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Thread: Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth.

  1. #241
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    You're wrong about that however well intentioned it may be - I never left the Lounge. I am often here in the morning reading. I don't think there's been more than a few days I haven't visited CA in some capacity.

    As I watch this documentary I'm really thrilled about how far the architects group has come. When they formed I breathed a sigh of relief because I knew they would sort out all of the facts to help us laymen understand what was going on.

    I also get the feeling alot of the people involved in the bald-faced denial of the collapse have had their lives or their families lives threatened in some way in order to silence them. What else could prompt such unscientific opinions in an official capacity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Ross View Post
    2.3 trillion dollars may be well worth the risk.
    How much do you think it would cost to achieve all the things I listed?
    Have you any idea how many people would have to be involved and the logistical impossiblity of keeping them quiet assuming you had twice that money to spend?
    And then keeping those people quiet who where making sure those people were quiet.
    And then having done ALL THAT to forget to do the easy thing of faking the footage to avoid it looking like a cover up?

    The word 'truther' is an oxymoron. They are people who want to escape from the world and a conspiracy theory provides them with a white rabbit to follow.

    Last edited by Chris Bennett; October 11th, 2011 at 08:02 AM. Reason: spelling
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    It's funny, I went into this thread being sort of 'agnostic' about the whole thing. But the more I read the more convinced I am that there isn't any sort of conspiracy going on.

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    It must be a government conspiracy!

    But where did all the evidence go?
    USA shipped it to CHINA before it could be examined.

    very clever!

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    I've deleted what I posted because I'm just repeating myself now.

    Last edited by Eric Lofgren; October 11th, 2011 at 12:48 PM.
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  9. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bennett View Post
    How much do you think it would cost to achieve all the things I listed?
    Threats are pretty cheap. If I were told by the right people to stfu...I would. A lot of people were promoted post 9-11 considering all the screw ups. Basically people said "Ooops." and ended up with better jobs afterwards. Who was fired or reprimanded for the failures of 9-11? Promotions would be a good way to keep people quiet.
    Have you any idea how many people would have to be involved and the logistical impossiblity of keeping them quiet assuming you had twice that money to spend?And then keeping those people quiet who where making sure those people were quiet.
    I don't get this line of reasoning. I mean the only people that would "whistle
    blow" are the ones that have motivation to talk. Getting heard by the media would be an incredible feat to itself. Who would talk considering who is "alleged" at being involved. 3k+ Americans were murdered that day. One more who decides to talk? Would you talk?

    And then having done ALL THAT to forget to do the easy thing of faking the footage to avoid it looking like a cover up?
    Well that's a conspiracy all to itself and people believe just that. No planers cover that. But here's a no planer named "Jeff from Canada" calling the FBI. His surprise is awesome.



    Quote Originally Posted by Naomi Ningishzidda View Post
    Putting Kev and Kamber on ignore was the BEST thing I did on CA in 2010. Their opinions change from thread to thread so you will quickly figure out what they are up to. Their only opinions will be in opposition to people they think they can rile up - do not waste your breath on them.
    This is an art forum and ignoring these two are a mistake. Ignoring anyone on this forum based on their opinions in the lounge is a sign that you need to avoid the lounge. I understand that you may be on my side of the argument, but you should consider what's being lost.

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  11. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Ross View Post

    Well that's a conspiracy all to itself and people believe just that. No planers cover that. But here's a no planer named "Jeff from Canada" calling the FBI. His surprise is awesome.



    That was hilarious. We at least now know that Tony is heading up the FBI's X-Files division

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Ross View Post
    3k+ Americans were murdered that day. One more who decides to talk? Would you talk?
    So. A body of people who are secretly running America decide to solicit the services and complicity of hundreds of thousands of people to secretly engineer a fake attack that murdered 3k+ of their fellow countrymen in order to 'make some money' (however that works).
    How on EARTH are they going to be able to do that?

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    This is an art forum and ignoring these two are a mistake. Ignoring anyone on this forum based on their opinions in the lounge is a sign that you need to avoid the lounge. I understand that you may be on my side of the argument, but you should consider what's being lost.
    You may have the time to absorb the world of shit people wade in every day, but I do not - advising someone to listen to everyone including those who have terrible logic, terrible writing skills, and a penchant for alcoholic/argumentative interaction is as imbecilic in action as advising everyone who enjoys science fiction to read every single science fiction book ever written. If you tried to read the every post on this forum it would take you years.

    I prefer to work smarter, not harder - if either of these two want to say anything interesting, it will be passed on through the quotes of other members of the forum, thus far I have seen nothing of interest and remain quite assured of the intelligence of my decision.

