Identifying ways of making global capitalism more stable

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  1. #1
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    Identifying ways of making global capitalism more stable

    Here's a new reality-based model of the companies that run the global economy, illustrating the core of the problems we are experiencing now. The study is being done by a company out of Zurich and is set to be published in PLoS One, (although the article is not clear when it will be published) Dr. James B. Glattfelder appears to be spearheading the effort. A list of his publications include:


    The network of global corporate control; S. Vitali, J.B. Glattfelder, S. Battiston; 2011

    Backbone of complex networks of corporations: The flow of control; J.B. Glattfelder, S. Battiston; Phys. Rev. E 80, 1 (2009)

    An extensive set of scaling laws and the FX coastline; J.B. Glattfelder, A. Dupuis, R.B. Olsen; 2008

    Link to the article:

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/...the-world.html

    Excerpt:

    AS PROTESTS against financial power sweep the world this week, science may have confirmed the protesters' worst fears. An analysis of the relationships between 43,000 transnational corporations has identified a relatively small group of companies, mainly banks, with disproportionate power over the global economy.
    [...]

    When the team further untangled the web of ownership, it found much of it tracked back to a "super-entity" of 147 even more tightly knit companies - all of their ownership was held by other members of the super-entity - that controlled 40 per cent of the total wealth in the network. "In effect, less than 1 per cent of the companies were able to control 40 per cent of the entire network," says Glattfelder. Most were financial institutions. The top 20 included Barclays Bank, JPMorgan Chase & Co, and The Goldman Sachs Group.


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    in germany people talk about "real politik", this basically means things like: no currency speculation, currency matched with land/gold/resource/food and a flat 20% tax rate for all
    i believe this would lead to more stability.

    (HURRAY, OR, TO QUOTE SHAKESPEARE: "FIRST THING WE DO, LETS KILL ALL THE LAWYERS!" 80% of the world's tax laws are written on german tax, lol)

    apart from that, end the fed, end the central banking system of the world, change the course, vision and aims of the "new world order" (a new one is needed, but the new one mentioned in the georgia guidestones & by bush, blair, brown, pope, and so on, just sounds like a crappy rehash of the old).

    More stability = shrink countries instead of constantly expanding them.

    self sufficiency.

    ...
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    We need to start carrying these around and stop trusting invisible money.
    Identifying ways of making global capitalism more stable

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    The engine of dynamism is creativity, not productivity (which is a byproduct of creativity). Creativity is inherently destabilizing. You cannot stabilize dynamism if you want it to stay dynamic. Once economies are no longer dynamic, they stagnate. Meanwhile the population growth continues to rise. This is a recipe for disaster...

    The question is really, how can creativity be enhanced in the most economic sectors at once. The answer to that question is strong science and entrepreneurial education, the ability to prosper by one's own actions, and the free flow of investment capital. People who spend a lot of time on the internet learning effective means of anti-capitalist complaining are parasitic upon the economic daring of others. What is the ideal world they are dreaming of exactly? Some place where everybody who likes to read books and the interwebz gets to sit around getting paid to pretend to be intelligent? While other people tend to their basic needs?

    Anti-capitalists should be forced to be farmers. A few years of that and they'd be cured of their insulated foolishness.

    <whistles tunelessly, departs...>

    At least Icarus tried!


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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    The engine of dynamism is creativity, not productivity (which is a byproduct of creativity). Creativity is inherently destabilizing. You cannot stabilize dynamism if you want it to stay dynamic. Once economies are no longer dynamic, they stagnate. Meanwhile the population growth continues to rise. This is a recipe for disaster...

    The question is really, how can creativity be enhanced in the most economic sectors at once. The answer to that question is strong science and entrepreneurial education, the ability to prosper by one's own actions, and the free flow of investment capital. People who spend a lot of time on the internet learning effective means of anti-capitalist complaining are parasitic upon the economic daring of others. What is the ideal world they are dreaming of exactly? Some place where everybody who likes to read books and the interwebz gets to sit around getting paid to pretend to be intelligent? While other people tend to their basic needs?

    Anti-capitalists should be forced to be farmers. A few years of that and they'd be cured of their insulated foolishness.

