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  1. #196
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    The conclusion is simple if you relate the falling of a tower to a stack of cards as opposed to a falling tree. A tree is a rigid solid structure. A stack of cards is a network of catacomb structures with tentative supporting links.

    Does a tower resemble a tree or a stack of cards?

    I'm just putting this up because I think it's funny....and still shows a scale model of the physics involved.


    Last edited by NoSeRider; September 26th, 2011 at 01:04 AM.
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  3. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoSeRider View Post
    I'm just wondering why people can't accept the simple explanation that a dozen or so Saudi Arabians, probably educated that America is the devil in Muslim Madrasas Schools, were capable of planning, hijacking and suicide crashing bus planes?

    Security was lax. The 'hijack edict' at that time was non confrontational. People assume the hijacker wants to live just as much as the hostages.

    These were low tech strategies to accomplish a goal, destroy the World Trade Center, again, and they finally succeeded.



    This is a skyscraper fire of concrete reinforced steel in Madrid Spain. The steel structure is obviously collapsing.



    The Madrid tower did not totally collapse, but the WTC building 7 did, and it was not struck by a plane. Witnesses stated that debris from the Twin towers took out 25 percent of the skyscraper foundation. The fire weakened the load bearing steel and the building collapsed.

    We have 3 towers that prove if you take out the load bearing steel beams and set it ablaze it will collapse....as opposed to somebody put some C4 in the building and blew it up.
    Well I would watch the OP video or just watch Loose Change 2 or 3. The basic conspiracy theory started imo with those guys. All lot of your questions are "answered" there.

    The Madrid Windsor building is not obviously collapsing though chunks of concrete were falling. That building was a torch for over 24 hours. Top to bottom and the steel framing did not collapse. The key is the steel framing. You have to see a video of how it looked after the flames died out. I posted it in this thread somewhere.

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  4. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoSeRider View Post


    The conclusion is simple if you relate the falling of a tower to a stack of cards as opposed to a falling tree. A tree is a rigid solid structure. A stack of cards is a network of catacomb structures with tentative supporting links.

    Does a tower resemble a tree or a stack of cards?

    I'm just putting this up because I think it's funny....and still shows a scale model of the physics involved.
    But the onsite construction manager, prior to 911 (he died that day) also had a physical model of the towers being hit by a plane. Like the stack of cards, it was conceptually simple and based on real life items:


    The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.


    http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html

    And like I said simplicity of itself doesn't determine truthfulness, for example the planets following circular orbits around earth is conceptually simpler than the planets following elliptical paths around the sun.

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  5. #199
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    Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth.http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/windsor.html

    The observation that the Windsor Building is the only skyscraper to have suffered even a partial collapse as a result of fire suggests that the use of steel-reinforced-concrete framing was responsible. A closer look at the incident shows reality to be more complex. The portion of the building that collapsed consisted of the outer portions of floor slabs and perimeter walls throughout the upper third of the building (the 21st through 32nd floors). The outer walls consisted of steel box columns arranged on 1.8 meter centers and connected by narrow spandrel plates. The columns had square cross-sections 120mm on a side, and were fabricated of C-sections 7mm thick welded together. (these had a fraction of the dimensions, and were spaced about twice as far apart as the perimeter columns of the Twin Towers.) The perimeter columns lacked fireproofing throughout the upper third of the Windsor building.
    The Windsor Building had a partial collapse where the steel was not reinforced with concrete, where concrete serves as fire proofing.

    WTC were fire proofed with some sort of sprayed on fire retardant that did not have the rigidity of concrete. The fire retardant in the WTC would have been blown off by the impact of the plane.

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  6. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by psyopjunkie View Post
    So Randis if you are willing to have a serious discussion let me know. I can link to books on critical thinking if you need help.

    You do not have a base for a serious discussion and your so called 'evidence' is made out of googled photos, random testimonies, interpretation of random video snippets, claims, more claims, bullshit, pseudo science and the book you are trying to advertise.

    Do not even start talking about critical thinking, most of your claims simply fail on the most simple logical level and can not be takes seriously.
    You maybe did read about the concept of critical thinking on the backside of some book cover but clearly you lack the capacity to apply it in your own thinking process. Conspiracy nutters are not exactly role models in critical thinking if you know what i mean.
    You have a distorted paradigm, you see only what you want to see.

    You merely consume information and take into account solely the fragments that confirm your existing beliefs but you fail at filtering and rationalizing observations that do not fit in.
    You ignore established facts and feedback from the outside and constantly fall back into your pattern of quotations and repetitive responses to certain questions that you can not answer.
    In other words, your bullshit filter is broken.

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  8. #201
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    Fantastic work NoSeRider you've switched from the Pharisees mentality to being a disciplined thinker. Being a disciplined thinker doesn't mean you have to take one position or anything, you just need to debate using evidence and logic.

