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    For those who don't have that insane determination...

    Hey, denizens of CA. I've been stuck in the middle of a personal dilemma for quite some time now, and I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask and see if I get some answers. Maybe there are others who'd like to hear this, too...

    (Sorry in advance for the textwall.)



    All my life I've been heard encouragement-bordering-on-propaganda to "go for it [if it's something you love]". I love art and these are nice words, but they do nothing for people who don't have the burning passion or insane determination generally needed to succeed in competitive industries. I happen to fall in that category, and those words make me even more depressed. Unless my impressions are wrong, people who do have that "insane determination" are relatively few, and those who are successful enough to make a living in spite of not having that insane determination are good at settling for a stable and profitable, but otherwise undesirable career. (Or, of course, they're lucky.)

    I'm on the fence: I realize that I'm the kind of person who thinks of a simple, rote job as "peaceful" rather than "boring", am usually inclined towards a life of stability, and am very averse to risk. I am probably suited to sustain a 9-to-5 career with hobbies during the downtime. But at the same time, I'm disappointed that I'll be spending a good portion of my life doing something that's not intrinsically important to me. Plus, it really doesn't help that the only good words I've heard about this kind of lifestyle are "look at the monthly bills, and you'll be grateful you did"--to which I retort, "There's more to life than being practical. And no, 'the joy of raising a family' is not a valid answer." Nonetheless, it makes me feel like a sellout that I don't have the guts to go for something that I might or might not love enough to make a career out of.

    Now, I have two options:

    1) Go for art. I am confident in my potential to become a skilled enough artist. However, half of being an artist means being a businessperson and I do not, by any means, have business sense. And that's not even mentioning the competition out there, my general unwillingness to do small sidejobs, and my general reluctance to rely on something as risky as luck for success. I am fully aware of what it takes to become a successful artist, having lurked here for a long time. The question is whether I have it. And I know I can't find that out unless I try.

    2) Go for something stabler. But I need someone to tell me--so I don't feel like a miserable sellout--what is the merit of choosing this lifestyle, as opposed to someone who risks everything to turn passion into profession? Because I've heard that one too many times.




    I feel like I'm missing something that might be obvious, but I really don't know what it is. What do you guys say?

    EDIT: ...It just occurred to me that it might help if I actually uploaded some of my more recent work to my sketchbook. Will do that now.
    EDIT 2: Done.

    Last edited by Kuroyue; December 7th, 2011 at 11:33 PM.
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    Well i did had the same dilemna..im 20 so hahah better have it now than later trust me..and i was totally going for the stable life but soon i realise drawing was taking more and more place and i juste see that even if i went for 9 to 5 i will never be satisfy if i havent try to leave the artist life so . if u are sure you can be a good artist you dont have to fear any competition cause eventually ull have a job if u are good. and u can always come back and get a 9 to 5 job if things doesnt work out

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    As for something 'stabler' I was sent to engineering instead of art when I was very young (beginning high school age), and after 25 years in a career I hated, I can't find a decent job at it for at least couple of years now (recession).

    So, at the *cough* young age of 42 I've decided for screw it all, and go for art, which is what I always wanted to do. I'm already making close to the same money as I do doing engineering (business experience helps) and I'm just starting out in art.

    Earn a marketable skill that makes you happy (or happier then other choices). Long term career wise, you will do better doing something you like, then something you resent and are only doing for a paycheck. Even just some mild drive and passion is better then none.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ylaz View Post
    Well i did had the same dilemna..im 20 so hahah better have it now than later trust me..and i was totally going for the stable life but soon i realise drawing was taking more and more place and i juste see that even if i went for 9 to 5 i will never be satisfy if i havent try to leave the artist life so . if u are sure you can be a good artist you dont have to fear any competition cause eventually ull have a job if u are good. and u can always come back and get a 9 to 5 job if things doesnt work out
    Vice versa, it is also often said that you could fall back to artist any time you want, since it's not something you have to go to school for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ylaz View Post
    u can always come back and get a 9 to 5 job if things doesnt work out
    ...If you have a degree that gets you anywhere, that is. Otherwise, I am very very not keen on being a pizza delivery person...