    <whistles tunelessly, departs...>
    interesting insights, got any proof? i could say creativity is inherintly stabilizing; it does away with the old instability,
    and for a time there is instability, and then there is new and greater stability.

    these are just words.

    if you're insinuating i'm anti-capitalist, you're wrong. it's just that these things are wrong with the current system: currency speculation, banking (usury) and the fact the money supply charges the government to print money and is "above regulation"... link:watch allan greenspan say this, and then ben bernanke when asked by alan greyson on c-span where the money (0.4 trillion $ bailout) went, say link: "i don't know and i couldn't tell you if i did".

    abraham lincoln gave the people their biggest gift ever: freed them from the international old money bank-gankster-mafia, the venetian black nobility and old european oligarchs, and allowed them to print their own money with Greenbacks. this of course didn't last long, but while it was going, america flourished.

    it's all about the money.

    innovation and creativity flourish in adverse circumstance, true, but financial stability would let the many flourish instead of just the few.

    more millionares are created during recession and depression than at any other time...

    the current system isn't broken, it's built this way. built to inflate & deflate, contract and expand, so those in the know can shift money around.

    ask yourself: who is the 32 trillion $ national debt TO?

    and why are all countries with central banking systems ALSO in debt?

    i am pro-capitalism, but more so i'm anti-corruption.


    the fact is rothschild and his cronies own the federal reserve, and fund israel through america. israel would collapse without american help,
    so america is being bled dry for a country which gives nothing in return. why? well now that is indeed a mystery.

    from the torah (old testament) multiple lines, leviticus, exodus and other books:
    Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother;
    usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is
    lent upon usury: Unto a stranger thou mayest lend
    upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury:


    didn't Jesus their prophet declare us all family, brothers and sisters? hmm, hard not to see why he was rejected.

    revelation chap 2 verse 9 has something interesting to say

    I'm not anti-jewish, not at all, i'm pro jewish, my neighbour is a jew and i trust him with my life. he's married to a german, and a practicing religious jew. it is just the fake atheist jews who hide under the cover of the anti-defamation league who control a large portion of the media and banking world, through guidance of the royal families of europe; their slavemasters. Anti-zionist is the true pro-jewish stance. Milton Friedman also pointed this out.

    the true symbol of judaism is and always has been the menorah:
    7 candle stick candle holder.

    it was changed to the hexagram aka star of david(untrue by the way, nowhere is mentioned that david had a star in the old testament)
    because the rothschild family made it their family crest and came to such power that they could dictate what the new symbol of international judaism would be. Watch "lord" evelyn rothschild (title nobility gains just for having lots of money, accepted by the kings & queens of the world).

    See how george bush senior & junior, pop stars, idols, celebrities, businessmen, all bow and are knighted by the queen of england for their "services". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Bath
    did you know your constitution declares it TREASON to accept these kinds of titles from foreign monarchs?

    http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com...illion-people/

    leo trotsky, karl marx, stalin, lenin, all just pseudonyms, jewish pawns for the old venetian black nobility and true oligarchs of the old european world, who do not need to reveal themselves in public.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protoco...Elders_of_Zion

    What I find ironic about the Protocols, fake though they may be, is that they pretty much all apply to what's happening right now. I especially like these:

    #2 - the propagation of ideas, such as Darwinism, Marxism, Nietzsche-ism, Liberalism, Socialism, Communism, Anarchism, and Utopianism, with the task of undermining established forms of order.

    #12 - Curtailment of civil liberties with the excuse of defeating the enemies of peace

    The destruction of Christianity, Islam and other religions and cultures, followed by a transitional stage of atheism, followed finally by the hegemony of Judaism

    #21 - Economic depressions

    #22 Undermining financial systems by foreign loans, creating national bankruptcy, destroying money markets and replacing them with government credit institutions
    Not to mention #11, universal suffrage, and #1, the abolition of aristocratic privilege.

    henry ford also said the same thing: "The only statement I care to make about the Protocols is that they fit in with what is going on. They are sixteen years old and they have fitted the world situation up to this time. They fit it now."
    corruption is the truly destabilizing force. not creativity.

    and corruption is not of the flesh, but of the spirit.

    that is why it is so difficult to fight.


