Sketchbook: Pavel Sokov's Sketchbook - Page 11
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Thread: Pavel Sokov's Sketchbook

  1. #301
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    I have started implementing the paintover, and as you mentioned, it doesn't exactly solve all the problems that proper thumb-nailing and prior planning would of prevented. sigh. I better be more thoughtful with the next page.



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    hey there. i like the overall color scheme of the wolf illustration but gotta agree with tinybird esp. on the moon. rather than a wise old man, he looks like vladimir putin preparing to hold a speech in an election rally. i guess a more cartooney face with a raised eyebrow to suggest his judging stance would do the trick. as for the wolf, he seems to float on the snow, i think playing with the shadows and the snow in such way to partly cover the feet would work. i'm no pro but these are my humble suggestions. good luck =)

    eta: hey, i just found this (link) that might be of help for many aspects about the wolf (posture, gait, shadow, interaction with snow, etc.)

    Last edited by jamsession; November 20th, 2012 at 03:41 AM.
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  4. #303
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    I think the wolf would have left legs together and right legs apart, right now he has "pass walking" (dont know what that is in english)

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  6. #304
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    Yea the moon looks creepy, you are absolutely right, especially the mouth. I have a hard time with cartooning, I need to make a bigger effort to be kid friendly. Thank you for the link of the wolf, he looks great!

    My writing partner said he wants to talk to me about this page, so I have stopped trying with it until our meeting next week.

    In the meanwhile I started thinking about Cg society's new Challenge about the number 10. It could be anything involving 10, and it seems like it will be a pretty big competition to watch out for. So I had a few ideas, and decided to explore the idea of a woman who fell into a coma for 10 years. She has awoke, but is largely forgotten.

    I used google sketchup to figure out the composition, and am painting things in on top of that.



    Last edited by Pavel Sokov; November 22nd, 2012 at 11:21 AM.
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  7. #305
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    A bit of an update:


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  8. #306
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    The composition is uninteresting and the perspective is distorted, not to mention everything looks so flat. Did you thumbnail this?

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  10. #307
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    I made the perspective intensified because I thought it would give a psychedelic drug-like feel to the image.

    Sadly, no, I did not make thumbnails. I never do, probably because understanding composition is such a struggle for me. I suppose I give up before I even try and make it better. I looked at your blog, and your thumbnails are great! The mood, the colors, and the compositions themselves are arresting. Maybe the only way for me to achieve that prowess with composition is to just try.

    I didn't notice that it looks flat though.

    Do you have a reccomendation for the composition? I would be very grateful!

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  11. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pavel Sokov View Post
    Sadly, no, I did not make thumbnails. I never do, probably because understanding composition is such a struggle for me.
    thats the reason you do them! every professional knows that exploration yields better results.

    without the ability to convey ideas quickly and exploring possibilities, youre bound to spend a lot of time thats in most cases rejected or needs adjustment. you seriously need to get into thumbnailing and pushing the boundaries, if you want to create pictures professionally.

    even if your first idea turns out to be the best.. youll never know untill theres a 3rd, 8th, 14th,....


    [edit] also... with that last picture... it just doesnt work....
    - the perpective is off (because of beeing really sloppy). put in a horizon line and the vanishing points. are the where they are supposed to be? (the chairs aint the same size e.g.)
    - the picture doesnt feel claustophobic. the wide angle lense suggests theres like 1/2 of empty room and 1/2 bed. the ceiling... its high... whats that supposed to be?

    everything is so random. you need to figure those things out. and thats where thumbs come in handy... you just waste less time on those fails.... and everyone fails. better to get rid of them quickly than spending alot of time on them

    Last edited by sone_one; November 26th, 2012 at 08:42 PM.
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  13. #309
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    A lot of people I talk to really struggle with layouts and composition, it just takes practice! Thumbnails are awesome because they are really fast, small, and will save you loads of time later on. Just grab a sketch book and try playing with different horizon lines, upshots, downshots, etc...they aren't supposed to be pretty, just scribbles for you to build upon later. For your painting in particular I could see you going for a very slight upshot of the woman on the bed, give her a bigger chunk of the canvas too. It's hard to describe how to compose something, a topic better suited to visuals lol. I'll trying whipping something up, until then do some thumbnails!