    Let's summarise:

    NoSeRider claim: 911 collapses were similar to madrid collapse
    Jason Ross counterclaim: madrid was only a partial collapse, and conditions were different
    NoSeRider countercounterclaim: the partial collapse in madrid was due to an absence of fireproofing, and a different absence of fireproofing led to the total collapse of the WTC

    See how NoSeRiders position can be evaluated objectively. Did an absense of fireproofing occur in Madrid? Did it occur in the two towers? (according to NIST it did) etc. Even if we don't all agree we're still learning about interesting things like concrete, how does it work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randis View Post
    You do not have a base for a serious discussion
    Disciplined thinkers know to define terms. What is the 'base' for a serious discussion? A knowledge of science? Logic? Etiquette?

    Again usual 'Pharisees' argument, you fall within the boundary, I don't, and you don't have to explain why, you'll just throw some big words around like 'paradigm'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randis View Post
    and your so called 'evidence' is made out of googled photos, random testimonies, interpretation of random video snippets, claims, more claims, bullshit, pseudo science and the book you are trying to advertise.
    I think photos, witness testimonies are typically considered 'evidence'. As for the pseudo-science claim, a lot of the theory for nuclear demolition is in peer review journal articles. For example: "The Containment of Soviet Underground Nuclear Explosions" "Nuclear" Bunker Busters" Would More Likely Disperse than Destroy Buried Stockpiles of Biological and Chemical Agents" Try using google scholar and getting more informed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Randis View Post
    Do not even start talking about critical thinking, most of your claims simply fail on the most simple logical level and can not be takes seriously.
    Can you give an example? For instance, I pointed out Kev's Pearl Harbour argument was illogical, though according to this articles terminology it might have been better to say it was 'unsound' http://www.csicop.org/si/show/field_...tical_thinking . Maybe you should read that article and apply some of the principles instead of resorting to pathetic name calling: "
    You maybe did read about the concept of critical thinking on the backside of some book cover "? lol for you it was clearly the back of a cornflakes box

    You merely consume information and take into account solely the fragments that confirm your existing beliefs but you fail at filtering and rationalizing observations that do not fit in.
    You ignore established facts and feedback from the outside and constantly fall back into your pattern of quotations and repetitive responses to certain questions that you can not answer.
    In other words, your bullshit filter is broken.
    Again you can't give examples so this is just generalizations and prejudice about conspiracy theorists. I distinguished Dimitri's book from other conspiracy theorists and said IT WAS UP TO YOU TO SHOW HIS BOOK CONFORMED TO THE PATTERN, and to do that you'd need to READ IT. And I implied you were too thick to read. And you just keep on spouting those generalisations, confirming that. Will Smith didn't get to you early enough with his running and reading program, did he?

    Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth.

    In other words, your bullshit filter is broken.
    No WMD in Iraq shows many people lack a bullshit filter for official information.

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  9. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by psyopjunkie View Post
    Will Smith didn't get to you early enough with his running and reading program, did he?

    Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth.

    Hey bro, THAT'S RACIST !

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  10. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahim View Post
    Hey bro, THAT'S RACIST !
    This was the only image I could find from Will Smith's running and reading program:

    Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth.

    Not very inspirational, unlike the reading rainbow. Maybe this image is to do with the running and reading program too, like don't do both at the at the same time, could run through a window and hurt yourself:

    Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth.

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  11. #204
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    Psyopjunkie, do you get a commission for the book sales or is the writer your BF or something?

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  12. #205
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    The purpose of a blast furnace is to chemically reduce and physically convert iron oxides into liquid iron called "hot metal". The blast furnace is a huge, steel stack lined with refractory brick, where iron ore, coke and limestone are dumped into the top, and preheated air is blown into the bottom. The raw materials require 6 to 8 hours to descend to the bottom of the furnace where they become the final product of liquid slag and liquid iron. At furnace temperatures of about 1800 °C, give or take 200 degrees, these liquid products are molten and trickle down to collect in the base of the furnace, or hearth, where they are extracted at regular intervals. The hot air that was blown into the bottom of the furnace ascends to the top in 6 to 8 seconds after going through numerous chemical reactions.
    http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/JohnChu.shtml



    http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm#molten


    Steel has remained the veritable backbone of the building industry since it became easier to produce the alloy in the 17th century. But the heating process that allows engineers to create steel can also be its undoing: Above 750 F, steel starts to lose its structural integrity, and at 1100 F, steel loses 50 percent of its strength.
    http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...4244302?page=2

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    Last edited by NoSeRider; September 26th, 2011 at 11:23 AM.
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  14. #206
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    Just out of curiousity, doesn't the 3 WTC buildings free falling (0 resistance) at least seem out of character? They aren't physically supposed to do that based on the damage they took that day and the subsequent evidence provided. And I'm in no way debating about what hit the towers. But I have experts on one side who say it's one way and I have experts on the other side who say, well, no, that's not 100% correct.

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  16. #207
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    Why do you accept what you were told as opposed to what you see?

    Why do you believe the towers should not have fallen the way they did based on what you were told?

    An educated guess can still be a guess.

    I'd rather believe in hippie bullshit then conspiracy bullshit.


    Last edited by NoSeRider; September 26th, 2011 at 12:39 PM.
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  17. #208
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