Christopher Hitchens Dead :( - Page 3
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  1. #61
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    that's a very good and insightful post s.ketch. I think that is the most agreeable point of view.

    To clarify myself up a little bit, I did used the scientist card because one time I had a silly and drunk Zen koan question with some friends. And there was one guy who answers all of them right away and turn the whole thing into him explaining basic science to everyone. It was obvious though that he didn't stop to think through possibilities of the paradoxical questions at all, which was the whole point of the koans. I realize he only accepts the authority of scientists. So that's probably what I had in mind when I mention the quantum scientists.

    Just for fun, I think if Zen masters were asked either to defend "Intelligent design, or blind creation?" I think their answer will be something like "the real truth is fourty two"

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  3. #62
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    "velocity: i really (sincerely!) enjoy reading your posts...why do i bring ares up? because we are fighting the war against terror, and ares' two chariot battle horses with which he waged war were called Phobos and Deimos: Fear and Terror."



    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; December 20th, 2011 at 08:28 PM.
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  5. #63
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    Just for once,
    can we please just ban someone for being a tool.

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  6. #64
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    warmongering is a crime and should be stopped

    Last edited by samthemule; December 20th, 2011 at 09:15 PM. Reason: too much text
    ...
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  7. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    Considering how strongly I dislike evangelical Christians and fanatical Wasabbi Muslims its amusing to me to defend religion, but Id be amazed if some form of spirituality wasnt alive and well in the fantastically complex culture of 4000AD.
    With a bit of luck it will be this one:

    http://www.pantheism.net/

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  8. #66
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    Yeah!! The services will be like this:



    lyrics by rev. ferrera

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  9. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    I dont think there is a god in this universe, at least not yet, because nothing we see requires his hand by way of explanation. We can say the universe is as it is because it is one of an infinite number in a greater multiverse. Nature seems to behave along self-consistent laws which we are making great progress understanding. Nowhere do we see the hand of a capricious, meddlesome God as described in the middle-east desert religions.

    "For anyone to say that there is an omnipotent and all-loving being watching over us and not be lambasted - or at least laughed at - is, frankly, worrisome."

    Nah, leave em be, so long as theyre happy and not shoving it down your throat, its fine.
    I strongly dislike drawing some kind of - as far as I can see - arbitrary line between the religions that are "benign" and the ones that threaten our species. I'm not about to go out of my way to convince benign believers but I certainly don't regard them as exempt from criticism and I certainly won't refrain from criticizing them just because they're comparatively benign.


    "Religion has, for better or worse, and in part, seen us through the last 2000 years of our history. But it will not be religion that sees us through the next 2000 years. "

    Considering how strongly I dislike evangelical Christians and fanatical Wasabbi Muslims its amusing to me to defend religion, but Id be amazed if some form of spirituality wasnt alive and well in the fantastically complex culture of 4000AD. Judaism has been around for 4000 years already and I doubt theyre going to just give it all up any time soon. Nor should they.
    I don't doubt "spirituality" will be with us forever, but I don't see religions monopolizing it for much longer - at least not in the first world. However demonstratively capable religions are at surviving, the Internet is increasingly ruled by atheism. Humanity's Information-age inducing tool seems ever more poisonous to superstition of any kind. I don't see much of today's "spirituality" being taken seriously, say, a century from now - but I do see it evolving into something else.

    I'd love to see what such rituals in a scientifically literate society might look like.

    Brendan Noeth

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  11. #68
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    "I strongly dislike drawing some kind of - as far as I can see - arbitrary line between the religions that are "benign" and the ones that threaten our species."

    Welllll, I guess on the one hand you have the comfort people get from imagining say, their ancestors are watching over them from a better place, or that kind acts might be rewarded, and on the other religious nuts in the US or Iran who possess nuclear weapons and religious reasons for using them (ie a belief in the end times, or rivalry with another religion)

    "Humanity's Information-age inducing tool seems ever more poisonous to superstition of any kind."

    I disagree; the internet is rife with superstition. Samthemule, quack science trinkets, ghosts, ufos, if anything this kind of new age style secular religion has been empowered by the net, as it allows beleivers to congregate and reinforce eachother.
    Theyre generally harmless though in the main.

    "I don't see much of today's "spirituality" being taken seriously, say, a century from now - but I do see it evolving into something else. I'd love to see what such rituals in a scientifically literate society might look like."

    interesting. most religions seem to have been selected for in a darwinian sense to be good at spreading and difficult to shake off, and some people seem more susceptible than others. will the grandchildren of the worlds billions of christians really all be aetheist in just a few decades?