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    I can sympathise, composition and thumbnails are something I also am having trouble with. When you're just starting out learning composition it can seem like too big a hurdle to overcome, and is a hurdle I still am working on, with mixed results. Some approaches I've been trying is mentally list different elements of composition and make thumbnails for them. Bird's eye, worm's eye, close up, vista view etc this helps me deal with my lack of inspiration. As has probably being mentioned studied from life can be useful but it's not always possible for us to find time to go out and find good scenes to study so another suggestion I was given was to do studies not only from great art masters but also from movies, most movies tend to have pretty solid composition but remember when doing the study to try and note what the compositional elements of the scene are.

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  17. #311
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    aside from the thumbnails for the image files in one's directory and smaller versions of piccies on websites, i did not know what thumbnails were up until the point where i learnt what they were for a gfx artist / painter on ca. i just started to use them for my work and found out that they are actually fun! i'd recommend you to give them a chance, they really come in handy in avoiding the time wasted otherwise to fix a half finished work to the point of saying to heck with it and giving up for good.

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  19. #312
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    Don't get me wrong guys, you are all absolutely right. I am just being a bitch, and being lazy, which shows. In fact this is a good example of the cost of that folly, since it seems nobody likes my image and I have to chuck it out completely, having lost 6-8 hours.

    The image is lost, right? Adding elements like clocks or something to the composition won't save it? I simply have to chuck it and make a new one?

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    naaah it ain't lost unless you want to lose it. i personally enjoy your style and works, and firmly believe that you are very talented. the last image has a promising plot but just needs to be planned early to eliminate issues at an advanced stage, and luckily, you are at the early stage of developing the picci so it's not too late for you to fix the perspective. now. i'm looking forward to its finished version.

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  22. #314
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    I would disagree and say it's lost, you can't rely on adding stuff to make it look good. You need a solid foundation or else no matter what you do the rest of the painting will look weak. The sooner you realize that sometimes you have to destroy your work and either start from scratch or make significant changes, the better. Abandon the concept, no. Abandon all the work you've done so far, yes.

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  24. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avvatar View Post
    I would disagree and say it's lost, you can't rely on adding stuff to make it look good. You need a solid foundation or else no matter what you do the rest of the painting will look weak.
    ^this.

    its funny you mention beeing lazy... thats actually the reason thumbs are done... you can do about 40-90 per hour. pick 1-3 and invest another 2 hours on working out the weaknesses. there you are after 3 hours with a solid foundation and already 2 approvals. so if your client changes direction now... you are still quite save because you got those approvals and if theres a change of mind happening for the client... he owes you something.

    you spent double the amount now and your client doesnt like it. and you got no alternative directions worked out.

    also dont think about the best framing and composition for your initial idea while doing the first pass of thumbs. think about the idea itself and how you approach it. work out different approaches, like in this (the zombie hospital scene) case: different perspective and povs, different equipment level, different ideas for what its once been and what it became and how. what is it you really want to tell, and how would you get there?

    im not getting paid for this, but i recommend that everyone reading this, gets framed ink. it imo is an amazing lesson about storytelling and what has to be in the picture and what not. get it .

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  26. #316
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    Should I get this book in combination with Color and Light: A Guide for the Realist Painter? http://www.amazon.ca/Color-Light-Gui...683177-6615661

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  27. #317
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    So I think I'm going to order Framed Ink and Digital Painting Techniques 4 (I have two, it was alright).

    Additionally, I decided on a new concept for Cg society's challenge. A Troll on his 10th cup of mead. I haven't drawn any cups yet, the 9 will be scattered on the floor at his feet.

    This is inspired from a start of a sculpture I did when I was 16-17, 5-6 years ago. It was basically a troll sitting on the rock, but only the face was sculpted. The rest of the statue was just the baked core, with no actual details on it. Maybe I should get around to sculpting that thing, the pose seemed to work well!



    Color test:


    Does this look any more promising?

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  28. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pavel Sokov View Post
    A Troll on his 10th cup of mead. I haven't drawn any cups yet, the 9 will be scattered on the floor at his feet.
    Okay so... Dude has drunk ten cups of mead just like that but he's just going strong, as if that was his first? It just looks like you're reducing the whole hilarious story potential to basically an afterthought. Because without the title/idea written out, this image has no need to nine more cups lying around the ground. This is a troll that has sat down to take a refreshing drink before continuing his way home, not a troll that has been binge drinking alcohol the whole night.
    Even if you reduce the effect of alcohol, ten pints like that will have SOME effect.