    Quote Originally Posted by Ylaz View Post
    if u are sure you can be a good artist you dont have to fear any competition cause eventually ull have a job if u are good
    Maybe I should explain myself a bit more...I'm confident that I can become technically skilled enough, but there are a few fears I have:

    -Will I come to hate it?
    -Am I actually creative enough?
    -I am completely clueless about (and intimidated by) the actual job-searching process. Which is made worse by the fact that...
    -I have no business sense nor experience.

    So, uh, it's not that simple.

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    There are many contradicting information when it comes to doing what you love. Everyone chirps about doing what you love, how you should just go for it. Yet, no one really practices it. They go the safe route because they think, "I don't FEEL passionate about it, so I don't think I can succeed."

    Don't rely on how you feel, rely on what you have always wanted. No one is on fire for art 24/7. It is journey, you feel like stopping, and sometimes there are times you want to continue. And sometimes there are times you have no choice but to continue even though you want to quit.

    I am not good artist either. I don't "burn" for art either. But I believe I am improving. Really, it is not something I "feel", I just do because it's a habit. I do get tired, I do feel like quitting. But I see vast improvement since five years ago.


    "I am confident in my potential to become a skilled enough artist. However, half of being an artist means being a businessperson and I do not, by any means, have business sense."

    If you don't have business sense, then learn how to be a good businessman.

    "my general unwillingness to do small sidejobs,"
    "I am very very not keen on being a pizza delivery person"

    Then focus on being a good artist. I think you will have to take up side jobs and part time jobs though if you want to go the artist route. It doesn't matter if you like it or not, you do it because you need it to live.

    "and my general reluctance to rely on something as risky as luck for success."

    Well, you control your destiny based on what you're willing to try. You WILL fail many times as an artist, it IS risky, but you only lose hope if you quit.


    "Will I come to hate it?
    -Am I actually creative enough?
    -I am completely clueless about (and intimidated by) the actual job-searching process. Which is made worse by the fact that...
    -I have no business sense nor experience."

    Why are you asking about something you haven't even tried. We can't answer it for you. What do you want, stability or fulfillment? Only you can answer.

    You live one life. I wouldn't spend it doing things I don't love just because it's "practical" or what I ought to do. There is no point in living if it is to merely survive. I know many people with stable jobs who are still miserable and take antidepressants. But if you want a quieter life, why not? You're not sellout, you're just going for what you want. Artists are not any more admirable than anyone else.

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    If you can see yourself doing anything else, then do it. There's nothing ignoble about a stable, quite life.


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    If you don't feel much drive with art and you adverse to risk then maybe this career isn't for you. Being competitive and taking risks kind of come with the territory.

    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conniekat8 View Post
    Earn a marketable skill that makes you happy (or happier then other choices). Long term career wise, you will do better doing something you like, then something you resent and are only doing for a paycheck. Even just some mild drive and passion is better then none.
    I have a lot of other small humanity/arts-related hobbies and interests, none of them particularly stable nor profitable, but I am wondering whether I can turn the combination of those interests into a "marketable skill"...That's still a big "If", though, and I'm not sure if that's even less risky than doing art. Another downside of mine: all the subjects that lead to stereotypically profitable professions, like the sciences, are the same subjects I dislike. I am taking Intro to Business right now, just to try it out, and I hate it. Not sure if that's because I'm taking it online and there is an utter absence of actual teaching going on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Conniekat8 View Post
    I'm already making close to the same money as I do doing engineering (business experience helps) and I'm just starting out in art.
    Really? If you don't mind, can you tell me more about that?

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    A working class hero is something to be...

