Which to buy 21 or 24HD

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  1. #1
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    Which to buy 21 or 24HD

    I have had no luck finding a 24HD but I have seen a few 21s popping up here and there; new. I am dying to get one.
    Anyone have experience with both? I was wondering if the 24 was worth the money. sure it's got 3" more space widthwise, but for the difference in money, is it worth it?
    http://www.wacom.com/en/Products/Cin...%20Models.aspx
    Most of the specs are identical. Sure the stand on the 24 is cool, but is the responsiveness better or the color, drawing lines or coloring easier?
    Anyone have some experience they can share?

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  3. #2
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    I heard the art pen is having issues with the 24 so I am waiting a bit until that is resolved or not. Just my thoughts being 1st gen and all.

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    Yeah, but aside from that, what performance difference is there? screen the same?

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    I don't have either the 21 or 24....but both use Intuos 4 Tech. Maybe the screen might feel a little different if they used a different glass of something, but the only real difference is the extra three inches. The digitizer and pens should function exactly the same on either Cintiq.

    Beyond the extra three inches, and the extra 25 some-odd pounds for the cooler stand, the only real make or break difference is that they improved the color gamut. I know alot of artists complained about the 21 inch model because they couldn't properly color calibrate it. In Wacoms advertising of the 24 inch model, the specifically mention how the 24 incher can be calibrated.

    Also, its really minor, but where as the Cintiq 21 is a meager 200 nits of brightness, the actually lowered the Brightness on the 24 inch to 190 nits. Its a very small difference that most wouldn't notice, especially if you work in a darker room, but if you work in a room that gets alot of daylight....lets just say nits are very important. I think its kind of laughable that something as expensive as a Cintiq isn't at least 400 nits.

    Last edited by darkmagistric; December 1st, 2011 at 01:20 AM.
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    Yeah I thought it strange when I saw this:
    Luminance 24"--190 cd/m2 21"--200 cd/m2 Maybe it got too hot at 400 or the glass warped?
    There are only a few difference in the two monitors. I REALLY like that stand on the 24, but I don't know that I can justify half a grand for it. Plus 6" more inches of deskspace lost...

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    It doubt it would be because of heat. My current Tablet PC is 400 nits and the screen never gets hot to the point where I would lower the screen brightness. While some screens and monitors do get warm/hot, If the dimmness was deliberate for heat concerns...thats really just poor engineering. If it was the thinness of a Macbook Air, I could understand that, but given how thick the Cintiqs are, there is no reason they couldn't rig it cooler. Ditto with the glass warping. Most desktop monitors range from 300 to 600 nits, and some manufactures like Panasonic with their toughbook line have displays that can hit 1000 nits. Less then 200 for a screen designed for Artists is downright pathetic. I was thinking maybe it was a precaution for Eye-strain of the user, since it is a pretty big display, but thats never an issue with Tablet PCs which are used in a pretty simmilar fashion as far as how close your eyes are to the screen.

    Last edited by darkmagistric; December 1st, 2011 at 01:31 PM.
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    The Cintiq 24HD monitor is a considerable improvement from the 21 screen. Here you can find a short review that I made: http://managingcolors.blogspot.com/2...ation-and.html

    I have tried 2 different version of the 21” Cintiq (one with the Intuos 3 and one with the Intuos 4 technology) and I had some difficulties in getting accurate shadow reproduction. Please notice that to achieve good performance from a monitor (both a 100$ and an 10000$ one) you will need an hardware (spectrophotomer or colorimeter) to properly calibrate and make a profile for your screen.

    The ArtPen issue is a big issue but Wacom is working to fix it. If you are an ArtPen user, than maybe the 21 is the way to go. For what I understood maybe an hardware change is needed to have a functional ArtPen on the Cintiq 24HD. Maybe they will change the ArtPen or the Cintiq 24HD. I think that this issue will hardly be fixed with new drivers (new releases didn’t fix anything).

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    Another thought on the differences between the two, with the base of the 24HD being as flexible as it is, you basically get a "standing desk" when you buy it. I'm still only on my 2nd day with mine but I've spent over half the time standing, with the screen raised to full height & it's great. When I get tired, I just move it to a flatter position & have a seat.

    This, in fact, might be one of the best things about it for me so far.

    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VitOne View Post
    The Cintiq 24HD monitor is a considerable improvement from the 21 screen. Here you can find a short review that I made: http://managingcolors.blogspot.com/2...ation-and.html
    I'm a little concerned with this:
    2) Low perceived resolution. Not only because of the low pixel density, but also because of the matte finish that seem to “soften” a little bit too much everything.

    I do a lot of fine retouching on photos and logos, is it going to bug me? I am used to a crisp monitor. I wonder if there's a way to let me see it. a photo wouldn't work, I don't think.

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    When I retouch pictures I don’t get too much close to the screen, depending on the screen resolution. But when I draw sometimes I tend to get close to the screen and 1920x1200 on a 24” is not enough to do this. You can clearly see the pixels if you get close to the screen with your eyes. How much close? As close as I would do with a drawing table.

    If possible try the Cintiq 24HD, otherwise you can have an idea of what 1920x1200 resolution on a 24” screen means using another 24” screen with the same resolution (notice that the “matte” and antiglare finishing of the 24HD can change the way pixel are perceived).

    1920x1200 resolution means 2,3Mpixell: for a 24” display is a very low resolution. This link can help: http://www.scantips.com/no72dpi.html you have only about 90 pixel/inch. A good display that is used with eyes close to it (depending on how close your eyes are to the screen) should have 200 or more (300 is optimal) pixel/inch. Just to make an example the iPhone 4s screen has more than 300 pixel/inch.

