Color Management Issue
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    Color Management Issue

    Hello everyone,

    I'd like to know why the color management feature makes everything appear reddish on my screen.

    Also, it's always turned on each time I open a file. And because of it's weird color, I often have to turn it off. If the reddish color is due to a color management issue that I've done wrong, please let me know. Otherwise I'd like know how I can leave it off from now on.

    Thanks.

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    ikken's Avatar
    ikken is offline Her Wings Glow According To Her Mood © Level 8 Gladiator: Thracian
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    canvas - color management
    in painter versions before 11 you could turn it off completely, not so sure about 11 and 12 (I have very limited experience with both of them)

    on the fourth day of glitchmas my painter™ gave to me
    four random crashes, three broken brushes, two system hangups & one corrupted workspace
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    Hello ikken,

    Thanks. Yes, I'm using Corel 11 and I can't find the "off" button to this thing in the color management settings...

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    Arshes Nei's Avatar
    Arshes Nei is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    Make sure you're using the right profile of Color Management. Go into your settings and post a screenshot of what you have set up for Color Management.

    http://painterfactory.com/forums/sto...3/7010/im1.jpg like so.

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    Hello Arshes Nei,

    Here's my settings as it is now. Are they suppose to be as shown in your screen shot?

    Thanks.

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    Arshes Nei's Avatar
    Arshes Nei is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    Try setting it with srgb "wBPC" (With Black Point Compensation) and see if it helps

    Also, older images you have in Painter will have the old profile so you may need to convert them.

    Last edited by Arshes Nei; November 14th, 2011 at 09:48 AM.
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    OK, I've switched it to "wBPC" and saved a new file for testing. But when I reopen it, that color management button on the top right still turns on. Is this function supposed to stay on anyway?

    I also went under Canvas>Color Proofing Settings and chose the wBPC and unchecked the box that says to turn on the color proofing mode. But nothing happens. And as you see, the file has this reddish tone compared with the neutral grey of Painter's background. I don't understand... (oh, and since I'm already here - is the rendering intent correct)?


    I apologize for my ingenuity, it's just that I've never had to worry about these settings and terms in Corel 10.

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    Actually the rainbow is the color management, what appears to be pressed is Tracing Paper? on your screenshot, press the B/W icon button.

    NVM

    The question is what is your color profile for your OS, and what OS are you running?

    Last edited by Arshes Nei; November 14th, 2011 at 01:27 PM.
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    obviously xp

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshbailey View Post
    obviously xp
    Yes, but I should be more specific. I'm actually looking more for system specs like graphics card, and monitor.

    Sometimes there is a junk profile for color put in by the OS

    http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d....mspx?mfr=true

    So I want to know what is the color management profile, or profile set up by the PC, not the profile in Painter.

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    Alright,

    The annoying reddish color shifts seems to be giving others the same problem too. And in my case it happens cause I work with Painter and Photoshop simultaneously, which obviously had mismatching color profiles.

    So this link is a video about color management:

    http://www.screencast.com/t/X6PkMwVS

    So having watched that video, I've set both Painter and Photoshop to work with the Adobe RGB (1998) color profile. Everything should be fine at this point, but it isn't! Painter still gives me that reddish tint as if something is still wrong.

    I'm getting desperate cause I understand that a wrong color profile can mess up the colors in other devices.

    How are your color settings done (provided you use photoshop too)?

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    Oh, is this what you're looking for? It must be the color profile that I'm using in windows XP.

    Sorry, although I paint on the computer I'm not very techy...

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    Arshes Nei's Avatar
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    You may want to add the sRGB profile to the Windows Color management.

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    Here is a screenshot of what will help solve this for future problems

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    Ok, already set Windows and both softwares with matching profiles. But the reddish color shifting still occurs when I open Painter.

    I guess there's really no way around this color management thing, it's a Painter 11 issue. The only thing I can do, though highly not recommended, is to just turn it off.

    Anyway, thanks everyone for taking the time to help me out. Of course, I'd still appreciate if any more ideas come to mind.

    Thanks again.

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    @Royzen
    Could you post your monitor profile so we could check if your problem comes from this one.
    It is located in
    Code:
    C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color
    Its name must be something like SM223BWplus.icc or SM223BWplus.icm

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    Quote Originally Posted by hecartha View Post
    @Royzen
    Could you post your monitor profile so we could check if your problem comes from this one.
    It is located in
    Code:
    C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color
    Its name must be something like SM223BWplus.icc or SM223BWplus.icm
    Yeah that's a SyncMaster profile for Samsung monitors.