    There's this poem I came across that's about writing but I think it could translate into art as well:

    so you want to be a writer?
    by Charles Bukowski

    if it doesn't come bursting out of you
    in spite of everything,
    don't do it.
    unless it comes unasked out of your
    heart and your mind and your mouth
    and your gut,
    don't do it.
    if you have to sit for hours
    staring at your computer screen
    or hunched over your
    typewriter
    searching for words,
    don't do it.
    if you're doing it for money or
    fame,
    don't do it.
    if you're doing it because you want
    women in your bed,
    don't do it.
    if you have to sit there and
    rewrite it again and again,
    don't do it.
    if it's hard work just thinking about doing it,
    don't do it.
    if you're trying to write like somebody
    else,
    forget about it.


    if you have to wait for it to roar out of
    you,
    then wait patiently.
    if it never does roar out of you,
    do something else.

    if you first have to read it to your wife
    or your girlfriend or your boyfriend
    or your parents or to anybody at all,
    you're not ready.

    don't be like so many writers,
    don't be like so many thousands of
    people who call themselves writers,
    don't be dull and boring and
    pretentious, don't be consumed with self-
    love.
    the libraries of the world have
    yawned themselves to
    sleep
    over your kind.
    don't add to that.
    don't do it.
    unless it comes out of
    your soul like a rocket,
    unless being still would
    drive you to madness or
    suicide or murder,
    don't do it.
    unless the sun inside you is
    burning your gut,
    don't do it.

    when it is truly time,
    and if you have been chosen,
    it will do it by
    itself and it will keep on doing it
    until you die or it dies in you.

    there is no other way.

    and there never was.
    Basically, if you're one of those people who never really drew as a kid, and every time you go to make a piece of artwork it feels like a chore rather than something you really want to be doing, then find something else to do. Because if you don't like it at this point, then what makes you think that once you're a professional, doing it for all hours of every day, you'll enjoy it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.M. View Post
    I am not good artist either. I don't "burn" for art either. But I believe I am improving. Really, it is not something I "feel", I just do because it's a habit. I do get tired, I do feel like quitting. But I see vast improvement since five years ago.
    This sounds like me. I only do art maybe twice a week, usually many hours at a time, but I feel like I could develop the habit if doing it more often if I tried. I don't "burn" for art, but it is something that is so much a part of me that I can't imagine quitting permanently.


    Quote Originally Posted by D.M. View Post
    If you don't have business sense, then learn how to be a good businessman.
    Easier said than done, though I am open to the idea...Except I am not quite sure what this entails, other than the possibility of either taking some classes, or good ol' trial and error, but I am open to the idea...

    Quote Originally Posted by D.M. View Post
    Then focus on being a good artist. I think you will have to take up side jobs and part time jobs though if you want to go the artist route. It doesn't matter if you like it or not, you do it because you need it to live.
    Yeah, I know. Maybe I shouldn't have said that, because I think this is a hurdle I'll overcome in time anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Kobryn View Post
    Basically, if you're one of those people who never really drew as a kid, and every time you go to make a piece of artwork it feels like a chore rather than something you really want to be doing, then find something else to do. Because if you don't like it at this point, then what makes you think that once you're a professional, doing it for all hours of every day, you'll enjoy it?
    I suppose I'm fortunate, then, that I've been doing art for as long as I can remember. It's definitely not something I can quit, despite how passive I can be about it. I don't know a time when I haven't enjoyed it, and the thought of having the leisure to draw all day sounds tempting in theory. It's just the same ol' question of whether I enjoy it as a profession (which I know only I can answer).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    If you can see yourself doing anything else, then do it. There's nothing ignoble about a stable, quite life.
    And if you don't get married and have six kids, it can also leave plenty of time for art, without the pressure of having to produce to make a living.

    Another possibility is some sort of compromise like graphic design, which is artsy without requiring you to be Leonardo.

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    If you need to ask go for #2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blogmatix View Post
    And if you don't get married and have six kids, it can also leave plenty of time for art, without the pressure of having to produce to make a living.

    Another possibility is some sort of compromise like graphic design, which is artsy without requiring you to be Leonardo.
    There's a weird bigotry from fine artists and illustrators towards graphic designers, I think. They still do some impressive work that requires a very developed skill set, it's just a different skill set than our own.

