    Last edited by Obacmar; January 11th, 2012 at 01:21 AM.
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    Life drawing. color. I'm trying.

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    Vertical-- beautiful lines. I really love the fluidity of these!

    ashess-- quick can be a great way to learn. As long as you're focused I think a lot can come of it. Nice work.

    AdrianNagorski-- *sigh*, I suppose perspective stuff is the topic this week. Well, having done none of it I still hate it And am glad you broke the ice. Esp great putting little figures in!

    Obacmar-- Great studies! I'm sure this will come in helpful as a good reference later. I should do some…

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  17. #9
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    Comments and proper gestures later. I went a little overboard on the Hampton studies.

    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"
    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"
    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"


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    gestures, some freehand boxes in 1 & 2 point perspective and a plane study of Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal.

    The Hopkins study failed for me, i dont think its recognisable as Hopkins and it took me a long time to get a crude idea of how the planes and grid building worked. hopefully future attempts do better.

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    Here's my second batch. Great work everyone! Excuse the random tablet drawings

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    transform tool!

    hay
    Anthis the torso breakdown is awesome I esp. like the last one with the rendering you certainly know your stuff
    Maiden your work is also top notch fer sure. The faceted face is also one thing on my list of things to study. Agreed it doesn't really look like Hopkin's but the method is cool.
    Today I started with a pile of 30 sec gestures, dont be fooled they are fixed up with transform and warp tools. Then using the grid techniques I learned in one of the references.
    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"
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    @zy - i usually consider 5 min long! Not that those drawies look like I spent that much time on them; but then I only spent the whole 5 min on the dr phil. And that mostly bc I wanted to get his mustache right.
    hmm with all the beatifullwork pplhave been putting out I feel like I should do more. hopefully tomorrow!
    baby with nice& basic geomitry shaped toys.
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    exercises with cubes & putting a figure in 3d space. started in silouette. I though that would turn out better. now im not so sure.
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    obacmar- those figures in 3d space are awesome!

    anthis- those muscles in diff colors are just so usefull in explaining stuff. going to have to study these again; maybe use as ref if you dont mind ^^

    Last edited by ashess; January 13th, 2012 at 05:34 PM.
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    bah...

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    B&W photostudy. I actually started with a full grid study (like the attempt at Hopkins above) and i painted on top. You can see a bit of the grid here which i left to indicate how it started.

    The full grid study is available in my SB if anyone is interested in seeing that- but it was just a wireframe on a seperate layer that I did to see if it help me understand the face and form better.

    + Gestures.

    PS I'll post a full crit on Sunday on Camps final day.

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    Here's 25 gestures and some things in perspective... I'll do another bunch of 25 tomorrow. But I wanted to "save my spot" I guess. I'll be happy to do a crit (like I have any possible wisdom to share) on Sunday.

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    Last edited by littlebones; January 14th, 2012 at 05:03 PM.

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    lm-the study is great! I actually really like the grid showing though. the little color gestures seem to be getting away from you a bit. maybe work on a bigger scale?
    little bones- tell me those gestures are from ref. they look great! and the perspectives are good too. only think I can think of in a crit is, use a bit thicker, shurer lines.

    so tried obacmar's way of stickfigure. then did overlay with boxes. beh. Im open to suggestions; Im not at all happy with my figures without ref right now...


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    Here are the rest of the gestures, 24 in all to top off the 26 I did yesterday. I feel proud, I'd attempted the spartan challenges before but never finished in time to post. Decided to try something different with the gestures, taking ashess' advice to use bigger thicker lines.

    Speaking of whom... ashess, what seems to be the matter with your poses from imagination is that the proportions and perspective are out of whack. Do a few proportion drills from Loomis or something to really beat them into your head, eventually you'll be able to more or less see what looks right or wrong. But don't get discouraged, drawing the human figure from imagination is a hell of a task. Also, none of the gestures from the above post are from imagination, they're all from reference, but still I'm glad you like them!

    Only the last 3 in this set are from imagination, all others are from reference. Not sure why one guy is wearing a plague doctor mask and a diaper, but he is. I was going for a sort of zombie-shamble in the fourth 5-minute pose...

    Enough talk!

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    Some crits and replies (will post more tmrw)

    @Ashess thanks, I did think the study of the portrait with grid did turn out better than I was expecting. Still not capturing likeness but its closer than previous attempts. As for my colour gestures, with 2mins its hard to refine especially if you're working with a fairly large brush size. I also work on a fairly large canvas (5000x6000) at 100% and then I resize to a smaller size so it fits here.

    As for your figures with ref, its normal to find it alot more difficult. If I have ref im finding it easier and easier to draw them. I guess just keep studying refs and refining both ref'd work and eventually it'll trickle down to your imagined work.