    Are you asking him to give you the copy of the profile itself (not a screenshot of the name of it?)

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    Yes, I would like the profile file.
    I have seen a similar issue before (on random forums) and I am really interested to know if the problem comes from a corrupted profile or if it comes from painter on XP or from XP itself. So, I will try to recreate the Royzen's issue and if the problem does not appear under Windows 7, maybe it is something which has to do with XP.
    If the problem is specific to XP, maybe it will be possible to fix it with the Microsoft Color Control Panel Applet for Windows XP. I am not sure if it is automatically added as a Windows update.

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    Hello Hecartha,

    I found what you're looking for. This should be interesting. Please let me know what you discover.

    Thanks for your help.

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    Yep, your problem comes from your monitor profile. Even Photoshop is displaying a message about defective profile when using it. I checked Samsung support website and it provides only this defective profile also.

    Your only options now are:
    1- to use what Arshes Nei suggested to you -> replace your screen profile by a standard sRGB profile. That's not accurate and that means roughly you will deactivate color management everywhere. This solution is not necessary bad considering your monitor profile was a generic profile which is probably not accurate.
    2- to buy a calibrator that will allow you to get a real reliable profile.

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    I see...

    So the problem lies in my monitor? Is it some kind of driver error? Will reinstalling it fix the problem? If not, I guess I'll really have to consider both options, yes.

    I just brought up this color management thing because of Painter 11 (like I said, I'd always have to switch off that rainbow button), cause up until recently I've always used 10 and never had to worry about color managing.

    Which brings me wondering now - I've been working with my equipment for quite a long time already, and actually never found the colors messed up in other computers or printers. I mean, why have I still gotten good results from my work regardless of knowing how to color manage or not?

    This is a confusing and I really should get educated on the matter...

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    Argh!

    I can't believe this! Now Painter displays the correct colors (even with the color management button on) and my Photoshop is the one with bad muddy colors!

    Ahah! I'm going insane here!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Royzen View Post
    So the problem lies in my monitor? Is it some kind of driver error? Will reinstalling it fix the problem? If not, I guess I'll really have to consider both options, yes.
    No, the problem comes only from your monitor profile provided by Samsung. The profile is a file which indicates what colors is able to display your monitor. It is needed when using color management.

    An hardware calibrator can create such profile if you place it on the screen (you can see this ad from Datacolor as an example). The software which comes with the calibrator will display some colors on your monitor and the calibrator will measure these colors.
    The calibrator is able also to fix gamma problem.
    This photo is my laptop before calibration, a blueish image


    and this one is the same laptop with gamma correction

    The gamma correction is a needed base for color management but it never comes in the color management process. Your current monitor profile does not use gamma correction anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Royzen View Post
    Which brings me wondering now - I've been working with my equipment for quite a long time already, and actually never found the colors messed up in other computers or printers. I mean, why have I still gotten good results from my work regardless of knowing how to color manage or not?
    That's because your monitor is displaying colors close enough of the target color space you are trying to reach -> sRGB
    Your monitor profile indicates your monitor is displaying the following color space with accurate color lightness...usually, manufacturer color profile are enthusiastic, they are like ideal color that could display the monitor.

    There is two shapes on this image, your monitor is the opaque shape and it needs to match the shape with white outline.
    Quote Originally Posted by Royzen View Post
    I can't believe this! Now Painter displays the correct colors (even with the color management button on) and my Photoshop is the one with bad muddy colors!
    Follow Arshes Nei's suggestion and forget about using Adobe RGB because:
    -your monitor is too weak for such color space
    -your monitor is a TN panel with colors changing depending on your position so it is far to be accurate
    -you don't have a real color profile so it is better to make things simpler.

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    Hello Hecartha,

    Oh man, thanks for the detailed explanation. That calibrator looks really sweet, but I'm afraid such gadgets might not be available where I live, unless I order it online. Its definitely worth considering.