    A new kind of communication is germinating in humanity which is being spurred on by the 'information overload' phenomenon - those who are not able to navigate the new onslaught of data coming at us from the internet will become the predecessors of the future species - doomed to obscurity and eventually extinction.

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    Be as flowery as you wish but locking yourself in an echo chamber and shutting out all dissent isn't healthy. You're just hardening your own opinions and making less room for growth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randis View Post
    It must be a government conspiracy!

    But where did all the evidence go?
    USA shipped it to CHINA before it could be examined.

    very clever!
    yes, this is actually true.

    good point randis

    the steel and rubble was immediately shipped to china and sold at a worse rate than it would have been even inside the us (owner lost money, chinese/indians won money).

    As for whether it was a conspiracy, of course it was.

    You people just don't want your fragile little world to come crumbling down, and can't accept that you're not making a difference in the massive scale of things. "Don't rock the boat" is what's going on here.

    The official 9/11 commission said in 2006 with their book "We felt we were set up to fail" (and did).

    belief in coincidence is the superstition of this age.

    when there are hundreds and hundreds of "coincidences", it's time to see if there are connections.

    Remember operation northwoods: the us/cia/fbi etc have made plans to attack their own people for a pretext for war before, and carried them out.
    same thing in ancient rome, same thing in germany in 1934.

    Be well!

    Remember: the truth is the truth

    Check out my journal if you like, i'm happy to discuss this and would be grateful for a logical point by point rebuttal, if you can, so far i've only been dissapointed, as for now, remember wtc 7 and larry silverstein speaking with his insurance agent about whether he could "pull it" and then telling the firemen to "pull it" when the fire chief says: no one was inside the building (only possible conclusion: controlled demolition (which takes weeks to set up)).

    it's a joke, wake up guys! You're living in a fantasy
    Remember bill hicks: It's just a ride!

    Obama is just as bought and paid for as all the other politicians and has not kept any of his major promises.Remember all that fuss and hype? Yeah, it's painful to remember that we bought into a lie.

    the america of george washington, abe lincoln, benjamin franklin & so on is fast fading away. No nation can survive traitors, hypocrites or cowards in places of authority. remember the dancing israeli "art students" who appeared on tv to "film the event". Yeah.

    i'm not emotionally attached to 9/11 in particular, it just seems obvious it's not as the 'authorities' are telling you.

    I'll leave you with a quote from plato and a link to devart:

    It must be most difficult for those who mistake the authority for truth,
    instead of looking at truth as the authority.

    http://helioth.deviantart.com/journal/44022054/

    (save your bla-bla conditioned replies, look into your hearts before you say anything, quiet your mind, you know something isn't right, democracy doesn't exist as you're sold it, and anyway, america is a REPUBLIC (tell me about how involved you are, LOL!), the nwo approaches, the dollar and euro will crash soon, be ready Very mainstream figures such as noam chomsky point out plain facts which are ignored and marginalized FAR FAR worse than 911, reality is a cold shower)

    ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by s.ketch View Post
    Actually it wasn't a missile. It was a projectile from the Navy's rail gun.
    That second paragraph is interesting. Can you please provide evidence to prove that the US Navy had rail guns completed in 2001? As far as i know, they expect to be finished with their first batch by 2014.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Challie View Post
    That second paragraph is interesting. Can you please provide evidence to prove that the US Navy had rail guns completed in 2001? As far as i know, they expect to be finished with their first batch by 2014.
    It wasn't a missile because there are no pictures of missiles. The only photo evidence is a few blurry pictures from a gas station across the street. Plus there was no shrapnel of missiles found. With all those cameras and stuff around you'd think one would capture a picture of a missile. Too bad we'll never know because the evidence was locked away within hours of the attack.

    It's widely known that tungsten slugs, used by the rail guns, disintegrate on impact. That's why there's no physical evidence of it remaining.

    And you think the government only releases new technology when it's finished? Nope. The SR-71 Blackbird was in use years before it was released.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bennett View Post
    ... complicity of hundreds of thousands of people to secretly...
    It would only take a handful of people to allow the attack to happen. I don't know why you think it would take so many. The world changed because of 9-11. The majority of people only really think about all those lives lost one day out of the year. A lot of people in the "truther" movement are family members of people that died that day.

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    a lot of names you probably haven't heard.

    very very well made & researched.





    also pretty good...



    watch this if you need a boost, haha, epic "the love police strikes back"
    hug a thon.

    this should be in the cheer me up thread if it isnt already.