    Such as it is, the press has become the greatest power within the Western World, more powerful than the legislature, the executive and judiciary. One would like to ask; by whom has it been elected and to whom is it responsible?
    — Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn


    J Edgar Hoover (director of the FBI from 1924 to 1972:
    The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.
    The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst.
    It rejects even the assumption that human creatures could espouse a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent.
    The Elks Magazine (August 1956)


    as the chinese curse goes: "may you live in interesting times", aren't we just all.

    the truth is not dis-covered by accident, it must be searched for and constantly realized through life experience.

    i agree about not just reading books.


    more practical real world stuff: Re-Implement Glass Steagall, Investigate Kennedy's Executive Order 11110:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11110

    and implement it.

    That will lead to real stability.

    Last edited by samthemule; November 9th, 2011 at 06:36 AM.
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  9. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    The engine of dynamism is creativity, not productivity (which is a byproduct of creativity). Creativity is inherently destabilizing. You cannot stabilize dynamism if you want it to stay dynamic. Once economies are no longer dynamic, they stagnate. Meanwhile the population growth continues to rise. This is a recipe for disaster...

    The question is really, how can creativity be enhanced in the most economic sectors at once. The answer to that question is strong science and entrepreneurial education, the ability to prosper by one's own actions, and the free flow of investment capital.
    I guess that when you look at history it is true that an economy that isn't dynamic tends to fall under its own structure. I also think that the best answer we had until today is capitalism.
    You are saying that we should be more creative. There are tons of people working in the economic sector and I'm certain a lot of them are creative. Saying that they should be more creative is just a silly answer to the problems we have today. The system doesn't work right now not because people weren't creative enough. The system doesn't work right now because there are flaws in it. Fundamental flaws which we know since this isn't the first crisis we had over the past 100+ years. Capitalism has flaws and isn't the answer for everything.

    And that is just the thing. The one thing that brought communism to Russia and socialism to Europe (and a bit to America) is that the current capitalist system doesn't always tend to the the basic needs of people. More capitalism doesn't necessarily mean more equality among people.
    The ability to prosper by one's own actions until today has as result that millions of people are living in very poor conditions. The wealth has been going upward for Europe and the USA, despite two world wars, but for a big part our wealth hasn't spread down to the rest of the world.

    I agree that the free flow of investment capital is a good thing but that isn't something that is happening right now. There still are tons of trading embargo's in the world and those are mostly held by capitalist country's. Even so I am going to be the socialist and say I think there should be limits in wealth to ensure that somebody (certain country's) don't get to big a slice of the cake named earth.

    I do wonder what you mean by entrepreneurial education? If you mean we have to invest in education I agree. If you empathize more on the risk part of entrepreneurial I don't know if that is the most important thing right now. There are still many people who are illiterate, people who even aren't getting any education. With country's all over the world getting more entwined with each other I think that bad education is indeed a recipe for disaster.

    I think the question you should be asking isn't how creativity can be enhanced in the most economic sectors at once but how can we make the economic sectors enhance our creativity more? If creativity helps a better economy we should invest in creativity using our economy. Investing in our economy in the hope it gets more creative is a foolish endeavour.

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    It's only hypothetical but being a farmer sounds better than working in the Ipad sweatshops to me.

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    You can't stabilize a predatory system. There will always be somebody suffering under its tyranny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    The question is really, how can creativity be enhanced in the most economic sectors at once. The answer to that question is strong science and entrepreneurial education, the ability to prosper by one's own actions, and the free flow of investment capital. People who spend a lot of time on the internet learning effective means of anti-capitalist complaining are parasitic upon the economic daring of others. What is the ideal world they are dreaming of exactly? Some place where everybody who likes to read books and the interwebz gets to sit around getting paid to pretend to be intelligent? While other people tend to their basic needs?
    You seem to be operating under the assumption that class mobility is actually still a possibility anywhere on Earth. The rich stay rich, the poor stay poor; it's a natural consequence of a system where the means of prospering by one's own actions are not available to all (prohibitively expensive college tuitions etc. etc.), particularly when we tend to embody the attitude of the social strata we're born into. Poor people don't often have lofty aspirations, welfare is passed down over generations, things like that. So, like, screw those people, right? Of course, even in making a concerted effort to address these problems, I wouldn't put much stock in a system that outright demands infinite growth on a finite planet to maintain prosperity. The ideal world I'm dreaming of is more of a society that encourages cooperation over a predatory system that rewards aggressive competition and avarice. And yes, I'm all for individual responsibility!

