Archons and some conspiracy theories
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    Archons and some conspiracy theories

    pointless stuff, i was wrong

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    Last edited by Max Challie; November 10th, 2012 at 04:16 AM.
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    i tried reading but then i got photokeratitis

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    If you're into this kind of stuff you should definitely read some Philip K. Dick.

    He's not the greatest writer in terms of craft, but he certainly had ideas that no one else was having at the time.

    The latter half of his life and work was spent exploring Gnosticism as he tried to figure out what was wrong with him. He was trying to resolve whether or not he was actually receiving messages from a higher power or just schizophrenic. The book VALIS is semi-autobiographical and steeped in Gnosticism. Since Dick was living in modern times he was able to use metaphors from scientific and technological concepts that the ancient Gnostics didn't have in order the more clearly explain what he perceived the situation to be. VALIS is in fact his name for "The One True God." It's an acronym for "Vast Active Living Intelligence System" and in his mind was the clearest description for what he thought "The One True God" is.

    Gnosticism (and Philip K. Dick) have kind of infiltrated pop culture and mainstream consciousness at this point. The most obvious example being The Matrix. Just replace "Archon" with "Agent" and you have the plot for The Matrix (plus Kung Fu of course).

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    That was pretty interesting because now I know what an Archon is. Those people should probably talk to a psychiatrist though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tobbA View Post
    That was pretty interesting because now I know what an Archon is. Those people should probably talk to a psychiatrist though...
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    Mmmmm.. Conspiracy theories..

    I think the biggest conspiracy is that there ain't none.

    Especially those who use religious texts to back up their claims, i.e. Von Daniken and now this.

    There is no big reason why we behave like we do. We're just territorial, aggressive herd-animals who don't have sex only for the sole reason of reproduction and happen to be highly intelligent, because of evolution and diet.

    There is no higher power, only us capable of fantazising about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpacer View Post
    If you're into this kind of stuff you should definitely read some Philip K. Dick.

    He's not the greatest writer in terms of craft, but he certainly had ideas that no one else was having at the time.
    I never got around to reading many of hos stories, but I did see some of the films based on them, e.g. "Total Recall." His work has been described as "multi-layered paranoia," which strikes me as very apt: the deeper you go into the mystery, the more conspiracies you uncover until you have no idea anymore of who you even are.

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    Wow, that guy is a nutjob. I love this stuff but I wish they'd do their research a little better and not lead with provably false declarations that invalidate the rest of their ideas. It spoils the fun when they demonstrate that they are idiots before even making their first point. The queen of England owns one sixth of the world? Alexandria was the first library?

    And why are they called 'archons'? I thought an archon was an ancient athenian political officer somewhat similar in scope and power to a roman consul. Do you think he just called them that because he plays starcraft and they have archons in that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atreides View Post
    Wow, that guy is a nutjob. I love this stuff but I wish they'd do their research a little better and not lead with provably false declarations that invalidate the rest of their ideas. It spoils the fun when they demonstrate that they are idiots before even making their first point. The queen of England owns one sixth of the world? Alexandria was the first library?
    I don't know whether or not that is true, but the Queen's arm extends to Australia (large landmass), New Zealand, and possibly other areas. In terms of your general point, i completely agree.

    And why are they called 'archons'? I thought an archon was an ancient athenian political officer somewhat similar in scope and power to a roman consul. Do you think he just called them that because he plays starcraft and they have archons in that?
    Not likely, unless you're joking. This goes back past the Roman Empire, but the name could well be fabricated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mossi View Post
    Mmmmm.. Conspiracy theories..
    I think the biggest conspiracy is that there ain't none.
    We all have a choice. A choice to be comfortably unaware, or uncomfortably aware. The ratio, in general, is 3000:1. This statement of ratio is a guesstimation based on my observation of society, and does not in any way pertain to "evidence" that would usually be scientifically proven by science through method of statistics. My next sentence will most likely amplify the perception that i am 'paranoid'; statistics, because they are based on numbers, can be modified by those who create them via a keyboard. We (the general public of the developed world) do not see what these official people* do, we do not know which statistics are modified. And because they brand an official image, most of us believe what they say. Please refer to my statement on Common Law at the bottom of this post in the unlikely case you would like more information.