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    I rarely wait for emotions or inspiration to take over to do something. If it gives me something to do or a sense of purpose, a sense of progressing, then I do it. Even if I feel like I am only drawing out shit, I still draw because it instilled the drawing habit in me.

    "but it is something that is so much a part of me"

    That says something. You don't have to be like those guys who never bath, never eat, and almost faint while drawing or working because they have been up doing it for days. Some people do that, and some don't. But in the end it's mostly habit of actually getting things done and being diligent. You don't feel it. You just do it, and that is what actually helps you become better.
    Go at your own flow and pace, just don't procrastinate.

    Whether artist, doctor, carpenter, you're going to be able to market yourself anyway. If you're a doctor, clients won't just come to you just because of your Ph.D. Even as doctor, you have to reach out. Stable jobs are stable because once you get set up, it's often in-demand. But in order to start it and even grow it, you still need business sense.
    Every job requires business sense, even ragtag jobs like babysitting or mowing someone's lawn. Some people take classes to learn business sense, some just use Google, and some just learn the game through hand on experience and common sense. I am not much of a business person myself but from people I've seen, that's how it was. Look at other successful people and copy their tactics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.M. View Post
    But in the end it's mostly habit of actually getting things done and being diligent. You don't feel it. You just do it, and that is what actually helps you become better.
    Go at your own flow and pace, just don't procrastinate.
    Thanks, that's good to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by D.M. View Post
    Whether artist, doctor, carpenter, you're going to be able to market yourself anyway. If you're a doctor, clients won't just come to you just because of your Ph.D. Even as doctor, you have to reach out. Stable jobs are stable because once you get set up, it's often in-demand. But in order to start it and even grow it, you still need business sense.
    Every job requires business sense, even ragtag jobs like babysitting or mowing someone's lawn. Some people take classes to learn business sense, some just use Google, and some just learn the game through hand on experience and common sense. I am not much of a business person myself but from people I've seen, that's how it was. Look at other successful people and copy their tactics.

    ...Now that I seriously think about it, part of my "not being determined enough" is just me procrastinating because of my fear of business. If I knew the nitty-gritty details of marketing, self-promotion, and job-searching, I'd probably be able to make a better-informed decision.

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    Yes, business can be daunting but don't feel like you need to swallow it all at once. I learn at my own pace, even though I am slow. But I am steadily getting there.

    I've heard plenty stories of doctors and other medical/science related people not having jobs for years because they were very good academically, they were book smart, scored well in exams, did well during internships, but once they had to find things for themselves and reach into the market, they weren't able to because medical facts were all they learned. That is why most (successful) doctors didn't just study meds, they studied business or was already good at business in other jobs prior to medical school.

    Art isn't actually that bad. Being a doctor is truly the hardest, yet so many think it's the most practical to go into meds despite the HUGE commitment and student loans. I think it's much easier to sell art than your skills in medical advice and surgery, for example. Artistic skill is straight forward and your potential client can just see for themselves what they will be paying for. But being a successful doctor is built on reputation and connection. Nobody wants to risk getting killed by a newbie surgeon who only just set up his own clinic. But art is more straight forward. Have a good portfolio, decent social skills, and good work ethics. Straight forward.

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    However, half of being an artist means being a businessperson and I do not, by any means, have business sense. And that's not even mentioning the competition out there, my general unwillingness to do small sidejobs, and my general reluctance to rely on something as risky as luck for success.
    I think you should read the book "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. It discusses many factors in the making of a successful person. You'll find that they are many and varied, but most importantly, they are rarely what you would expect. You don't have to rely on luck. Hardly anyone does. You just might find out that you have some odd skill, quirk, ability, or what-have-you that enables you to become successful in your own eyes.

    Being a good business person would help you tremendously, yes. But that hardly keeps you from being a candidate for succeeding on your own. There are tons of sources for you to start learning about business, and they don't have to be classes (as you can't learn everything from class, sometimes you just have to go out and do it).