    @littlebones
    nice gestures, your perspective studies are good, but try doing them freehand rather than with the shift point to point in photoshop. Its uglier but you'll train your hand alot more that way. Perspective is easy since its just making sure it all relates to VPs and Horizon Line. So the best thing is drawing point to point freehand. You learn the way things fit alot better that way.

    @Obacmar Nice bunch of figures, the perspective grids are working well. Some proportions are off, but you can probably see which ones glare at you.

    @Anthis Great anatomy studies! Although, the last one; the rendered torso study. It feels like you made a mistake with the area under the chest. It looks like the top of the abs are rounded out and it looks like a weird lump is bulging out. Nonetheless everything else is top notch.


    ____________________________________________

    21 arm studies.

    abstract perspective studies, a step up from previous cube studies. Overlapping the cubes really can pose a bit of a challenge if you're not used to it.

    The threepoint one is a bit forced when the cubes get so close. I realise the two points are too close to one another so they're forcing the lens.

    The One point might look off, i messed up the photo taking.

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  37. #20
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    Here's my last batch. Really nice perspective work, everything looks so clean! I kinda regret not getting around to it.

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    figured id try littlebones's advice and do some loomis.
    gave me a lot more trouble then I'd though; maybe this is the issue I have been running into.
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    @ littlebones: drawings looking good! some could do with less lines; but I think they look a lot better with strong lines; you agree?

    @ lm- haha. Im a little too old and been drawing wayy too long to just keep at it and hope it turns out ok. way too long. no im doing something fundementally wrong. some pieces turn out ok, but only if I have a concrete image in my head. or when I just freestyle, and suddenly see an image in my lines. if I try to be systemetic about it, it all goes outta wack. gonna keep pushing on that for a while; then I can prolly go back to drawing the images in my head; and I hope there will be improvement.
    about the paints; yesI figured maybe erase the round lines sticking out. i dunno. I have a problem with the round brush going outside if the drawing like that.

    >>SKETCHBOOK. you'll visit me. I'll visit you, we'll have a tea party. with arts and shit. it'll be dreamy. stop by.
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    Hello everyone!

    I know I am late, but I wanted to post some studies I did. I didn't have much time this week, so I add my poses from last week which I wanted to add it in previous camp, but my post was not visible. I did some perspective studies yesterday, but some angles are off, think they should be over 90 degrees.
    Here it is.

    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"
    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"
    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"
    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"
    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"

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  41. #23
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    Vertical; Think you're doing good on these. Interesting to see you need that warmup time! I too notice a big difference between the first and the last gestures. Yours are very organic and diverse. I'm not sure, but the thick lines sometimes seem to work in your disadvantage. Tablet drawings are no problem.. in fact I believe you should just draw about everything you see.

    ashess; That is.... a fantastic idea. The hold function. Wonder why I didn't come up with that. Will give it a shot. Perhaps the 'silhouette in space' study didn't turn out well because of the details you put in. They're black and blend in with the background, which harms the silhouette in some areas. The black details also seem slightly overstated. Because the original plain form is pretty good; especially those legs. Nice to see you picking up different approaches. The 'boxes figures' are not hard on me as well. You went for really tough angles straight away though.
    You probably shouldn't use my studies as reference - I have to admit I get sloppy on following the proportions and measurements.

    AdrianNagorski; Thanks, I'll keep doing that for now. Also builds a buffer just in case I eh.. forget to add or update the optional study.
    It appears that we're both struggling with those ellipses. You actually added a square in the middle, I'll give that a shot next time. As far as I know, this comes down to practice. Envision the circle you're drawing as a ball trapped in a box. Empathise roundness. Worked decently for me.
    I also noticed your technique for drawing those receding fence-like shapes (Somewhere top right-ish). Your approach is way easier than mine which makes me feel kind of silly. I used some guide. Love the random sketches.

    Obacmar; I like the change too! Will keep that.
    The Loomis study with the notes on furrows and indentations is fantastic. I believe I did one as well, but I seem to have lost some of the knowledge. Time to revise, because this is invaluable. I believe it's showing in your figures as well. The 30sec gestures as you are drawing them seem like a great warmup as well. I sometimes recognize stuff, but could you add whether or not these are referenced? Some very sturdy studies there! I like how most of your figures are well grounded.

    zy.; life drawing? Digital? I like that. You seemed to struggle a bit with those first gestures, but it looks as if that's mostly the medium. I thought 1min is too short for proper construction, but you manage to get at least some guidelines in. I think the two gestures in the bottom middle are most effective. Nice colour studies. I like especially the last one since by then you really got into those saturated tones. You even managed to get a well sculpted face in. Did you use a tablet pc?

