Joan of Arc WIP
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    Joan of Arc WIP

    what do you think i should do to make it better ?

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    Her face is looking really washed out. I think going deeper with the midtones and shadows would help.

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    Not a big fan of the background. The blue clashes with her armor IMO. I think you may have had a slip of the eraser on her right shoulder where the armor and hair meet, there's a wierd out cropping of skin or something?

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    I'd try to define the areas of light and shadow on the hair better... right now it looks kind of messy and unconvincing. You might try using a large, opaque brush underneath and then going over it with some smaller brushes and make a few individual strands of hair here and there.

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    hey mat0fr. i agree with the others, but first of all i would do this to get you on your way. you see the two images below - theres quite a lot of difference between them, and all i did to achieve the quick (and effective) contrast is to copy the whole image on to its own layer (ctrl + A - to select all, ctrl + shift + c to copy all, then ctrl + v) then set that layer to multiply (overlay can work aswell but youve gone too light for that to work). so i would do that then follow the others advice. oh i also made the background darker by painting over it, and make sure you dont go all the way to full brightness and zero saturation.

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    oh and the best advice i can give you for hair - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqBPa...feature=relmfu

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    thanks for your advices, i gona work more on the image !

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    Well, she looks pretty, alright. Maybe I'd try unifying the colors a bit more...

    You could atempt puting some warm in her skin, background and armor, as well as desature them a bit, so the clean blue of her eyes and her redish hair would stand out more; if your intention is to make her as some sort of the symbol of France, hence the blue-white-red scheme, desaturating a bit her skin (less pink) could also contribute to this effect.

    I'd also second the propossal of re-thinking a bit the background; right now the red dripping looks more like an action painting gesture than, say, a stain of blood.

    Also: the eyes seem a little bit off; maybe the right one isn't looking where it should (at the viewer?) and/or the left one isn't at the appropriate perspective. Give that a check, as well.

    Last edited by elemile; January 4th, 2012 at 10:30 AM.
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    she does have fairly strange features, you could make a more lovely model.

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    there, i changed the colors, the background, worked on the face , hair, and fixed the eyes.

    what do you think ?

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    im guessing you didnt like the multiply idea then? fair enough - but then your still going to need to add a lot more definition in her face manually then. her face is still too white - even if shes ment to be pale skined, you still dont want to go maximum white. also i think the background is even more distracting than before. look at how dave rapoza does it for an example of backgrounds http://davidrapozaart.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=0

    im also going to go against wunts and say that she is quite lovely, in a non generic pornstar kinda way, much more fitting than a super beautiful model whos been botoxed to shit.

    also have you worked out the armour before putting in the hair? because it looks a little flat and inconidered atm.

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    The main problem you have is that the whole picture is treated like individual elements.For instance the eyes are too defined, you even made individual eyelashes.Meanwhile the rest of the head is a bit washed.

    I pasted a crit that Elwell posted in an old thread of mine:

    "You're focusing on the features too much, too soon. Remember, the overall shape of the head is effected by light and shadow, and how the smaller forms appear is dictated by their placement within that larger lighting pattern. You need to work on really conceptualizing the direction and quality of the light, and how it interacts with the forms and planes."

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    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...02&postcount=4

    Is a great advise that made me think more on the whole structure and the direction of light.I thought you could find useful the read.

    I suppose you are working with a reference for the head,right? a good way to observe the subtle variations of light and direction is to Illuminate your own head in front of a mirror with a lamp, this way you can observe in ral time how direction of the light source and the observer angle,change the visualization of the form.Also it helps to avoid the flat aspect of a photo and/or any digital enhancement or retouches that could have.

    As dog-faced said in a post above, the skin is too light.Even if you want to make her quite pale you are using an extreme light grey as the base color.Some contrast is needed.The Background compite quite a bit with the face.I do like her face features especially since she is Joan of Arch, it fits the character.

    I took the liberty to make a paintover of your picture.Mainly i softened a lot of edges since everything was to much hard.Changed some parts of the anatomy(eyes mainly and some parts of the head) and the hair.
    I tryied to stay as close as posible to the origianl head, in that regard the face changed a bit aswell as the expression.Sorry for that.Still it conveys the critiques i made above.

    I used a mirror and a lamp to get the direction of the light.

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    I worked the general forms, softened some edges.


    Continue with the rendering keeping the structure as close as posible to your original picture.At this stage i was concerned specifically about the forms, light and temperature of colors.