    Last edited by samthemule; October 12th, 2011 at 03:59 AM.
    ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Ross View Post
    It would only take a handful of people to allow the attack to happen. I don't know why you think it would take so many.
    What about the people preparing all the 737 debris?
    Those transporting it?
    Those distributing it?
    Those making sure no one saw them doing it?

    Those providing the services for the teams?
    Those telling the regular police and security to keep out?
    Those preparing the missile?
    Those shutting down air space protocol to allow it to fly in unrecorded?
    Those in charge wondering why air space protocol had been shut down?
    Those who tell those in charge to keep quiet?

    Those putting the heat on the commercial airline to lie about the missing aircraft?
    Those hundreds of people involved in the airline who were made to keep quiet by the airline?

    Those making the bombs to go under the Towers?
    Those putting the bombs under the Towers?
    The security people involved in making sure no one saw them putting the bombs under the towers?
    Those in the clean up operation who were told to keep quiet about what they found?
    Those doing the telling of them to keep quiet about what they found?

    The families of the people involved?


    I could go on and on... But hopefully you'll get the point.
    Look at the number of people involved in making an average movie let along nuking the middle of New York, flying missiles into the Pentagon and forcing a commercial airline to keep quiet about murdering its own passangers. ALL under the eyes of the entire planet's media AND covering it all up so that the only people getting suspicious are a few nut cases with some blurry YouTube mpegs.

    Last edited by Chris Bennett; October 12th, 2011 at 05:52 AM.
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    You make a fair point, Chris.

    But some of those points you raise really aren't clandestine as it is. The clean up and removal of the debris was seen by millions of people. The issue there is that it was removed far too quickly. Regarding suspicious debris, that is covered nicely in the very first video posted in this thread. The only mystery regarding it is why it was found in the debris field to begin with and not covered adequately in the NIST report. As for air space protocol, that is some irony in and of itself, as air space protocol, from what I understand, is in place to actually prevent what happened that day, but was no where to be seen. So when you think of it, given the status of that particular day, it would seem to have been easy to get a missile into the Pentagon, considering the differences between a massive passenger aircraft flying erractically over Washington DC (or wherever the Pentagon is located) for hours, compared to a targeted low flying missile about 1/24th (?) the size of an airliner.

    As for sheer numbers of conspirators, the official report has it that it only takes a group of 19 men to do it (no doubt with some coaching from a few others in the Middle East first). 19 men who were able to hijack 4 passenger planes out from under our noses and fly them into key buildings in the USA. Anyone can extrapolate there from those numbers. The bottom line is that it only takes as little as 19 people to do it and presumably as many to pay off if they survive. I realize that that number in no way accurately reflects what some are suggesting in the way of a home grown conspiracy. But there's still no reason to think that it took ALL of Washington to do it or be in on it. And paying off people doesn't really count as people in power seem to have historically shown they will do anything for money to begin with. Look what 19 people have been shown to accomplish fueled on faith and hatred alone.

    I'm not being combative here. I'm just pointing out how the whole thing seems so ridiculous right from the out set.

    Last edited by Eric Lofgren; October 12th, 2011 at 12:08 PM.
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  29. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bennett View Post
    What about the people preparing all the 737 debris?
    Those transporting it?
    Those distributing it?
    Those making sure no one saw them doing it?

    Those providing the services for the teams?
    Those telling the regular police and security to keep out?
    Those preparing the missile?
    Those shutting down air space protocol to allow it to fly in unrecorded?
    Those in charge wondering why air space protocol had been shut down?
    Those who tell those in charge to keep quiet?

    Those putting the heat on the commercial airline to lie about the missing aircraft?
    Those hundreds of people involved in the airline who were made to keep quiet by the airline?

    Those making the bombs to go under the Towers?
    Those putting the bombs under the Towers?
    The security people involved in making sure no one saw them putting the bombs under the towers?
    Those in the clean up operation who were told to keep quiet about what they found?
    Those doing the telling of them to keep quiet about what they found?

    The families of the people involved?