    Little-Maiden; Very good point on the use of reference. I often keep an extensive reference folder nearby, to stay inspired and 'on the right track'. Thanks for the crit. Actually I noticed the lump in the original drawing by Hampton, but figured I should just follow his lead. I made it lumpier instead... ruined it!
    Those are some extensive studies! I've always wanted to do a plane study like that. I guess there's a certain rationale behind placing those planes. Like how you handled the eyelids; that makes sense. Areas facing certain directions get assigned their respective planes and accompanying value. Things get messy around the cheeks/jawline; you seem lost on placement of those 'squares'. It's less straightforward there.. not sure how I would have handled it. Wonderful job on those arms; these focused studies can do a lot. You're doing especially well on the foreshortening.

    littlebones; Welcome! You've got some very solid studies here, and thanks for providing some critique! Good points. I like the perspective stuff: I can see that just like me, you quickly got bored of normal squares and started adding some more complex shapes. Great job on the gestures. You manage to maintain a very natural feel without exaggerating the forms or losing track of proportions too often. Those feet seem to be giving you some problems however, as do the hands. You tend to go for detail early on but simplifying really helps you in your second post. Careful with those faces though! The last gestures without ref are excellent, especially #3. Complex pose! Very nice studies!

    blu01; Hey Blu01! glad you managed to get in this time. I hope the mods were not too problematic this time around... As far as I know, you shouldn't have these issues any more by now. You're not really late, but joining earlier is usually more fun. Not sure if you actually posted the perspective studies; I can't see them. Nice job on the Loomis studies. Especially torso and arms are pretty solid. You should check the proportions on the lower body and legs though. Some of these figures seem on the stocky side. This may be easier to see when you actually draw full figures though. I like how you handled these however. Lots of action and some foreshortening. Good job!

    Just perspective. Got confused a couple of times. I wonder how you 3 point perspective when the 3rd vanishing point is actually off the canvas/paper....

    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"
    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"


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    @Anthis ah, then the weird lump is explained. I was looking at it and I was like- thats one hell of a weird looking lump, doesn't seem like a mistake you'd make.
    I agree with you on the Hopkins grid study. I started with alot of enthusiasm. but I lost so much steam after seeing how badly it was going. I lost focus so many times that I botched the study. However the mistakes I made served well for the next study (the girl: Olga Kurylenko).

    As for your perspective studies, I realised I need to do one where the objects dont have a lovely disappearing line to the vanishing points. Like I always find it easy to draw cubes as long as they are facing the vanishing points. But It screws me over where the object is turned at a werid angle, so that its not facing the vanishing point, but somewhere else.

    @Ashess
    If you feel like theres something fundamentally wrong with your drawing, then the only advice I can possibly give is not "go back to the fundementals" like you'd expect. The best you could probably do is throw yourself way out of your comfort zone. I mean look long and hard at how you are studying. Its not what you're studying but more your method.

    So the next time you sit down, don't just do what you usually do. For example, I used to do a lot of digital work, you can see in the opening pages of my SB how much I spent on the tablet, while pencils were mainly for crappy doodles in places where I didn't have my laptop available. Then I studied and read more and more and sent emails regarding my method of study and completely abandoned the tablet for a couple of months and stuck primarily to pencils; and it sucked ass. I was used to digital and working with pencils was hard, but the crappy few days I had to endure paid off. I've only recently started using the tablet again and I can see the help altering my study method has had.

    Now I changed the medium I was working in. This doesn't mean it'll work for you. I've said this before I think, but you should really sit down and do an extended study. You tend to do alot of gestural work which is all good and great for warmups but that gestural drawing is bleeding into your studies and so while your action is fluid, the accuracy of drawings will suffer. Its got to be a balance. Thats why I don't bother to be accurate with my colour gestures cause thats not the point, nor are my gestures accurate either since its the action and flow that i'm capturing. (Though I'd love to be accurate and rhythmic like Mr. Chow).

    Just sit down and keep in mind what the purpose of your study is: Accuracy? Form? Rhythm? stick to one and adjust your studying style to it. Don't mix gestural drawing with extended studies and don't mix accurate contour studying with the chaos and flow of gestures.


    I'll throw in an example, the earlier post you did, where you draw a bunch of faces, a guy on a motorbike etc. are very gestural in the sense that the lines are clearly organic looking. Try doing the same study but instead of organic flowy lines. work in straight geometric lines. Using straight lines to form curves rather than actual curved lines.

    I hope what I said is accurate, and that it helps.

    @zy.
    I forgot to say earlier, but when you're doing colour studies under no circumstances start with an airbrush. Your colour is there, but its blurry and while blurry hides glaring mistakes, it doesn't help improve. Try doing them with either a hard, or a semi hard edge (like a custom ragged-edged brush) just stay away from airbrush. Thats a tool to be used sparingly I think. I barley even blend with the airbrush and prefer other brushes for it.