    *People - there is a lot of authority dominating us, which is done, presumably, by people. Humans, like us (biologically speaking, although the psychological elements often differ. Note the word often).

    Especially those who use religious texts to back up their claims, i.e. Von Daniken and now this.
    What implies that religion is something solid? Something to be used to back up any claim? In the case of this article, i think it is more about history than religion.

    There is no big reason why we behave like we do. We're just territorial, aggressive herd-animals who don't have sex only for the sole reason of reproduction and happen to be highly intelligent, because of evolution and diet.
    For what reason do you speak for everyone? What reason do you have to generalize 'everyone' as territorial, or aggressive? In terms of the majority, i agree. However, the statement of 'highly intelligent' does not apply to this group. To deny this would be an inability to see what we are truly capable of.

    There is no higher power, only us capable of fantazising about it
    What evidence do you have to rightfully suggest that there is no higher power? This is very clearly a statement that conveys an emotional need to remain comfortable; comfortable in a state of unawareness. By saying this, are you denying the very existance of government? Corporations? Are you denying their rather obvious use of each entity's related death squads, including Special Forces units? Or families such as Rothschild, so rich, they can do anything they want to anyone they want wherever they want?
    The smily face at the end makes it clear to me that the answer is yes, but i don't want to put words in your mouth.

    Quote Originally Posted by tobbA View Post
    That was pretty interesting because now I know what an Archon is. Those people should probably talk to a psychiatrist though...
    It is often said by the general public (aka sheeple) that in the case of an individual not behaving like the group, there must be something wrong with them; 'he is talking about conspiracy theories, a psychiatrist will be recommended'
    'excuse me, sir. you appear to be happy. we are concerned'

    Quote Originally Posted by blogmatix View Post
    I never got around to reading many of hos stories, but I did see some of the films based on them, e.g. "Total Recall." His work has been described as "multi-layered paranoia," which strikes me as very apt: the deeper you go into the mystery, the more conspiracies you uncover until you have no idea anymore of who you even are.
    I have not seen Total Recall, but will have to now. What you're describing is an interesting concept, to me.
    On 'multi-layered paranoia': the only 'multi-layered' creation i can think of, in terms of what is actually happening, is heavily multi-layered lies. These go back decades, if not centuries. Our society has been in a slow burning process of engineering since long before the industrial revolution, although that event is paramount (and 'education' systems are directly related to this).
    As for paranoia, i have observed that many people call others 'paranoid' for being aware or generally interested in the truth.


    For those of you who disagree with me, i appreciate it if you would think about a few things. Why do we drive vehicles powered by materials taken from deep under the earth, when far more sustainable technology has been available since pretty much day one? Our resources have always been here. Why do we intentionally cause harm to others? Quite often, it comes from what has been done to us. Most if not all abuse is nothing more than passing it down the chain. Why do we create belief systems in which anyone who is not loyal is outcasted, hunted, murdered? Why do we pick sides, if we are all the same biological creature? Why do we sit in front of a television set and willingly listen to what is said to us, all the while not even thinking to question what it is they are saying? Is it really not a possibility that the official people are lying?

    On Common Law:
    I do not know the entire subject of this, and that is why i am not completely safe from the law that is currently in place. The law that is currently in place, most of it, is made up of statuets. Ammendments. It is not real law. We can actually do anything we want as long as it does not harm other people or their property. All of us have Birth Certificates, and for that reason all of us have a million dollars. This bank account, The Treasury, is constantly gaining interest. I do not know what it is called in America, but in New Zealand we have IRD numbers which is what an employer needs in order to pay us. The IRD number is the bank account number.

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    The text contrast in the images burned my eyes, and as soon I noticed "HAARP" in that quote I was like "FFFFFFFFF... OH MY GOD NOT THIS CRAP AGAIN". Seriously.