    I could go on and on... But hopefully you'll get the point.
    Look at the number of people involved in making an average movie let along nuking the middle of New York, flying missiles into the Pentagon and forcing a commercial airline to keep quiet about murdering its own passangers. ALL under the eyes of the entire planet's media AND covering it all up so that the only people getting suspicious are a few nut cases with some blurry YouTube mpegs.
    what's more suspicious, the thing you mention, or the fact that the man who was on television the same day as the towers collapsed was caught talking about war with iran and iraq the same day? also that he is ceo of some major defense company.

    and that he was the one who found the pristine passport of one of the 'mad arabs', lieing around the towers, just by chance.
    WHEN THE TITANIUM BLACKBOXES WERE DESTROYED! completely. You know titanium? the stuff that's stronger than steel? And lots of steel was not destroyed? And a passport survives unscratched?

    lol

    you do know the cia admitted that al qaeda is the name for 'the database' of mujahideen warriors THEY trained in the cold war to fight against russia, right?

    the argument can go on and on, but what really needs to happen is you need to ask yourself is if you are emotionally attached to the official story, or if you really want to see the truth.

    Peace.

    As for ridiculous and unlikely, this was aired on the corbett report:



    These are the facts as the department of defense lists them.

    If this does not wake you up, well... you must be very very fast asleep,
    or pretending to be asleep.

    ...
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    And a passport survives unscratched?
    Stranger things have happened. If it was propelled away by the explosion before the heat made it disintegrate it's completely possible for it to have survived. Unlike the blackbox which I assume was fastened securely in the plane and therefore would be in the center of all the heat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tobbA View Post
    Stranger things have happened. If it was propelled away by the explosion before the heat made it disintegrate it's completely possible for it to have survived. Unlike the blackbox which I assume was fastened securely in the plane and therefore would be in the center of all the heat.
    I remember after the Challenger explosion, one of the items they found were one of the crew members socks D:

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    Quote Originally Posted by s.ketch View Post
    Be as flowery as you wish but locking yourself in an echo chamber and shutting out all dissent isn't healthy. You're just hardening your own opinions and making less room for growth.
    ignoring two people out of the couple million who have internet isn't exactly on par with being some kind of weird shut-in.

    I'm guessing the next thing you tell me is that I should add Justin Bieber to my playlist and hang Thomas Kincaid on my wall to be more openminded.

    Adults don't have time for this shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naomi Ningishzidda View Post
    ignoring two people out of the couple million who have internet isn't exactly on par with being some kind of weird shut-in.

    I'm guessing the next thing you tell me is that I should add Justin Bieber to my playlist and hang Thomas Kincaid on my wall to be more openminded.

    Adults don't have time for this shit.
    you're good at arguing.


    adults are good at complicating things and confusing themselves and telling themselves how complicated everything is.
    sometimes children see things clearly, because at root they are simple, and adults cannot see this: it is blinding with how obvious it is.

    guess that doesn't have much to do with this subject, just sayin'.

    errm, what was i saying... oh yeah, how important adults are and stuff.

    as for blurry videos and nutcases posting stuff on youtube, richard gage and his other 1508 other architect, engineer, insurance, fire brigade, explosive demolitions experts, army vets and so on, do they belong in that category?

    i like how people talk about not stereotyping and generalizing and have access to all these wonderful ways of thinking, and then when there is something they don't want to think about, just don't use these methods, in fact, do the opposite, when if they looked within, they would realize pretty soon: shit, something must be wrong; i've got my hands in my ears and i'm singing lalala -can't hear you.

    Last edited by samthemule; October 12th, 2011 at 06:12 PM.
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  35. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by samthemule View Post
    the argument can go on and on, but what really needs to happen is you need to ask yourself is if you are emotionally attached to the official story, or if you really want to see the truth.
    I have no emotional attachment - in fact it would be much more fun to think that the powers that be had cooked it up. Just like it would be much more fun if we were being visited by aliens or that ghosts existed.

    So in a sense I'm biased - life would be more fun if this stuff were true.
    But the evidence for this is nothing but conjecture. That is to say, a big fat zero.
    The evidence being for what the official story described it to be is enormous.

    So if you don't mind, I'll stick with that. Unless something turns up that's more compelling and I'm quite happy to accept it. As the saying goes: 'Extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence'.

    Nothing that has been said or shown here is evidence, let alone compelling evidence, let alone extrodinary evidence.

    If that should ever happen I'll be happy to think about it.
    Until then folks... I'll turn my mind to more deserving things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by s.ketch View Post
    It wasn't a missile because there are no pictures of missiles.
    Pix or it didn't happen

    With all those cameras and stuff around you'd think one would capture a picture of a missile.
    Yes, fair point.

    It's widely known that tungsten slugs, used by the rail guns, disintegrate on impact. That's why there's no physical evidence of it remaining.
    Hmm, this is interesting. Thanks for letting me know that tungsten slugs are used, as i was under the false impression it used depleted uranium. That's a pretty damn hard material. However, i would think that a rail gun strike would punch its way right through the Pentagon. It's traveling at almost Mach 8, but i have no idea how far away the ocean is. Then there's the Pentagon's architecture to consider, which must be pretty damn fortified, so yeah..