    Paxman meets Hitchins with cancer.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...night_Special/

    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; December 21st, 2011 at 01:42 PM.
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  13. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    I disagree; the internet is rife with superstition. Samthemule, quack science trinkets, ghosts, ufos, if anything this kind of new age style secular religion has been empowered by the net, as it allows beleivers to congregate and reinforce eachother.
    Theyre generally harmless though in the main.
    I just don't see the myriad of bullshit out there playing that large a part in how the internet influences society at large. Perhaps I'm too optimistic but I don't see the Internet aiding superstition more than it's aiding science and education.

    "I don't see much of today's "spirituality" being taken seriously, say, a century from now - but I do see it evolving into something else. I'd love to see what such rituals in a scientifically literate society might look like."

    interesting. most religions seem to have been selected for in a darwinian sense to be good at spreading and difficult to shake off, and some people seem more susceptible than others. will the grandchildren of the worlds billions of christians really all be aetheist in just a few decades?
    No, not at all - I just don't see them being taken seriously at large. They won't be gone but (hopefully) they will have become the world's laughing stock. I think "spirituality" might some day be vindicated from the bullshit we see today and encompass legitimately positive rituals and activities - spirituality that does not suffer the pretense of being supernatural.

    Brendan Noeth

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  14. #70
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    Beautiful!
    "On assignment in Palm Beach, Hitchens scored an invitation to dine at the town’s most exclusive, and allegedly anti-Semitic, country club. Though he admired Trotsky, truth be told Hitch revelled in the high life. But having discovered his own Jewish heritage late in life, he was hell-bent on making the most of it. After generous libations at the bar, Hitchens and a small party of friends, including his wife Carol Blue, were ceremoniously seated at a table in the midst of the stuffy dining room. Surrounded by billionaires politely nibbling at Crab Louis with their families, Hitch was presented with the establishment’s menu. There was a pause, as he scanned the entries. Then, at a volume designed to be heard on all eighteen holes of the adjoining golf course, Hitch handed back the menu to the waiter and boomed, “This won’t do. I NEED THE KOSHER MENU!”

    After the ensuing commotion, the member who had hosted Hitch was suspended, and a new club-house rule was passed: added to the list of social taboos from that day on was an absolute ban on journalists."
    From
    http://readersupportednews.org/off-s...72-focus-hitch

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  16. #71
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    well, i guess if i'd ever met hitchens, he would have demolished me... like others.
    or at least tried, which is actually a service: ripping off the layers of self-deception for someone, if they cannot do it for themselves.

    it seems that stripping down the protective layers of the ego is the key to spiritual experience, to living a good life, and not just think you are doing so.

    i remember reading somewhere hitchens said "if you gave him an enema you could bury him in a matchbox" (an enema is taken to relieve constipation. )
    now, i think maybe you all think this applies to me, that's the vibe i get when i post here, but i would like to remind you: all people are constantly developing, and capable of more than they might seem. if you all just believed what is presented at face value, then the sketchbook section would be very empty.

    here's a video i found too.

    as this discussion seems to be about religion now.




    Quote Originally Posted by Cam Sykes View Post
    I think deep down it's hard to admit that we don't have a soul... things not seen but known. Everyone expresses some sort of spirituality even if it's creativity through art or other forms of expression.
    yes, i think this is one of those things which is impossible to admit.

    i agree

    we do not have a soul

    we are a soul. if we had a soul, it would just be one more posession, that is precisely the point: not to take your "self" so seriously, and treat it as just another talisman, just another golden fleece. what you "have" is a body and time, and even those are just lent to you, for a purpose, by the thing for which we do not have many other words than "the most high" or... god.

    i know this is maybe twisting your point and your words... but hey, that can be fun sometimes too, haha.

    after all, what is philosophy but changing words? and their order.

    seeking after truth, is my answer, and that is what i believe to be the truth: we do not have a soul, we are one.

    ...
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  18. #73
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    IMO spirituality for most of the time is not seen for what it is and then judged by the wrong criteria.

    Spirituality is not about the human capacity to idealize and think reasoning abstract ideas like other sciences. It is about the human capacity to empathize with all things even in-animated objects and abstract ideas.

    That's a similar basis as crafts like storytelling and art, but they take it a step further. They try to know the root of this all-empathizing capacity of human with the hopeful goal of being fully in harmony with it. That state of being fully in the 'soul' would produce the ideal of all religion/spiritual system which is compassion and intimacy with all things.

    I don't know if that writing make any sense,,, in the end it's about the search for something that rings true for each individual.

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