Perspective - multiple vanishing point sets
Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop

Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Perspective - multiple vanishing point sets

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Perspective - multiple vanishing point sets

    Hi Guys,
    I've recently started reading up on perspective and have noticed that in just about every tutorial and book i've read all objects in a scene are parallel to each other and so share the same set of vanishing points. In some sites it's been mentioned that objects that don't face the same direction will use their own sets of vanishing points but they dont really go into how to find them. What i'm stuck on (in 2 point perspective) is finding the second VP or more specifically the distance required between them. The second dot point in this link http://www.artlearn.org/courses/Basi...on_Rockman.pdf says that each set of vanishing points just need to have the same distance between them. Can someone confirm if this is acurate? Other sites have alluded to other methods (making sure both angles make up 90 degrees being one) so i'm not sure what to believe.

    Hope this makes sense.

    Cheers,
    Harley.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,143
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 397 Times in 272 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by HJRS View Post
    The second dot point in this link http://www.artlearn.org/courses/Basi...on_Rockman.pdf says that each set of vanishing points just need to have the same distance between them. Can someone confirm if this is acurate?
    No, it is not. The distance between vanishing points across the horizon is pretty meaningless. It is minimal if the directions are both at 45 degrees, and grows towards infinity if one direction approaches 0 degrees, in a one-point perspective.

    Learn to construct vanishing point from your eye point, stationary point or whatever it is called.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Haifa, Israel
    Posts
    3,847
    Thanks
    2,294
    Thanked 2,231 Times in 1,351 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Research the "architect's method" of building perspectives from plans. It includes a very practical way of finding the VPs.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    3,167
    Thanks
    751
    Thanked 2,340 Times in 1,205 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    What I do is sketch out a thumbnail that looks approximately like what I want and then make sure all lines parallel to one another go to the same vanishing point. I have *some* sort of idea about what I want the cube or building or car to look like, so why not work backwards from that?

    *** Sketchbook * Landscapes * Portfolio * Store***

    "There are two kinds of students: the self-taught and the hopeless."
    - Dr. Piotr Rudnicki
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to vineris For This Useful Post:


  6. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Thanks for the replies guys.
    @eezacque@xs4all.nl: I didn't really think it could be right, just seemed to easy lol. I'll look into constructing VP's from the stationary point, when trying to construct simple scenes i've pretty much just put the VP's in arbitrary locations (usuallly just to the edge of the page).

    @arenhaus: I'm familiar with the architects method of using floor/elevation plans and that's what i'll use if there isn't another way. I could also use measuring points as well.

    @vineris: i guess i'm trying to find out how to construct the objects/cubes as accurately as possible. As i'm pretty inexperienced with perspective i dont trust my estimations as this stage.

    For those interested i came across these links last night which will achieve what i want. If anyone else knows of any other ways I'd love to know.
    http://mysite.pratt.edu/~jwenner/ima...ate_cube_1.jpg
    http://mysite.pratt.edu/~jwenner/ima...ate_cube_2.jpg


    Cheers,
    Harley.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    2,447
    Thanks
    359
    Thanked 667 Times in 419 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    The distance changes depending on how far you expect people to be from your picture when they look at it. A small pic that people look at in a book will have closer vp's than one you expect them to look at from a wall. The simplest way I've heard of to calculate this is just to hold out your arms perpendicularly then just walk closer or farther to the picture depending on where you want the points to hit.

    Name:  vp.jpg
Views: 1559
Size:  10.8 KB

    But what really matters is that it look cool.

    Sketchbook

    "Beliefs are rules for action"
    "Knowledge is proven in action."
    "It's use is it's meaning."
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to armando For This Useful Post:


  9. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    400
    Thanks
    113
    Thanked 122 Times in 85 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Download Successful Drawing from here

    http://escapefromillustrationisland....ion-downloads/

    Learning to see

    "...the ideas are what matter most" Doug Chiang
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Charlie D For This Useful Post:


  11. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    2,364
    Thanks
    796
    Thanked 1,273 Times in 887 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by eezacque@xs4all.nl View Post
    No, it is not. The distance between vanishing points across the horizon is pretty meaningless. It is minimal if the directions are both at 45 degrees, and grows towards infinity if one direction approaches 0 degrees, in a one-point perspective.

    Learn to construct vanishing point from your eye point, stationary point or whatever it is called.
    This is correct.

    Was that DEBORAH Rockman!?! as the source of the PDF? (hope not. . .)

    Christ!

    There's a lotta crap on the interwebs. . . .

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  12. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Thanks again for the replies ppl.

    For those that are interested, while reading a section on ellipses from an eBook on perspective, I think i've worked out another way to find where the second vanishing point would lie: If you drew a square (ie 4 equal sides) in perspective on a plane and then drew a circle (in perspective) inside the square, the minor axis of the circle/ellipse would point to the other vanishing point. (please correct me if i'm wrong!).

    I realise this probably isn't the easiest or most efficient way of setting up a scene however i was just curious if/how this could be done and couldn't let it rest until i found out

    Last edited by HJRS; November 7th, 2011 at 12:31 AM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  13. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,143
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 397 Times in 272 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by HJRS View Post
    For those that are interested, while reading a section on ellipses from an eBook on perspective, I think i've worked out another way to find where the second vanishing point would lie: If you drew a square (ie 4 equal sides) in perspective on a plane and then drew a circle (in perspective) inside the square, the minor axis of the circle/ellipse would point to the other vanishing point. (please correct me if i'm wrong!).
    You're wrong. First, you construct your vanishing points, then you construct your square in perspective and, finally, you construct your cicle in perspective. There is no way to automagically get square and circle in perspective to get a vanishing point...

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  14. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    58
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 19 Times in 12 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/tech10.html
    this link should be posted to any perspective related question... 100% mathematically accurate and well explained.
    The short answer for the question is that most perspective "tutorials" will only use parallel objects since it is much easier and you don't have to do many calculations to get it right.
    When drawing a complicated scene unless you must have it 100% accurate, just try and make it look right. making sure all parallel lines get to the same vanishing point will help.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Erayo For This Useful Post:


  16. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    @eezacque: Seems like there's a lot of misinformation out there on perspective then which is getting a little frustrating. constructing VP's from ellispses was also in the Gnomon basic perspective dvd (unless i misunderstood what he said). Also after reading further in the eBook i mentioned there is a similar method used. So not sure what to think there.

    @Erayo thanks for the link, looks like a good read. I don't need 100% accuracy but i figure if i can understand the theory behind it, it will help me when constructing scenes.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  17. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    56
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 37 Times in 13 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I don't need 100% accuracy but i figure if i can understand the theory behind it, it will help me when constructing scenes.
    Relying on theory for answers is doing it the hardway in my opinion. Multiple vanishing points off the top of your head??? aye ya yuy

    Learn free sketchup or any other 3d programs to rough out your scene (you can just use boxes, cylinders, etc.). Use resulting vanishing lines as drawing guides. Profit. You can print out the screen as a guide for your sketchbook if you're not into digital.

    And you can actually learn theoritical perspective better and faster after using 3d a lot as a time saving tool. My experience anyway.

    But if you like maths...

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

Members who have read this thread: 4

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •