Mage and warrior(REVAMPED, check it)

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  1. #1
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    Mage and warrior(REVAMPED, check it)

    Hi,

    I wanted to show my piece at very early stage. I've done only very little female characters and wanted to know if I've made some mistakes with the anatomy or posing. I didn't find good reference for the pose I wanted so it might be a bit inaccurate. I also had hard time with the clothing.

    Here it is, only basic forms and main clothing. I didn't want to rush the details until I hear your opinions. Thanks!

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  3. #2
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    The torso is too short and her shoulders are definitely too wide compared to her face. Her arms are also very short and her legs vary in size way too much, even considering foreshortening. If you haven't already, make sure you look into Andrew Loomis' "Figure Drawing for all it's Worth" and be sure to pay particular attention to the proportions of the figure.

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  5. #3
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    Well at first glance the arms are bit short and she's pretty muscular, considering your average female mage is usually the opposite of that.
    The folds look bit off, especially the several wrinkles the come over her leg on the right (image side) and the chest folds are bit odd too as they seem to be pointing upwards.

    But I might ask, what is she doing here? Jumping to the side, casting a spell, hitting with her staff, just posing?

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  7. #4
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    Thanks for your super fast replies! I have read that Loomis' book. I actually used it as my reference for anatomy. But when the pose gets different and foreshortening comes in, something always goes wrong :/ But well... Maybe I've drawn too much male figures. I tried not to make it too masculine but I still did it. I tried to fix the issues. I just made the whole figure less wide and redrew the arms.

    The pose is meant to be spell casting. She's just aiming at her target and leans out from the powerful blast of magic. I don't know how it reads but I try to make it clear to the viewers with some cool lighting effects.

    Feel free to give me more comments.

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  8. #5
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    Quick update. Added also a new warrior character.

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  9. #6
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    The arm holding the weapon looks too short and if she's aiming the weapon at her target and blasting magic through it WHY would you have the arm going back behind her? Go get a broom. Point it as though you were going to blast someone with it. Where is your arm? I'm betting your first instinct is not to stuff it behind you.

    One of the most useful things you can get is a cheap digital camera with a self-timer so you can take your own reference, but even if there's no way for you to get one just acting the scene out in front of a mirror will help.

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  11. #7
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    As others have pointed above, is quite unclear what she is doing(the same thing for the warrior).Acting the pose as vineris suggested is a great way to understand the action and also feel the character.If you have a big mirror it can help you to visualize the perspective and the position in space of every element.
    Keep in mind also the under structure of the figure, at least in abstract terms.

    I added some drawings with some visual comments.Hope you don't mind,english is not my native language so is easy to explain with drawings.If something is unclear let me know.

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    Some useful links:

    Anatomy Process: "Drawing the Head with Ron Lemen" covers light and head anatomy:
    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=84105

    Anatomy Process: "Drawing the Head with FredFlickstone":
    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14119

    Anatomy Process: "Figure Drawing" Includes Downloadable PDF:
    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=135935

    Drapery:

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14739

    Anatomy studies demos by Kevin Chen:

    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...ght=kevin+chen

    Hope it helps.Cheers

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  13. #8
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    my two cents

    DIMAGYAN has given you some excellent advice and some wonderful drawings my advice seems second rate but here it is anyways.....in my opinion one of the keys to female anatomy is the hips the hips are what can make a drawing a man with boobs to a feminine character ...and as far as clothes go wind from viewers right clothes go the same.....anyways did this just to help you visualize what I'm mumbling about
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    just my thoughts in passing do with it what you will.....

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  15. #9
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    Thanks a lot. Gotta save those links. I've read some of them but a new look is never bad

    You gave me a lot to think about. One of my problems is that I usually make my poses really static and stiff. I went forward and revamped the pose. I wanted more dynamic pose so I tried to add some twist. I also acted a bit in front of a mirror and got some ideas about the staff hand.

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  16. #10
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    You might want to learn how to draw boobs. Which i the easiest thing to stick to really, and probably the easiest piece of reference to find on the net

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  18. #11
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    I went forward and now I'm at this point. I'm pretty satisfied with the result.

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    I just quickly used the liquify tool to shape up her general form a little. It's a bit over the top and cartoony now, but you might get the idea.

    However, I'm not sure whether the staff points to the right spot. Right now she'd be blasting her spell right to the ground - just sayin.

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  20. #13
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    Thanks for comments! Next stage:

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  21. #14
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    at a quick glance. The legs read a little weird, partly due to the shape of the feet and partly due to the way you have the lower part of her dress. When I first glanced, the left looked like it was on the right and vice versa. I had to look at your rough drawing to be sure. Work on the feet.

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  23. #15
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    Drawing dynamic poses is always a challenge,
    and there are some things that should be
    kept in mind when you're illustrating. It's
    not enough to just consider the anatomical
    issues and then proceed. When you start
    talking about the human form in motion, you
    have to consider things like rotation, stress,
    direction, weight, ect. From a narrative
    perspective, if your character is simultaneously
    sprinting and/or twisting her torso to face an
    attacker, it's doubtful she's going to be able to
    keep her torso at a 90 degree angle relative to
    the ground. That's the reason why the left leg
    looks wonky, and why she still appears static.
    Her body isn't responding to the extreme motion
    that she's launching into. Furthermore, 90 degree
    angles are typically associated with static positions.

