What does "Drawing is the probity of art" mean?
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  1. #1
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    What does "Drawing is the probity of art" mean?

    Sketchbook

    "Beliefs are rules for action"
    "Knowledge is proven in action."
    "It's use is it's meaning."
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    Me first!

    It is the fundamental principle by which all the elements of picture making are marshaled, governed, ordered, organised and therefore expressed.

    From Gegarin's point of view
    http://www.chrisbennettartist.co.uk/
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    kev ferrara is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    Drawing is a method of investigation... a method of investigating the visual facts of a subject. The end result of this investigation should be a work that has mimetic integrity. Having integrity in one's work is honorable, according to the ideology of art suggested by the quote.

    At least Icarus tried!


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    Michelangelo said that drawing is the master skill that underlies all the others...oe something like that. I know I read that once, and I've driven myself nuts trying to find the quote again.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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    Kev said it pretty well.

    Its a tricky quote because the word "probity" isnt commonly used these days. But it means "integrity, honesty, strong moral principles". So I think Ingres' meaning was something like "Drawing is what keeps art honest"

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    I have heard this quote misused by teachers and students over the years. The worst was that the drawing must be right or the painting will fail.

    Well said kev. And I would go further and say that mimesis in the hands of a master can achieve reality. Not naturalism or representationalism but realism as it should be defined.

    Honesty and integrity at the core of drawing. The belief that drawing is more than replicating but a route for question and thought and maybe discovery.

    In fact over the years I have been more interested in the drawings of Ingres than the paintings and that's saying a lot because I really enjoy his paintings. Lines and colors, a great blog, is where I learned of a great place to see his drawings:http://www.themorgan.org/collections...es/default.asp.
    You can get all close up and see his beautiful marks and velvet touch.

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    Sounds like, OMG, I learned a new word that isn't used very much, so I can apply it to another rather undefinable concept, and sound veeewy veeewy smaawt!

    [kitty ducks and runs]

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    Don't forget that Ingres was French.


    "Le dessin est la probité de l'art."

    The full translated quote goes something like this: 'Drawing is the probity of art. To draw does not mean simply to reproduce contours; drawing does not consist merely of line: drawing is also expression, the inner form, the plane, modeling. See what remains after that.'

    I can't find a translation of the whole quote and I have no idea whether the French I've just quoted is not from the direct source anyway.

    Last edited by Chris Bennett; November 22nd, 2011 at 05:37 AM.
    From Gegarin's point of view
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    Sounds like, OMG, I learned a new word that isn't used very much, so I can apply it to another rather undefinable concept, and sound veeewy veeewy smaawt!
    Or it sounds like sometimes its just fun to study a little art history and imagine what they were thinking back the when they did their stuff. There are discussions when you can play the condescending role but I don't think this is the one.

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    Thanks Chris, I just found the full quote from your tidbit. (I didn't know probité anymore than I knew probity though.)
    "Le dessin est la probité de l'art.
    Dessiner ne veut pas dire simplement reproduire des contours ; le dessin ne consiste pas simplement dans le trait : le dessin c'est encore l'expression, la forme intérieure, le plan, le modèle.
    Voyez ce qui reste après cela ! Le dessin comprend les trois quarts et demi de ce qui constitue la peinture. Si j'avais à mettre une enseigne au-dessus de ma porte, j'écrirais: École de dessin, et je suis sur que je ferais des peintres..."
    Basically:
    Drawing doesn't mean simply reproducing the outline; the drawing doesn't only consist of the line : the drawing is also the expression, the inside shape, the plan, the modeling (I not sure if he means volume, or model as a person here.)

    See what's left after that! Drawing includes 3 fourth and a half of what makes a painting. If I had to put a sign over my door, I would write:"Drawing school" and I'm sure I would train painters.


    Last edited by Qitsune; November 22nd, 2011 at 06:22 PM. Reason: Edited for better wording of the translation.
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    Ingres apparently said very funny things, I found this page of quotations. My favorite:
    A photograph is better than a drawing, but we must not say it.
    And:
    The best way to possess a woman is still to paint her.
    In this case possess can be interpreted as owning or as having congress with.

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    Wow! I wonder how many photos Ingres saw in his life?

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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    So it was an abstruse way of saying that to draw is to make a study.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qitsune View Post
    Ingres apparently said very funny things, I found this page of quotations. My favorite:

    And:

    In this case possess can be interpreted as owning or as having congress with.
    I once read a funny story about Ingres but I don't know if it's true or not. Apparently his wife would shield his eyes from ugly people and things when they were on the street. Has anyone else heard about this?

    Sketchbook

    "Beliefs are rules for action"
    "Knowledge is proven in action."
    "It's use is it's meaning."
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  21. #14
    kev ferrara is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    Quote Originally Posted by armando View Post
    So it was an abstruse way of saying that to draw is to make a study.
    No, but abstruse is an abstruse way of saying abstruse.

    The quote implies that to draw is a form of study or investigation. The quote means that the investigation that is drawing is the way to have integrity in your art.

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

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    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
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