    You can also use a calculator like this: http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html

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    I own both the Cintiq24 and the Cintiq21 (older version). The Cintiq24 is a step up in the screen, as I find it both brighter and better colour than the older Cintiq21UX but the resolution (visually, no matter what the specs say) is about the same. I wouldn't worry about fussiness, cause while it might not have the highest res it is perfectly fine. I got my Cintiq24 in Europe where there was no matte / antiglare option - I haven't the foggiest which I have - I tend to think the antiglare.. I would have probably opted for a matte though.

    However I got it basically for the bigger screen. You really don't notice the difference between the sensitivity (ie between Inutos4 and Intuos3 levels). I also notice about the same gap difference between the pen on the glass and the actual cursor.

    I have previously preferred the plastic pen nib, which did scratch the old Cintiq21 and so I got a screen protector from Nushield to stop that, which worked perfectly fine and I was happy with it. I did not want to test out the plastic nib on my new Cintiq24 while I waited for the screen protector, so switched to the felt nib (which is fine on the Cintiq, but set my teeth on edge at first on the Intuos4 like chalk on a blackboard). However I've gotten used to the felt nib now, and the screen protector does alter the screen colour marginally, so I've stuck with the felt nib (with no scratches) and haven't applied the protector.

    Re heat, the Cintiq21 gets very warm. Not roasting and quite nice on a cold winters day, but not what you want in the middle of summer. The Cintiq24 gets only a tiny bit warm in comparison. You'd want to wear a hand protector anyway, just to keep the screen clean from a sweaty hand. You can buy one ready made, but I just wear a conservators thin cotton glove with the fingers chopped off at the first knuckle.

    I have noticed some issues with the Pen on the Cintiq24. This is mainly around alt/click colour selection. For instance I click on the colour I want to select, but the minute movement of the nib as I lift off shifts the selection to the surrounding pixels. This isn't too bad on the normal Pen, but is very noticeable and annoying on the Art Pen where it's very hard to select the colour you want without it zooming off and selecting something else. It never happened on the Cintiq21.

    So the Cintiq24 is the better screen, but the Cintiq21 is still a very good option.

    Last edited by fes; December 5th, 2011 at 02:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VitOne View Post
    When I retouch pictures I don’t get too much close to the screen, depending on the screen resolution. But when I draw sometimes I tend to get close to the screen and 1920x1200 on a 24” is not enough to do this. You can clearly see the pixels if you get close to the screen with your eyes. How much close? As close as I would do with a drawing table.
    I guess what I'm trying to find out is, if the cintiq is equal to or better than my
    L226WTQ 22" monitor
    Resolution: 1680 x 1050 @ 60 Hz
    Pixel Depth: 32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)
    I know it's not a great monitor, but it gets the work done and makes me money. If a cintiq is going to replace it, it has to at LEAST do what my 150 dollar monitor can. I have to be able to use it the same way, get decent gradations, shadows, gamut, etc. Sounds like it'd be right there.
    There are tons of videos out there, but none get up in it like you do in real life. you know, show how the color blending works with a brush in photoshop. all the tutorials are quick broad sketches. I'd like to see one up close when someone is putting in the tight detail.

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    I have an NEC PA241W (which is at the higher end of mid range monitors) which is my best monitor, a Samsung SyncMaster 244T monitor (mid range) and a Dell 19" (low/mid range monitor). The smaller Dell and Cintiq21 are both 1600x1200 and the others are 1920x1200 native res. I am a illustrator for a living and am happy to do all my work on my Cintiq (now the 24 but previously the 21). I have no problem with the resolution/gamut. I'd say better gamut on the 24, but the 21 was fine enough. Calibrate it (I colour calibrate all my monitors with the Spyder3Elite system) if you are worried.

    If you can, get a dual DVI port graphics card, then run both monitors, so you can be happy and check the colours etc.

    Note: When I got my first Cintiq21 it took me two weeks to get used to it. You need to expect that amount of time. It has nothing to do with the colour/res etc, it has to do with the cursor/nib offset - with paper you are used to looking at the nib and so your eye wants to watch the nib (and so it sees the space between it and the actual point your touching), not the cursor. After a while you ignore the nib and look at the cursor. It's very noticeable to you at first, but then you forget it and I find hand/eye co-ordination much better than with an intuos. Persist.

    Last edited by fes; December 9th, 2011 at 01:54 PM.
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  16. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by fes View Post
    After a while you ignore the nib and look at the cursor. It's very noticeable to you at first, but then you forget it and I find hand/eye co-ordination much better than with an intuos. Persist.
    I figured that'd be the case. I read several times about the thickness of the glass or whatever. As long as I'm in the ballpark, it's gotta be better than using a mouse or a tablet. I get used to the disconnect of the tablet some, but it's just not the same as drawing on the monitor would be! Plus the speed boost it'd give would be awesome! I can't wait. Maczones says they will be getting 100 units in on the 19th. If they're not lying and the shipment comes, I'll be a happy camper.

    Thanks so much!

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    Get the 24hd! Go through Tekserve to order, they have way cheaper shipping rates. They are located in NYC, I live in FL, 2 day air was $175 compared to some of the other 24HD dealers that had warehouses closer to me, and wanted to charge almost double for shipping.

    Just to be safe though, I'd call a few and ask what they charge for shipping.. Also, I liked Tekserve because they were not pushy, and they had like 20 in stock.

    Bottom line though, GET THE 24HD!

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    Speaking of tekserve, the past two weekends I was in NYC, and they had the Cintiq. 24 on demo. I hijacked it for a few hours.........omg I want one so bad. The stand and how you can adjust it rocks....and having such a big working area felt so nice. They used to have the 21 incher on demo, but no longer so I couldn't try both at the same time. But if I ever take the plundge, im going for the 24HD. Just wish I was more productive at home, if I did get it, it would collect so much dust.

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