    The question is whether I have it. And I know I can't find that out unless I try.
    This might sound a bit harsh, but it sounds like you are very afraid to just TRY something. If this is the truth, then you may not have what it takes. You should fear failing when you KNOW that something significant blocks your way, and you might not have the resources to deal with it. At this point in time, you are only fearing that there might be problems you will have to deal with, and maybe this is why you don't have good business sense

    Now, if you want to go for it, it doesn't mean you have to quit your day job tomorrow and try to find an art position to conquer. If you are currently in a stable situation (which is what it sounds like), then take your time and make a nice portfolio. Apply to a few *entry-level* positions at companies that interest you. I starred entry-level because lots of people make mistakes like this:

    "I love art and I love video games, so I'm going to apply to Blizzard Entertainment because I love their games!"

    Then, they get upset when they didn't get into Blizzard, or Valve, or Bioware (all of which are AAA title developers, if you didn't know). So why did this happen? They had such unrealistic expectations. A fresh-out-college ANYTHING, be it artist, programmer, or whatever, will have a VERY hard time getting these positions. People work for years and years just to work at these companies.

    Now, when you've made your portfolio and picked companies of various tiers (like AAA-tier, mid-tier, and startup companies - try to spread it out), you can apply and see where you get in. No matter where you land, don't feel discouraged. This is your chance to find out if you like being an artist enough to do it as a full time job. If you love it, then great! If not, you can quit and go back to being in whatever stable job you had before.

    I hope this helps and don't come off as too aggressive. You don't have to have a burning passion, but you do have to do a bit of work, you have to be realistic, and above all you have to TRY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by w00tf0rfr00t View Post
    I think you should read the book "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. It discusses many factors in the making of a successful person. You'll find that they are many and varied, but most importantly, they are rarely what you would expect. You don't have to rely on luck. Hardly anyone does. You just might find out that you have some odd skill, quirk, ability, or what-have-you that enables you to become successful in your own eyes.

    Being a good business person would help you tremendously, yes. But that hardly keeps you from being a candidate for succeeding on your own. There are tons of sources for you to start learning about business, and they don't have to be classes (as you can't learn everything from class, sometimes you just have to go out and do it).



    This might sound a bit harsh, but it sounds like you are very afraid to just TRY something. If this is the truth, then you may not have what it takes. You should fear failing when you KNOW that something significant blocks your way, and you might not have the resources to deal with it. At this point in time, you are only fearing that there might be problems you will have to deal with, and maybe this is why you don't have good business sense

    Now, if you want to go for it, it doesn't mean you have to quit your day job tomorrow and try to find an art position to conquer. If you are currently in a stable situation (which is what it sounds like), then take your time and make a nice portfolio. Apply to a few *entry-level* positions at companies that interest you. I starred entry-level because lots of people make mistakes like this:

    "I love art and I love video games, so I'm going to apply to Blizzard Entertainment because I love their games!"

    Then, they get upset when they didn't get into Blizzard, or Valve, or Bioware (all of which are AAA title developers, if you didn't know). So why did this happen? They had such unrealistic expectations. A fresh-out-college ANYTHING, be it artist, programmer, or whatever, will have a VERY hard time getting these positions. People work for years and years just to work at these companies.

    Now, when you've made your portfolio and picked companies of various tiers (like AAA-tier, mid-tier, and startup companies - try to spread it out), you can apply and see where you get in. No matter where you land, don't feel discouraged. This is your chance to find out if you like being an artist enough to do it as a full time job. If you love it, then great! If not, you can quit and go back to being in whatever stable job you had before.

    I hope this helps and don't come off as too aggressive. You don't have to have a burning passion, but you do have to do a bit of work, you have to be realistic, and above all you have to TRY.
    Will check out that book.


    ...Well! You've hit the nail on the head. Indeed, one of my biggest things is being afraid to try. Regarding your advice on entry-level positions and realistic expectations, though, that is
    exactly the sort of thing I am(was?) hypothetically planning for. I don't have a dream job at so-and-so famous company/studio, or any other specific high expectations. I guess my goal is to "do well enough on a consistent basis" and "having a job that is fairly enjoyable". I worry, though, that that might not be a good mindset to have in the art industry... Even if I do the whole "aim high and have low expectations" thing.