    Also to nitpick, that's not floor, that's ground.

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  30. #319
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    For some reason I'm not convinced he's sitting on anything, probably because if you removed the rock under him it would just look like he was doing some awkward balancing act. Also, the fact that he still has a huge load on his back also suggest, as tiny bird said, that he just stopped for one drink quick and will soon be on his way. And if you're going to have a small animal watching him drink he should have some kind of reaction to it, not just a blank stare. I'm guessing you liked your old troll idea, and had a bright idea of pasting a story on top without changing anything to actually tell the story.

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  32. #320
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    Damn, i'm in trouble again..

    Suncut,

    Yea that is exactly what happened sadly. I suppose I should work on the 10 cups of Ale theme a lot more, and get the owl and the troll himself more into it!

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    Do you think this might be a job for thumbnails? I think so.

    Here's a few that are hopefully less boring than "sitting troll with lobotomized smile."

    Name:  troll_thumbs.jpg
Views: 348
Size:  162.2 KB

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  35. #322
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    Damn it, you and your being right all the time, and trying to make me use my useless head while painting for once in my life...

    The hilarity of those thumbs is obvious, I laughed at a couple, the owl being a large comedic player. This is obviously a more impactful approach. We will just say the work I did so far was "character concepts", and I will make thumbnails with these same characters like a good boy. That way it feels like I didn't waste time. With the "coma" painting being a complete dud, I'm weary of lost time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pavel Sokov View Post
    We will just say the work I did so far was "character concepts", and I will make thumbnails with these same characters like a good boy. That way it feels like I didn't waste time. With the "coma" painting being a complete dud, I'm weary of lost time.
    Sure, why not? You've worked out the appearance of the troll quite well and now it's time to make him act. I'm geared towards comedy so that's the approach I took, but there's other ways to approach the painting too. He could be a sad nostalgic troll. The owl will always make things just a little ridiculous, I think, and you can use it to heighten the comedy or to relieve sadness.

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  37. #324
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    Yea, well I better start thumb-nailing images now or forever hold my peace! Haven't had time to work on him yet, and the deadline is fast approaching

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  38. #325
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    So I saw on fb, a friend was posting his alla prima oil portraits of people and it looked like too much fun. I have been working on some sort of boring stuff for another friend and wanted to take a break, so when I saw a photo of yet another friend in which he looked ridiculous, I could not resist trying to paint it. It does not advance any of my goals of entering Cg society's challenge or any of the work for my other friend, but it is a lot of fun and it allowed me to be a bit more loose and freehanded with my style and strokes.

    I will probably finish it if you guys like it a bit.



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    I updated the picture above. What do you guys think? I was trying to go a little cartoony with it, and more loose since my photographic approaches were kinda boring.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Pavel Sokov View Post
    I updated the picture above. What do you guys think? I was trying to go a little cartoony with it, and more loose since my photographic approaches were kinda boring.
    You are a much better painter than I so I don't have much to say aside from my spontanious reaction. I like the stylized and blocky approach especially on his nose and cheeks. What I don't like is that strong heavy pink around his head. It just pops out so much that you look at that pink before you look at his face.

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  42. #328
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    Thanks Frida!

    I was really struggling with the background. I find that in my portraits the backgrounds are always a highly contested area. But if the pink is not liked then it shall be fairly easy to change!

    I also think I messed up the shirt and lit it from the opposite direction then the face, which is honestly a simply stupid mistake I have not done in years. I will have to re-work that as well.

    I am also getting tired of my abstract backgrounds. Maybe it is time to man up and get a chair and some other elements in there? I will give that a go, as lately I bore myself with my plain backgrounds.

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    His whole face looks different in shape, in the painting is a lot more "flatter" and most of the shirt wrinkles and folds don't work the same way as they do in the photo.

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  45. #330
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    The reference photograph seem to have several rather diffuse light sourses, it seems like you focused on one lightsourse on his face and another on his shirt. Quite an easy mistake to make if you forget to step back and really look at the picture as a whole. If you are adding background objects you really have to be even more certain of where you want the light to be coming from.

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