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    It is often said by the general public (aka sheeple) that in the case of an individual not behaving like the group, there must be something wrong with them; 'he is talking about conspiracy theories, a psychiatrist will be recommended'
    'excuse me, sir. you appear to be happy. we are concerned'
    Well, yes. The definition of a psychological disorder is having a personality that deviates (strongly) from the social norm. Different cultures have different definitions. However happiness and psychological disorders don't generally go hand in hand, unless you're manic depressive.

    Why do we drive vehicles powered by materials taken from deep under the earth, when far more sustainable technology has been available since pretty much day one?
    Because at the time the car was invented petrol was cheap and noone really needed it for anything else.

    Why do we pick sides, if we are all the same biological creature?
    Because we're designed as pack creatures. We trust our closest and distrust those we do not know. Until a few thousand years ago this was the surest way to survival.

    I think it's good that you're asking these questions. Now you need to start looking for the answers. And stay away from the religious mumbo jumbo.

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    I believe there is an ancient city buried under the ground in the Cydonia region of Mars and that NASA has deliberately covered up the evidence and perpetuated a campaign of misinformation in order to discourage further exploration.

    I believe that because it is amusing and somewhat plausible. Maybe I'm a nutjob too, but these guys are trying to explain all human venality by blaming it on demons. There is definitely some funky stuff in ancient religious texts, but only if you read them from a rational point of view. These guys are basically just saying that demons are real and want to make you do bad things.

    Verdict: 10 out of 10 for pure nutjobbery and 7 out of 10 for poor research
    Amusement factor: needs further research

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    Until these people provide some proof, this is fiction. To consider it more than that is wishful thinking. Same with religion and any other escapist super-natural bs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Challie View Post
    This last paragraph in particular is questionable; electromagnetic cellphone radiation is a by-product of the technology used to create such a useful technology. On top of that, the existance of such radiation has been aired on mainstream media extensively.
    They don't understand the science because they don't want to. Science is boring. Like having a flashlight in a dark cave, science lights up all those pesky dark areas so you know what's there. It leaves little to the imagination (in some fields).

    Cell phones work with radio waves in the UHF band. UHF and VHF were once used for television in the US and guess what, there were misconceptions about those too. This level of radiation isn't harmful. There's not enough energy there to do anything. Stuff like uranium and UV radiation has more energy and can mess with cells.

    But microwave ovens operate on the same frequency as Wifi communications. Wifi is part of UHF. Cell phones are part of UHF so that must mean that cell phones and wifi must cook people! I would wager that this is one of the points used to support the conspiracy. And it's true that microwave ovens heat up the water in stuff which makes them cook. It's true that if you get close to a microwave emitting communication tower, you can get burned. But you have to be within an arms reach of the towers to get hurt. Microwave ovens are built to block anything harmful. Cell phones don't put out that much power.


    Anyways, kind of a tangent.

    You will not see anything along the lines of Chemtrails, HAARP orbital weather weaponry, input of Sodium Flouride into water supplies/toothpaste or EMRA frigates (Electro Magnetic Rail Accelerator, US Navy expect to be finished with theirs by 2014) in mainstream media.
    Chemtrails don't exist. Cloud seeding exists. Farmers dusting crops exist. But high-altitude chemical spraying doesn't. For one, it's inefficient. You'd need a lot of chemicals to get good coverage. So much that a chemtrail would become a chemgiantcloudofdoom. Second, you can't really aim a stream of chemicals by dropping them out of an airplane at that height. There's a reason crop dusters don't fly so high. You may try to spray NYC but end up hitting PA or ME. There's weather to take into account which is pretty chaotic and not good for transporting chemicals.

    My point of posting was simply to show you that the rail gun has been in the mainstream media. Rail guns are not secret, they're not scary, there's nothing conspiracy about them. The government hasn't tried to hide it. People have been building them for science fairs and in their basements for a while.

    http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...electromagnet/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OqlTXwLG40

    Fox News, Wikipedia and The Discovery Channel. Doesn't get much more mainstream than that. The thing is, this was easily googleable. Type in "Navy rail gun."