    And you think the government only releases new technology when it's finished? Nope.
    I am aware of that, it's just the gullibility that gets me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naomi Ningishzidda View Post
    ignoring two people out of the couple million who have internet isn't exactly on par with being some kind of weird shut-in.

    I'm guessing the next thing you tell me is that I should add Justin Bieber to my playlist and hang Thomas Kincaid on my wall to be more openminded.

    Adults don't have time for this shit.
    You seriously underestimate the motives and wisdom of one of the people you ignored. Point is, I'm sure those couple million don't rock your boat as much as the people you ignored. If they did, you'd gladly ignore them too.

    And while we're on the subject of adulthood (lol). Adults have priorities. Children who sit around and tell ghost stories don't. You don't have time to have your opinions deflated? Yet you have plenty of time to gab with like-minded individuals and fire off the same recycled memes at each other.

    Dissing Justin Bieber is soooooo 2010.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tobbA View Post
    Stranger things have happened.
    Yeah, like the worlds two tallest skyscrapers both collapsing from planes crashing into them after never happening before in history and a third huge building also unprecedentedly collapsing from a tiny fire caused by fallen ash.

    Sorry, had to say it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bennett View Post
    The evidence being for what the official story described it to be is enormous.

    So if you don't mind, I'll stick with that. Unless something turns up that's more compelling and I'm quite happy to accept it. As the saying goes: 'Extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence'.

    Nothing that has been said or shown here is evidence, let alone compelling evidence, let alone extrodinary evidence.
    You're entitled to your own opinion so if you don't want to believe it, that's fine. But to say that a compelling argument isn't made or that there isn't at least some reasonability to the claims, then you lose all reasonability yourself. If you don't question it AT ALL, and merely set it aside as worthless conjecture, then you are simply closing your eyes. Like my saying goes, if you don't question your own beliefs, you don't believe anything at all. It seems to me like you (and most people who dismiss the conspiracy) are simply shutting the door on any possibility whatsoever, and that's foolish. (The first reply-er to this thread showcases the epitome of this)

    And I'm willing to bet that if, in a pre 9/11 world, a book was written with this exact same plot, where some government claimed 19 idiots planned and carried out the most devastating, complicated, convoluted attack to ever occur against the most heavily defended, technologically advanced country in the world (and their next genius plot was a bomb in some guys underwear, no less) and the exact same conspiracy theory surfaced, and this book was written into a movie and the movie was a giant blockbuster with Leonardo DiCaprio in it, 90% of people would be like "yeah dude, the government definitely did it".


    Also, with apologies if it was covered previously in this thread, what is the extraordinary evidence the government has produced?

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    Quote Originally Posted by s.ketch View Post
    It wasn't a missile because there are no pictures of missiles. The only photo evidence is a few blurry pictures from a gas station across the street. Plus there was no shrapnel of missiles found. With all those cameras and stuff around you'd think one would capture a picture of a missile.
    I find it very difficult to believe that after 10 years the best footage we've been given is 5 frames in which my cell phone has better resolution and frame rate. The nerve center of our trillion dollar military infrastructure and 5 frames... With all those cameras is correct. They couldn't even catch a 757 let alone a missile. If a plane really did hit the pentagon we would've seen it by now as a constant reminder of how afraid we need to be. However if a missile hit it, then we'd never see that. There were other cameras that should've caught something yet 5 frames truly the best? An aluminum plane penetrating bomb resistant walls at a 45 degree angle through 3 rings is something that I find hard to believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bennett View Post
    What about the people preparing....
    I stated "allow" to happen which is different than executing. At minimum imo some people in position had foreknowledge and allowed it to happen. This scenario would'nt take that many people. Even if a missile hit, it wouldn't take a lot of people to cover it up. There are only a few possibilities about 9-11. We were completely surprised, some Americans knew about it and allowed it to happen, or some Americans planned it to some degree. I think some new about it, knew about the highjackers, and"helped" it succeed. As far as Americans planting bombs here or there is something that runs too far on speculation for anyone to come close to proving. But I would say that the sentence,"This is a matter of National Security. Speak of what you see and find here to no one." is all it would take to keep people quiet. Soldiers following orders for their country. These high jackers were not a suprise.


    But even with the list you provided, there still wouldn't need to be hundreds let alone thousands. Too much to respond to one at a time.

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