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  1. #1
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    Hi guys. I wanted to post something in the critique center in order to get some good advise on how to push the picture a little further and to get some advise on how to get better. ok, this is a picture which i made with reference. usually i paint in "lines" but in this picture i tried to paint in "values" (if you can call it like this). do you guys think its good to keep practising like this ("copying" a photo for example or copying other things) or would you recommend me other things? appreciate every comment! thanks guys!

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    Hi matey

    have you any reference pictures for this image? if you have please post them so that we can see how to help.

    Looking at it at the moment the lips look weird and there is a big light one the shaded side of her face which looks abit weird too, But these may be in the image you are useing as a ref.

    Post please, and then we will be a bit more effective in the crits, thanks

    A great kind hearted lumbering bullock



    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209918 = my Sketchbook
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  3. #3
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    ah ok, here is my reference. i actually wanted the lips to look like that, because i did not want them to look "normal" - i just wanted to make them "special".

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    What do you mean by 'special' exactly? From a distance (or if you squint) they look like sharp teeth. If that's what you meant by special, then fair enough.

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    The values in the ref aren't as dramtically different from each other as you painted them. I'm mostly talking about the left side, where the cheek is very white compared to the side of the head which is very black

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    Hi matey

    Ok here we go then, looking at the ref and they yours in quick succession by moving the sider up and down, It would appear that you havn't quite get your head around the way the light is working in the photo (it appears to be mostly overcast type with a slight strengthening from the upper right quad of the photo).
    That is important to understand as the planes of the face and the anatomy of the face in general all reflects and recieves light in slightly different ways. Always spend a lot of time studying the references, it pays off later.

    The way you have drawn her face is flawed mate, the muscles under the skin are missing, You need to go back to the books and practice some anatomy sketches which admittedly can be dull but its something we all have to do, and indeed re-do from time to time in my case.

    If we start with the forehead she should have a slight frown going on that is creasing her forehead.
    Her eyebrows are not picking up the light as much in your image as they are in the photo, again this is down to the muscles under the skin (and bone).
    Her nose has dark shadows on both sides of her nose and its overall structure is off, you missed the fact that the light is hitting one side of it in the photo.
    The lips and chin are anatomically wrong too, and she looks like she has a large pearl ear ring on.

    Now at this point you are probably shouting at the screen and snapping your pencils, DONT!! Because the shape of her head isnt that far off and you have two things in your favour.
    1) you know exactly what someone has seen in the image that you can fix reasonably easily if you want to.
    2) you have a list of things to practice and improve upon like muscles and correct shape of the skull and use of light etc. you could do this in the next image or indeed you can re-try this one.

    its all worthwhile and useful to you in the end.

    I hope I havent upset or dis-heartened you too much, all the best with the image mate

    A great kind hearted lumbering bullock



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  8. #7
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    Lightship already wrote a big deal about the flaws... I wish to talk about the mouth... You didn't really draw a mouth, you drew some outlined thing on a very simple surface. Look at her mouth. It's not a cut and pasted something on the head, there's a wonderful structure around it. There's the philtrum, the more or less donut-like corners, the part below the lower lips that get more light in usual lighting... But there's no dark outline that separates the lips and the part of the face around it.
    The stripes looks odd too. Light stripes should be much darker at heavily shadowed parts.
    I think you aren't at the level where you can drastically change lighting. Study faces and draw them as you see, or simpler, break them into planes, search for the structure behind them, draw skulls...

    You drew the most important part, her eyes the best. It seems you know much more about eye anatomy than the anatomy of the other features and the whole head. They lack the frown as Lightship69 already told you so the expression is slightly different and I wouldn't draw such a dark continous line above the lower lid but they are nice eyes, I really like them.

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    @Slothboy3000

    with special i meant like i did not want to paint ordinary lips, i wanted to give them some kind of "effect"/ just make them different.


    @Lightship69

    2) you have a list of things to practice and improve upon like muscles and correct shape of the skull and use of light etc. you could do this in the next image or indeed you can re-try this one.
    thank you so much for the advise!

    I hope I havent upset or dis-heartened you too much, all the best with the image mate
    pff, dude! i´m so thankful and glad about your comment because it showed me, where i can/have to improve! really appreciate it!

    @shiNIN

    You drew the most important part, her eyes the best. It seems you know much more about eye anatomy than the anatomy of the other features and the whole head.
    yeah, i think ur actually right. so far i was just drawing some things, without really understanding the matter behind it all. thats because i didn´t do studies about bones and things like that. will change it in future.

    I wouldn't draw such a dark continous line above the lower lid but they are nice eyes, I really like them.
    thanks for the compliment, mate


    thank you guys so much for the good advise. will do some studies and i hope i will get better . cheers!

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    If you are trying to learn about values, use reference to learn about values. It's not really "using a reference" if you're just going to make everything up anyway.

    "This cake tastes terrible!"
    "But I used a recipe!"
    "How, exactly?"
    "Well, I didn't have any butter, so I substituted sauerkraut, and I used random measurements instead of the amounts that it called for, and instead of a cake pan I used an old spackle bucket."
    "Why??!!!???"
    "I wanted it to be special."


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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    If you are trying to learn about values, use reference to learn about values. It's not really "using a reference" if you're just going to make everything up anyway.

    "This cake tastes terrible!"
    "But I used a recipe!"
    "How, exactly?"
    "Well, I didn't have any butter, so I substituted sauerkraut, and I used random measurements instead of the amounts that it called for, and instead of a cake pan I used an old spackle bucket."
    "Why??!!!???"
    "I wanted it to be special."
    well, i do understand your citique but it´s not like i did everything different. i just painted the lips elsewise. for the rest of the picture i tried to use reference. however, i appreciate your advise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oaki View Post
    well, i do understand your citique but it´s not like i did everything different. i just painted the lips elsewise. for the rest of the picture i tried to use reference. however, i appreciate your advise.
    well then you should read up on valueshifts representing form+light, edges and such, because im with elwell on this, its a pretty "freestyle" interpretation of your reference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oaki View Post
    well, i do understand your citique but it´s not like i did everything different.
    It's exactly like you did everything different.

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    Just do more of these. You are a little attached to it and sensitive that way.

    With time you'll see more and your concentration should sharpen. At this point you personally need to see the flaws and differances for yourself. This will come with repeated attempts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Abraham View Post
    Just do more of these. You are a little attached to it and sensitive that way.

    With time you'll see more and your concentration should sharpen. At this point you personally need to see the flaws and differances for yourself. This will come with repeated attempts.
    thanks mate!

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    one of the things I do when painting a face that I do is think of the paint as clay I push it on and around the forms lines on the face destroy the face 95% of the time the nose is part pf the face that sticks out no mater the ethnicity of the character......me take the photo into photo shop apply median filter to it so you see the planes try and see the face as 6 to 8 planes.......

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    Hi matey

    I just thought I would swing by and ease your troubled mind! You have managed to pull in some top shelf talent to crit your stuff and it might not feel like it yet but that is a good thing.
    Try this picture again, from the ground up it will be such a good exercise for you and carry on in this thread.
    In fact to start print the ref out and try and put the various planes of the face on it, I have seen loads of folks around here do it and it helps, seriously you litterally draw them on the print out.
    The lighting and values are going to be a tough nut to crack for you, but study the reference photo and really study it to get your head around what the muscles are doing under the skin and you will get it mate.

    Read all the points above and if you dont get it say so and I'm sure between us all we can point you at a resource that you can learn from, keep at it mate and all the best.

    A great kind hearted lumbering bullock



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