    ---------
    6am in Asia atm, and I've not slept all night.

    Been drawing arms (added 30 more to the studies i did yesterday) for a total of 50! woohoo *wipes brow* I will now start a more extended perspective study so I can post. After seeing Anthis' own perspective studies, I feel the need to do something of equal study value!

    Numbers in Red indicate reference used.
    Numbers in Blue indicate no-reference

    Sigh I really should have drawn more, but got stuck reading the entire manga Highschool of the Dead for like 3 hours. Sigh Skimpy Girls+Weapons+Zombies. If 2012 is the year the world ends, let me be a survivor in a zombie apocalypse!

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    Last edited by Little-Maiden; January 15th, 2012 at 09:18 PM.
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  45. #25
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    Vertical - awesome line economy while still maintaining lively gestures; the tutorials you posted really helped me out with perspective, especially 3-point, which eluded me 'til now.

    Ashess - I already told you what I thought, I hope it was at least somewhat useful; and yeah, my own studies look much better with thicker lines, thank you!

    AdrianNagorski - I dunno if you're doing it all wrong, but I'm no master. I think in your gestures/poses you try to detail your figures soo soon, before you get the right proportions/feeling of the pose down. Ignore the woman's glasses for example, pretend she doesn't even have a face until she has arms and legs.

    Obacmar - First of all I always read your username as "Obamacare". Second of all, those are some seriously excellent figures. Nice, confident lines and lively poses.

    zy - I would focus on pure value before heading to colour, and on the *forms* of the figures before you focus on contour. I see a good start on those figures but try to get the feeling of the pose before you worry about the right details & outlines. That 20 minute study is looking good!

    Anthis - Muscle studies are a real good idea, and I guess now you'll be prepared in advance for next week, eh? Thanks a lot for your critique, and for running Spartan Camp. I'm happy to provide crits and I only hope they're helpful, any acknowledgement at all that my own art exists makes me giddy so I hope to give others the same feeling.

    Little Maiden - Great perspective studies and gestures, and that planes-of-the-face study looks pretty damn confusing so I can't blame you for being flummoxed. I'll take your advice next time and attempt to freehand the lines, and there is an example of me doing that in my Sketchbook but it's pretty shit so I didn't post it, haha. Thanks for the critique! And nice arms! 28 is especially good, arms in perspective are difficult.

    blu01 - Like Anthis said, your figures are a bit squat, a lot like mine were when I first started practicing figures so it's not too hard a problem to fix. Honestly, I find it just comes with time and persistence, like everything else. If you're doing Loomis already then you're on the right track. Looking good!

    If I repeated anything or spoke out of turn, sorry in advance! I hope to be a pretty regular contributor to this from now on. Good to be here.


    We are cups, constantly and quietly being filled. The trick is, knowing how to tip ourselves over and let the beautiful stuff out.
    - Ray Bradbury
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  47. #26
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    Here are my perspective studies, if you can't see them above. I thought that I had uploaded them yesterday, but never mind.

    Anthis: Thank you very much for your help and critique. I am glad that there are so amazing activities I can participate in. And big thanks for this awesome camp. You are right about my work I will practice it.
    Anyway I wasn't able to update my SB this day and yesterday again and my post from today was not visible too (I mean post which I wanted to add here in camp). This is my second attempt.

    littlebones: thanks a lot for your crit.

    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"
    Spartan Camp #209 - 50 gestures + Optional "Objects in Perspective Study"

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  48. #27
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    littlebones - No problems, and I completely agree. I don't always have the time for critique. Plus I've never followed any art education myself. Still, a pair of fresh eyes can be very helpful!

    blu01 - Your posts took ages to appear! Guess the mods are/were busy. It's happening in other activities too...
    Love the perspective. Looks like a cityscape!


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  50. #28
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    poor blu! and you worked so hard, obviously. very nice persepectives!

    not sure why you wrote 'wrong angle' down @ the bottom. it seems fine. not aligning the buildings down there might have been a mistake visually, but its not wrong per se..

    >>SKETCHBOOK. you'll visit me. I'll visit you, we'll have a tea party. with arts and shit. it'll be dreamy. stop by.
    >>mah tumbr
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  52. #29
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    I wondered about that as well, but now I am trying to wrap my mind about what would happen if you were to extend the paper and continue drawing buildings beyond the point blu01 marked as "wrong angle". Will it still make sense?


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  53. #30
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    I have read one book about perspective, and there was written that angles should be bigger than 90 degrees. It happens when the vanishing point are very close to each other, don't know if it is my case.

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