    Thanks for your advice!

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    I worry, though, that that might not be a good mindset to have in the art industry...
    Well then, I think the problem here isn't that you have high expectations for yourself, but you seem to have them for "the industry" as if all of the companies act in the same manner. There are plenty of smaller companies (like startups) that don't expect to hire the next brilliant artist of the decade. Keep in mind that a job there isn't as stable as a well-established company, but the positions are easier to land, and in my opinion, they are great places to work because the atmosphere is usually more casual and how you work is often more flexible.

    Side note: I realize that my suggestion for Outliers might be a bit misleading. It is not a book on how to become successful, but it is very interesting none-the-less.

    Happy job hunting

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    Psychologists would define you as a person with a low need for achievement (abb. n Ach), and by that they mean you are motivated more by the fear of failure than by the hope of success.

    As Steve Jobs put it somewhere along the lines, don't worry where you will end up, just keep doing what you do and know you will end up somewhere.

    You also want to ask yourself, is art the only thing you want to do with the one life you have? You have to determine your life goal; what you want to complete before you die.

    Insane determination is usually prodded by something personal. Stephen Hawking was not so much a genius or anywhere near smart until he became paraplegic, which gave him the insane determination for science. You're not born with insane determination to become an artist, there is always an influence that causes this insane determination during the course of one's life.

    And what do you mean by "business sense"?

    Last edited by Vay; December 7th, 2011 at 09:10 AM.
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    I must admit that I enjoyed drawing when I was young and in college but my passion didn't just drop from the sky. Passion developed from doing and success.

    I was one who hedged his bets. I did visual communications with an emphasis in illustration and rigorous training in graphic design. Playing a lot in college slowed my development. I graduated and worked as a designer, doing some illustration, and eventually as an art director. During this time I had enough discipline to come home and work hard at night most nights even if it was only a few minutes here an there. I got good enough that I made it into a grad painting program because I had some experience with teaching and loved it. Kept working at my day job, to support a family of five, even during grad school. Lost a lot of hair and sleep. But what happened was that flame of desire became a burning passion. As I got better that fire only grew.

    The point of this long, boring narrative is that people enter the field in different ways. I suppose I am not one of those jump in adventurous types. Even now I teach so that security is there. If I had not had a family and fanned that flame harder when I was young I might be a lot further along than I am now. I always knew I would be doing something in the visual arts but the "I have to do it or die" passion didn't come all at once, it grew with time.

    Now I just can't stop and would rather be in my studio than literally anywhere in the world. I suppose if I am honest that "I can't really imagine doing anything else" cell has always been there tugging at me but it needed some nurturing. Life is different for every person.

    The one sure thing about this visual arts thing is that the only way to do it well is to work as harder or harder than everyone else who does it well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroyue View Post
    -Will I come to hate it?
    Maybe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroyue View Post
    -Am I actually creative enough?
    You say that like you have some kind of creativity tank and you can only fill it up to a certain point. Putting ideas together is a skill you can get better at. Do you plan to work on your creativity until you are creative enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroyue View Post
    -I am completely clueless about (and intimidated by) the actual job-searching process. Which is made worse by the fact that...
    -I have no business sense nor experience.
    There was a point at which you couldn't walk either. Good thing we don't do a lot of thinking as babies 'cause we'd never get beyond lying around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroyue View Post
    So, uh, it's not that simple.
    Sure it is. Life is full of things that you've never done before that you're going to have to suck up and do. Even if you choose the stable job it's not like one is going to be handed to you. Even if it is that easy nobody's going to give you a course on how to deal with lawyers, contractors, the guy that plowed into the back of your car while you were minding your business at a red light, your spouse or anything else that comes up. You are heading off into a world where nothing will be like you expect. Literally. Art school won't be like you expect, drawing for clients won't be like you expect, a day job won't be like you expect, nothing. You have no clue how it's going to be.