    That was very easy to research. One simple google search shot down "They don't talk about rail guns in the media." See why I have a hard time with conspiracy theorists? It takes more effort to not look it up. That kind of lazy isn't reliable. What else hasn't been googled? Where else is the research lacking?


    ...contribute to the general public's response of disbelief (also often engineered fear/tribal loyalty). But then, those too, are often things we are not supposed to know. And, a lot of UFOs (Unidentified Flying Object, does not necessarily imply extra-terrestrial) are quite often military technology of ours (humans).
    Look, people are tribal. We like being part of groups and categorizing the world. And when we're part of a group we convince ourselves that the group is the best. Nobody wants to be part of a bad group. Example: My group is the people who know about the secrets of the world and the other group is the general public. My group is aware, intelligent, unafraid but the other group are sheep, fearful and easily controlled.

    You are the general public. So am I. It's funny to see this cognitive dissonance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tobbA View Post
    Well, yes. The definition of a psychological disorder is having a personality that deviates (strongly) from the social norm.
    How can you be happy with not questioning that? Is it because your friends will outcaste you if you explore the unknown? Is your own survival less important than social approval? I am not assuming this is the reason.

    Different cultures have different definitions. However happiness and psychological disorders don't generally go hand in hand, unless you're manic depressive.
    You are of course right about the point on cultures. And okay, the 'happy' example was unnecessary in this case, despite its relevance to our society.

    Because at the time the car was invented petrol was cheap and noone really needed it for anything else.
    And why do we still rely on it? Because oil corporations suppress alternative technologies. What really puzzles me is why they do that, to still reap profits from us when they can easily create money themselves anyway. If you want to say that oil corporations are separate from government, then look at how Dick Cheney, president of Halliburton* oil and gas, all of a sudden became the vice-president of the US.

    *When i typed in Halliburton, it read as incorrect. The following spelling suggestions are available:
    Hallucination, Hallucinatory, Hallucinogen, Hallucinate

    Which, i find to be hugely contradictory. This is because authority, in general suppresses mind altering substances. But i don't want to derail too much.

    Because we're designed as pack creatures. We trust our closest and distrust those we do not know. Until a few thousand years ago this was the surest way to survival.
    Yes, and times have obviously changed.

    I think it's good that you're asking these questions. Now you need to start looking for the answers. And stay away from the religious mumbo jumbo.
    My posting of this article has nothing to do with religion. Like i said, this has more to do with history because there is a lot of religion in history. I am not a religious person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atreides View Post
    Maybe I'm a nutjob too, but these guys are trying to explain all human venality by blaming it on demons.
    Please take a look at this. I am definitely an idiotic nutjob. Because i ask questions, questions about where we are, the state we're in. Because i question authority, i am an idiot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyskoa View Post
    Until these people provide some proof, this is fiction. To consider it more than that is wishful thinking. Same with religion and any other escapist super-natural bs.


    It is you who is being an escapist by denying these, i guess scary facts. It absolutely blows my mind that right in the middle of slowly dying, you guys are denying what it going on. The extent of successful brainwash is quite impressive. Sodium Flouride is truly evil shit.

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    Think I'll just leave this here...
    http://skeptoid.com/


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    Quote Originally Posted by s.ketch View Post
    They don't understand the science because they don't want to. It leaves little to the imagination (in some fields).
    This is pretty much what i was trying to communicate in one of my threads a few years ago. Knowledge aids the imagination, but there is a threshold between that and the point where it limits it.

    This level of radiation isn't harmful. There's not enough energy there to do anything.
    Long term exposure to non-ionized radiation has similar effects as short term exposure to ionized radiation. You can spend 20 or so years using cellphones, microwaves, CRT TV/monitors etc, or take a trip to Chernobyl.

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    Ionizing.