    It's also important to think about how people
    actually distribute weight, or handle heavy objects.
    For instance, no one would probably ever hold a
    claymore in that position. Given a weapon of that
    size and weight, most of it's destructive potential is
    going to come from a downward swinging motion.
    Trying to attack from the defensive posture you've
    illustrated would be ineffective in a combat situation.

    Here's a quick sketch of what I'm talking about:

    Name:  Critique_02.jpg
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    Tennis players are always a good to study specifically
    because they must simultaneously perform complex
    hand-eye maneuvers while moving dynamically.

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  25. #16
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    Next version. Trying the basic light setting.



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    Honestly I'd fix the leg issue before going to any colour and I'd also suggest you to research more of the folds in the clothes. If the dress is loose enough to show both breasts separately (a tight dress will just spread over both of them, removing most cleavage) then it's not likely to produce such wrinkles on the lower parts of the breasts either, especially ones that go against the larger wrinkles coming from her side. Right now the wrinkles give more of a "wet t-shirt contest" look.
    Examples of breasts tight and loose clothes:
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  28. #18
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    You need the reference, even if it means going through the trouble of making maquettes of human figures or just getting action figures in the poses you want. That way at least you can see how they forshorten. Right now her left leg is looking like it's in front of her right because you haven't solved the fact that these figures are occupying 3d space.

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  30. #19
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    Apart from the above crits which are dead on, if you turn your colour picture grayscale it's a pretty uniform gray. The defining feature of light isn't that it's blue or yellow, it's that it's LIGHT. Pay attention to your values first.

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  32. #20
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    Thanks for those shirt references. I'm definitely NOT wanting that "wet t-shirt"-look. So I redone the wrinkles and I think it looks now a lot better.

    I also take a long breath, selected bright red color and started painting 3d cylinders over my legs. I found out that the feet are causing the biggest problems with the legs. The shadow the figure cast was also a bit distracting. Also noticed that I hadn't mirrored this one for a while. Helps a lot

    I hope this one reads better.

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  33. #21
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    Joining the chorus screaming about the impossible legs.


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  34. #22
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    Help me make them better

    Edit: Is the last version any better than the previous? Because I find it a bit more believeable.

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  35. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pate5 View Post
    Help me make them better
    We are. Get an action figure or something!

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  36. #24
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    I'd just like to throw in my two cents here. Anatomy issues aside, the poses for both the characters just don't make sense in your image. I can kind of infer that there might be some sort of danger outside of the frame that the characters are preparing for, but at first glance it reads like the warrior is just calmly resting there and the mage is skipping for no apparent reason.

    You should change the warriors stance to one that is more battle-ready, feet wide apart, arms and sword raised, and tension in the muscles and face. As for the mage, (again, anatomy issues aside) her pose might work if you show a hint of a menacing figure in the foreground so that we can more easily tell that she is attacking something or defending herself.

    However, before you get into all that foreground stuff you should definitely spend more time on your characters as everyone else is suggesting.
    Best of luck with the image.

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  38. #25
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    The first thing I would do when starting a project like this is to map out the story I want to tell. The drama, the mood, the composition. I would map out the body language and facial expressions of the figures. Don't worry about anatomy and structure. You can generate reference for that later. First, figure out what you want to achieve. Right now, I feel that the body language of the figures is too sedate, and the facial expressions are blank. My rough sketch is really more of a caricature than anything else, just to figure out how to proceed without getting hung up on anatomy and perspective. My doodle is just what I think would look neat, but it could be one of millions of other solutions. For reference, what I like to do is have a friend videotape me going through the entire action sequence that the illustration is supposed to capture. Then I find a still-frame that most closely expresses the shape that I want. That way, I avoid getting a "posed" look

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  40. #26
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    Well, I couln't do that pose with my wooden art doll because its knee joints didn't twist enough :/ I made a quick 3d model to get the pose better. Now I'm really confused because even the 3d render quite didn't read well.

    I know I'm bad with anatomy, so this is my "final" try with the legs. I really do want to practice more but I want to move forward with this piece. I can't learn everything while doing one piece so I just decided to try get it finished. I redrew the legs again and started the painting progress. I would ESPECIALLY love to get comments about the lighting, rendering etc. I will just cover the back foot with a nice puff of smoke and everyone will be pleased(or not).

    The warrior's pose is actually a real swordfighting stance ("The fool").

    Thanks everyone, you have been very helpful! And remember to help me with the lighting

    EDIT: Now I saw rolandb's post. That was great. I think now that this composition is just too boring to work. I think I'll scrap the whole thing and try again from the start.

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  41. #27
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    Some poses are harder to render well than others. Something that can look fine in a photograph can look "wrong" in an illustration, even if it's 100% accurate. I find that sometimes it just comes down to picking a pose based on how easy it is to draw (while still achieving what I want it to do). I suspect that many classic poses in renaissance paintings were chosen for just that reason. That cross-legged foreshortened pose that you were doing was going to be tough for anyone to pull off.

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  42. #28
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    Well, the legs/feet read pretty badly not only because there's no overlap (unlike in the 3D mock, where the other foot overlaps the leg) but the shadow on the ground doesn't clearly show the foot's height from the ground and the feet are impossible to tell between left or right in shape. Also the foot on the back is angled towards us, when seeing which foot it is, it should be pointing towards the guy.

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  43. #29
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    I agree with TinyBird. The legs look like an optical illusion.

    Minimal art went nowhere. - Sol LeWitt

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    The legs still look like her right foot is behind her left. Her right thigh is too long. Her right arm is still stubby. Why is she running (and from where), while her companion is still and braced for combat? What is she looking at, and why does it bore her so much?


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