    Gee, I wasn't expecting to run into any internet libertarians on an art forum! None of us are going to strike it rich. Unless you're Android or Manley. Or a Steve Jobs with a Wozniak to piggyback and give substance to your wacky creative ideas.

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    "Anti-capitalists should be forced to be farmers. A few years of that and they'd be cured of their insulated foolishness."

    Yeah live as a hunter gatherer for a few weeks and then see how much you like the supermarkets, rule of law and roaming internet of the military industrial complex.

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    I like the people picking apart little bits of a very vague paragraph to assume his position or disprove something, then ranting on entirely different discussions.

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    Boy, it sure was a vague post. Didn't stop him from getting a ton of thanks for it! I'm just trying to clean it up for him, man. Points seem relevant to me, where are you getting mixed up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    "Anti-capitalists should be forced to be farmers. A few years of that and they'd be cured of their insulated foolishness."

    Yeah live as a hunter gatherer for a few weeks and then see how much you like the supermarkets, rule of law and roaming internet of the military industrial complex.
    Yes, because anything outside of capitalism necessitates a complete return to nature.

    Last edited by Ossiferous Rex!; November 10th, 2011 at 09:04 PM.
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    Did you join just to post in this thread or are you a member who's too scared to post under their real name?

    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."
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    What, have I reason to be frightened? I joined to post in the art forums, but the board's moderation thing keeps sucking up my posts and holding them hostage until I've met some 15 post quota elsewhere or something. Kendall can't even see the nice praise I just left him in his finished work thread.

    Nice to meet you, by the way! I do appreciate the hostility.

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    It's Kev's throwaway account. I think he has been starved of a good internet interlocutor, and these discussions always bring the color back to his cheeks. Plus, look at all of the thanks he gets!

    And Ossiferous, your complaint about Kev's vagueness applies to your own post as well. Furthermore, I think you missed the point of Kev's question about an ideal world. It was a rhetorical device, meant to highlight the naivete of ideals. The irony (or is it fitting?) is that you do not yet understand this, and therefore fall directly in to Kev's categorization of the misguided.

    As for hostility, ya gotta dip your feet in the water before you can swim in the pool, or else when someone pees, everyone will think it was you. heh, hope that makes sense.

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    fifteen post quota huh? I wonder when that started. I bet the spambots made them do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goog View Post
    these discussions always bring the color back to his cheeks.
    Must be all the ass patting.

    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goog View Post
    And Ossiferous, your complaint about Kev's vagueness applies to your own post as well. Furthermore, I think you missed the point of Kev's question about an ideal world. It was a rhetorical device, meant to highlight the naivete of ideals. The irony (or is it fitting?) is that you do not yet understand this, and therefore fall directly in to Kev's categorization of the misguided.
    Make a vague post, get a vague reply. I did my best with what I had to work with! If there's something you don't get, tell me what it is and I'll be happy to elaborate. I've had this debate so many times in the past, I'm surely glossing over points that aren't as intuitive as I tend to think.

    And given that at least one of his supporters thought to go along with his opinion without fully understanding it himself, I don't think anyone but he could say whether or not that was a rhetorical question. In any case, you can't exactly highlight the "naivete of ideals" without positing what those ideals are (and why they're wrong) to begin with, which he completely failed to do. Whoops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossiferous Rex! View Post
    Make a vague post, get a vague reply. I did my best with what I had to work with!
    I thought you were all for individual responsibility? As such, this is not a sufficient excuse, because there isn't one. As for further elaboration, thanks for the offer, but I'll pass. I'm just here for the analysis of the convo.


    Also

    And given that at least one of his supporters thought to go along with his opinion without fully understanding it himself, I don't think anyone but he could say whether or not that was a rhetorical question.
    Not be a dick but: click here


    Ok, yeah that was dickish...sorry, but really....yeah. I just don't agree with your statement at all.