    Yes, for the meantime I shall follow Arshes Nei's suggestion. But I didn't want to leave things at that. And for time's sake, now that I know my monitor isn't very proper (and before I go purchasing such calibrator) - and you're right, the colors do change even when I move an inch to the sides, and that sucks since I never keep still in one position - I'd like to know first if there's one last alternative, such as, would it help to just get a new monitor?

    If so, which monitor would you recommend for the digital artist? Doesn't have to be too fancy. I'm not getting a Mac anytime soon, so scratch that off, eheh.

    Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Royzen View Post
    I'd like to know first if there's one last alternative, such as, would it help to just get a new monitor?
    Yes, a new monitor with a proper profile could work if the profile is working correctly.
    Of course a calibrator will prevent any kind of issue but a new monitor should be enough I suppose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Royzen View Post
    If so, which monitor would you recommend for the digital artist? Doesn't have to be too fancy. I'm not getting a Mac anytime soon, so scratch that off, eheh.
    An IPS panel is what you need. That's this technology which allows wide viewing angle (and PVA, MVA...).
    You can try the TFT selector from TFT Central. I think there is now good IPS screen between 250$ to 350$.

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    Hi Royzen,
    I forgot something about your monitor profile. It has a very low gamma at 1,71 which means (if the profile is accurate) your monitor is displaying more RGB values for darkest colors (and less for brighter colors) than the usual 2,2 gamma.
    The standard sRGB profile is using a gamma at 2,2 so you can't just use this one finally...

    As I have said, your profile is defective, the white is not where it should be. So I tried to fix your profile using a Photoshop tool (however it is not made for this task). You will find the profile in attachment.
    For your information, this tool is under the Photoshop color settings and it allows to edit color profile:

    Once the profile selected, it is needed to click here again and...


    choose Custom RGB that will open this panel

    The profile name can be edited and the new profile can be saved using "Save RGB".
    The result of course is different than your original profile that's why I hesitated giving you this solution before. But now, because of the problem with gamma I think it is better to give you this workaround.
    That's the modified monitor color space...you can see the old one also.

    I added with this new profile an sRGB profile with gamma set at 1,71 also. You can use the modified sRGB or the "fixed" profile as monitor profile. However, I have not any clue which one should be the best for your monitor. Once the profile installed, you will find them under these names:
    Samsung - Natural Color Pro 1.0 ICM [fixed]
    sRGB IEC61966-2.1 [Gamma 1,71]


    Just a reminder now about color management. When you create an image using it, this image will have the right colors only when viewed in color managed condition (Windows image viewer is color managed).

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    Hello Hecartha,

    You may have well resolved my problem once and for all!

    Let me see if I got this right - I've set the sRGB Color Space Profile [Gamma 1,71] to my monitor and to both Painter and Photoshop, and now they're matching colors extremely well. The files are able to save with the embedded profiles and both programs don't bother me with mismatch warnings anymore.

    I think this is the closest I can get to 100% regarding the situation I'm in now, with a defective monitor and all. And it sure beats what I had before (those horrible reddish colors in Painter, etc).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Royzen View Post
    Let me see if I got this right - I've set the sRGB Color Space Profile [Gamma 1,71] to my monitor and to both Painter and Photoshop
    The underlined part is incorrect. You still need to set the normal sRGB profile for both Painter and Photoshop.
    I know it is abstract...let me explain. Your monitor according to Samsung is displaying images with gamma at 1,71. But all sRGB images use gamma at 2,2. That means your monitor is increasing by default the brightness (of dark area) of standard sRGB images.
    To fix that, your monitor needs to emulate the right gamma with color management. So your monitor profile needs to inform color managed applications what gamma it is displaying to be able to emulate the 2,2 gamma. Once it is done, the image will look the same for both Painter and Photoshop but you will notice they will appear "brighter" outside color managed applications which is a normal behavior.

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    Yes, I'm having a hard time understanding all this technical stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by hecartha View Post

    Once it is done, the image will look the same for both Painter and Photoshop but you will notice they will appear "brighter" outside color managed applications which is a normal behavior.
    I've understood the gamma issues with the monitor already, thanks again for that. But I'm a bit lost with the normal sRGB profile you're asking to set for both programs. Do you mean the previous sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile before you made the adjustment? Cause after I did that the files in Painter got darker when compared with Photoshop. Once again they're not matching colors.

    Hopefully I can finally put this thread at a closure and not keep your blood boiling all the time, eheh!

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