    And you're just going to get over it because you have no other choice.

    At some point you get booted out to make your own decisions and a lot of mistakes and life goes on. So y'know... just stop worrying about it. When the time comes you'll make a decision and if you don't like it then maybe in another few years you'll make a different decision. It's not like they cut off your artistic ability if you choose wrong. Try to not load yourself down with thousands of dollars of debt, though, because that sucks.

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    JeffX99 is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    Bill stole his post from my websit bio...er, I mean, "ditto".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Kobryn View Post
    There's a weird bigotry from fine artists and illustrators towards graphic designers, I think. They still do some impressive work that requires a very developed skill set, it's just a different skill set than our own.
    Yeah, I should say I meant no disrespect - graphic designer sure need an eye for design and, nowadays, a very broad knowledge of all manner of software. But it is an option, I think, for people who like artsy, creative pursuits but not necessarily drawing or painting.

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    OmenSpirits is offline Commercial-Illustrator in-training, NOT an artist. Level 13 Gladiator: Retiarius
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    You can use painting & illustration in graphic design.

    I used to have that common perception of GD when I was in college, until I studied it on my own and gained GD as an asset to my skillset.

    I like GD. It's a very good tool to have and it helps in one's other pursuits.

    Last edited by OmenSpirits; December 17th, 2011 at 12:17 AM.
    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    Bill stole his post from my websit bio...er, I mean, "ditto".
    Well you weren't posting it. Someone had to.

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    Similar stories here, good reads. I'm in a stage where I'm working as a graphic designer, but when I was a kid I always wanted to become an illustrator. Since I was young I knew that I had to follow the path of an artsy person, and I'm now 24 and have worked on the graphic design field for 2 years now.
    I'm a very lazy person, and don't seem to find long term goals. I always wanted to draw more but preferred to play football or megadrive.

    The thing is, while I'm still searching and maturing about following a different path, I don't worry about it like I did before. If I need to work as a graphic designer for 7 years until I sort everything out, so be it. I like graphic design. But like bcarman, I still feel the calling and maybe some day I will change in a way were illustration becomes a valid option to follow. Until then, I will continue to search and, above all, don't forget to have a good life.

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    All my life I've been heard encouragement-bordering-on-propaganda to "go for it [if it's something you love]". I love art and these are nice words, but they do nothing for people who don't have the burning passion or insane determination generally needed to succeed in competitive industries. I happen to fall in that category, and those words make me even more depressed.
    I don't understand why you get depressed at something that you don't have a passion for?

    For example, I don't care about sports all all. But I don't say "Man, I am so depressed that I am not excited about the big game next week".

    Why would you ever want to make a living at something that doesn't consume you? One thing people often forget is that ITS OKAY TO HAVE A HOBBY. If you don't have the fire to pursue art forever, then just draw and doodle and paint whatever interests you but just for fun. No one says that when you put the pencil to the paper that you are signing a pact with the devil that says "YOU MUST MAKE MONEY AT THIS OR DIE".

    In short, it may depress you that people say "just keep working at it!", but that is basically their way of saying "You don't look serious enough about it for me to really give you a better answer", you know? So unfortunately, all anyone can really say to you is, in fact, "If you were meant to do this forever, you'll know". If you showed the fire and passion of an artist that is on the move to make a career of it, I guarantee at least a few people would notice that passion and would part oceans to help you where they could.

    So the your choice is to find something that you DO have passion for and go after that career or take the safe route. Both are fine, but we cant decide that for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blogmatix View Post
    Another possibility is some sort of compromise like graphic design, which is artsy without requiring you to be Leonardo.
    Uh, being a neurosurgeon doesn't require being Leonardo either. If you can't find the gumption to pursue a field you're genuinely interested in, pursuing an extremely competitive field for which you'll need to develop an entirely different set of skills to compete in isn't much of a compromise...

    And here's my sketchbook. Help me out with some c&c?
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