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    At the last stage i added some lights.In general is bet to left highlights or any kind of strong lights for the end, and be quite modest with its use.(it can become quite plastic)

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    Since you went for a realistic kind of portrait with details, i tryied to mantain that level of structure.Still is best to think in general abstract terms instead of individual pieces and details(at least at the beggining) like not drawing every single hairs, eyelashes, iris details,etc.In some aspects is better to keep the eyes simple and not overdone features.

    I didn't worked to much in the armour but as the rest of the image, is better to keep it simple and then add detail where is needed and remove enphasis where is detrimental for your image.

    Hope this can be useful for you.
    Cheers

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  14. #13
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    WOOOOW

    thank you so much Diego ... i love your work and i love what you did with my painting, you give me really good advices and i will do my best to use them to finish this painting.

    what kind of brush did you use for the paint over ?

    what was wrong in the eyes ?

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    here what i ended with after 4 hours following the great advices of DIMAGYAN.
    i have some difficulties with painting her hairs ...

    what do you think ?

    thanks to you all anyway, i learned a lot and still want to improv.

    ( sorry for my english, i am french )

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    Glad my post was useful to you mat0fr.

    Regarding your questions,i used a round brush with flow at 20 percent in Easy paitool Sai.
    Still it doesn't really matter the kind of brush or software.You just need to apply the same principles but taking into account the kind of tool you have.For instance, using just flow lets you make quite loose strokes but at the same time is more complicated to make firm or harder edges.You can soft edges with a standard round brush, changing the level of hardness in the settings of your software of choice or use opacity at diferent levels,etc.
    Just concentrate on the masses, the form and the planes.You can do this with no blending at all.

    Rendering discussion(edges,light,etc)

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=51913

    Regarding the eyes, the main problem is that the eyes you painted are quite frontal and not inserted in the sockets of the skull.Mainly you want to give the illusion of depth by making the eyes part of the head instead of pasted on the face,(that make sense?) The hard edges,lack of overlapping, exesive detail and white also work against that illusion.Remember that the occular globe is basically an orb with folds(eyelids).Eyelids change in perspective so one must pay special atention to the structure around the orbs and not so much to details(iris, pupil,reflection,etc) the main thing is to have a good arrangement of the forms surround the eye and the eyelids and last the details of the eyes on itself.Look in fornt of the mirror to see this, is the most easy way to check the perspective and the form.

    A lot of great reading on the subject aswell as form and construction:

    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=174730

    The new painting is better.For the hair look for references and treat it like masses not individual strains, go for the general and leave the specific for the last. keep it up!

    Cheers

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    I like the face, but honestly I liked the face from the beginning. She has a touch of the weirdness that Joan should. The problem now is the problem then, which is that her body doesn't fit together with her head. Figure out what's going on under the armor, then construct the armor over that.


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    All I can see is a floating head. The lighting on her face cuts the neck off.

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    Personally, I liked the curly hair better (more ancient/epic, if you know what I mean; like a portrait of Lilith...) but however you prefer is better, as long as you elaborate it further enough (at least as much as you've done with the skin and facial features).

    About the background: I could say it's good that you took away the confusing red drip; but, once again, it's finally up to you how the background should be, in accordance with the symbolic meaning you're trying to convey. However, if your choice is to leave it neutral altogether, and since you're still halfway on this new version, I'd only suggest not to forget making its dept way more explicit: to push it back, so it really looks like a space behind the figure, where light is also going through (like, say, in a Rembrandt self-portrait; there are literally hundreds of them -I think- so you can google them and find a good effect you can take as a reference for your picture).

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    Also (I just noticed): correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you pasted part of the armor's texture from a photography. I'd rather not do that: it's just not very honest or effective at all (IMO) and it alone can devalue the entire piece. So better be patient, explore a little and try to find an appropriate pictoric equivalent for that texture, wich can be consistent with the general style of your work; it doesn't even need to be that complicated: stylized/simplified can be fine as long as it serves well to the mood (I think); I attach you an example, from a Klimt's work.

    Name:  klimt-palas-atenea.jpg
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    Last edited by elemile; January 6th, 2012 at 01:49 AM.
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    I like it alot

    her face is spectacular...I agree you need to look at her body size ie shoulder spacing and her body going back into space...and as for hair your on the right track......hair can be very time consuming it is all about proper definition of the chunks of hair and then adding strands to the chunks to make it all look like strands of hair
    Name:  Hilary-Duff-Long-Hair.jpg
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    did quick google search and this shows what I'm talking about

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    thanks you all for your precious advices, i really learned a lot on this one.

    here my latest version of Joan.

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    better, i would re paint that ear then paint hair back over it.

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