    But hey, you seem like a nice enough guy, keep going. I do mean that.

    edit: who knows, maybe kev will come in here and prove me wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goog View Post
    I thought you were all for individual responsibility? As such, this is not a sufficient excuse, because there isn't one. As for further elaboration, thanks for the offer, but I'll pass. I'm just here for the analysis of the convo.
    Really? Well, what you're doing right now is less analyzing and more niggling, telling me I'm wrong and that you don't understand me without making any effort to enunciate your complaints. Actually requesting clarification? That would be analysis! You'd be making an actual contribution to the discussion, even! And if you don't agree, you'd do well to state why before patronizing me. That's sort of how debates work.

    Though, I can already tell you didn't understand what I meant by "personal responsibility", because the context you just used it in didn't make any sense at all. But that's fine, I can explain that: I was really just trying to head him off at the pass because I was fairly certain of where the discussion was going. Internet libertarians have this habit of preaching personal responsibility in all things, thinking that anyone who doesn't (or can't) take advantage of our marvelous free market economy is subhuman and deserving of whatever rut life has landed them in. And that's the group I lumped him in, as he seems to think the "anti-capitalists" somehow pose a threat to his own prosperity, and that we need someone to take care of us. That's something I'd love to hear him explain!

    Basically, I was five steps ahead of the conversation and should've held my goddamn horses. Whoops x2.

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    So you joined this forum to post art but can't so you decided to jump in on one of our many political discussions only to pigeon hole a senior poster for whom you have no familiarity with AND you consider that to simply be "ahead" of the thread.

    You're going to fit in well here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by s.ketch View Post
    senior poster
    So that's what the problem is!

    Sorry. I can come back to this 1,000+ posts later if you think that'll make my thoughts sound any more rational than they are now. I don't think I've said anything more offensive than he already had, though. I'll bend over and take it next time.

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    Chill out, that's not what I meant. Stop being so dramatic about it.

    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."
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    Backpedal faster. Or, tell me what you did mean! I've been as calm and polite as I can be given the circumstances, I haven't lashed out at anyone. 15 posts later and this thread hasn't gone anywhere because of all this passive–aggressive bullshit.

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  29. #25
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    Imagine you and a group of people you've known for years is having a discussion and then some douchenozzle jumps in and starts telling people they're libertarians according to the vast body of experience this guy has from arguing on the internet.

    So don't try to paint it as you're being persecuted for your radical comments. Or that everyone's being mean. Or that you're just making small talk and you've had your head cut off.

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    By applying graph theory, you draw a line between communist ideals and democratic ideals, and you get a scale! Wa-la! It is hardly fair to judge any idea in absolute terms. Communism itself has a history of distortion from Maoism to Stalinism. You can't expect every communism or even democracy to be the same. So it is unwise to judge them absolutely. America would be close to democratic on the scale, but not in its extremity due to certain socialist or communist practices, and it needs it. A far, purely extreme government doesn't exist anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vay View Post
    By applying graph theory, you draw a line between communist ideals and democratic ideals, and you get a scale! Wa-la! It is hardly fair to judge any idea in absolute terms. Communism itself has a history of distortion from Maoism to Stalinism. You can't expect every communism or even democracy to be the same. So it is unwise to judge them absolutely.
    Man, tell me about it! So how am I supposed to react when I see a guy at the opposite end of the political spectrum pulling judgmental absolute statements out of his ass?

    Do the exact same thing, I guess. I'm just going to cut this short here- I really would like to discuss this further, but it clearly just isn't happening, and I really didn't come here to piss people off. I'm not used to dealing with an incensed aristocracy when it comes to internet discourse (usually: "jump in wherever, say whatever"), but I guess that's how things would work in reality, and I can respect that. 7 posts aren't enough to permanently tarnish my reputation, right?

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    "People on the internet aren't agreeing with me, they must be aristocrats!"

    "The guy on the internet said anti-capitalists are foolish, he must be at the opposite political spectrum than me! Even though anti-capitalist doesn't pertain to one particular political ideology!"

    "I'm so important that I affect the emotional state of people thousands of miles way over the internet with my witty and clever posts!"

    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."
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    Identifying ways of making global capitalism more stable
    Olive branch #2?

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    Yep, the lounge forum never disappoints.... *eats popcorn*

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