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    Quote Originally Posted by s.ketch View Post
    Chemtrails don't exist.
    I don't really want to go into verbal combat, but, what. the. fuck, s.ketch?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-afMDA4iwYA
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Nmz...eature=related

    Second, you can't really aim a stream of chemicals by dropping them out of an airplane at that height. There's a reason crop dusters don't fly so high. You may try to spray NYC but end up hitting PA or ME. There's weather to take into account which is pretty chaotic and not good for transporting chemicals.
    This is the thing, man. We are the population. They do not need to target them anywhere in particular because we, the populace, are everywhere. The following sentence comes from something i have read, which i do not have proof of because where can i find it? The sentence being: there are approximately 6000 people in control of the world, and one of their many priorities are to eliminate 70% of the earth's population by 2030.

    My point of posting was simply to show you that the rail gun has been in the mainstream media.
    Thank you for this. I just added EMRA frigates to the list because it was another weapon, while not being aware that Railguns have been in mainstream media. So, thanks for correcting me on this. The Nazis dreamt of using them for years, but never had enough electricity to fire a single shot. When the US won the second world war, they captured a lot of German scientists.

    See why I have a hard time with conspiracy theorists?
    Yes.

    My group is the people who know about the secrets of the world and the other group is the general public. My group is aware, intelligent, unafraid but the other group are sheep, fearful and easily controlled.
    I understand what you mean. I too am of course the general public, but i am by no means 'unafraid'. I am posting this because i am very scared, and the more of us that accept that this is going on, the better chance we have of getting through it. I apologize for seeming tribal myself by kind of outcasting people who do not agree. It just pisses me off a bit that people would deny solid evidence that this is going on when you too are being affected. We are all being affected by it. Do you want to die, or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Think I'll just leave this here...
    http://skeptoid.com/
    This urges me to explain why i am posting this information here on CA.org rather than on one of the hundreds of conspiracy sites where it's all very well known and i'd be regurgitating information that's already very well known. I am posting this here partially because i care about this community, i like you guys! Also because my previous experience with CA.org taught me there are a lot of people here, who would listen. Perhaps that was just a phase when the thread about the documentary Zeitgeist was going on, or maybe such people have left the lounge to concentrate on their art. Before you tell me to stop doing this and focus on my own, let me tell you that i am very much still drawing, painting, carving and sanding driftwood as well. Just because i don't post here on CA doesn't mean i don't post on places like facebook, and it certainly doesn't mean i don't do it. I can't be bothered with the pure hassle that is the attachment manager, among other things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Challie View Post
    I have not seen Total Recall, but will have to now. What you're describing is an interesting concept, to me.
    You may or may not enjoy it. I don't know how close it is to Dick's original story, and it is basically a fairly graphically violent SF movie, but with some interesting ideas.

    For those of you who disagree with me, i appreciate it if you would think about a few things. Why do we drive vehicles powered by materials taken from deep under the earth, when far more sustainable technology has been available since pretty much day one?
    Because the fossil fuels are cheaper.

    Our resources have always been here. Why do we intentionally cause harm to others? Quite often, it comes from what has been done to us. Most if not all abuse is nothing more than passing it down the chain. Why do we create belief systems in which anyone who is not loyal is outcasted, hunted, murdered? Why do we pick sides, if we are all the same biological creature? Why do we sit in front of a television set and willingly listen to what is said to us, all the while not even thinking to question what it is they are saying?
    A lot of human behaviour can be explained by assuming that we are pretty much like chimps, except rather less rational. All the TV watching is a bit of a mystery, mind you.

    Is it really not a possibility that the official people are lying?
    There is no question that they are lying. Virtually anything and everything you see, read or hear is either an intentional lie or a misunderstanding confidently masquerading as truth. This goes for what both governments and conspiracy theorists are saying.

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    yeah, it's a real shame. anyway i'm sure the world will survive, it better do! enjoy life while we can i suppose.

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    Max, I only watched the first video you posted on chemtrails because I just got off of work, it's 2am here and I have to get up early. But I want you to watch it again and pay very close attention to the photographs of high-altitude airplanes. You'll notice that the amount of trails correspond to the amount of jet engines. They're clouds. Made of tiny ice particles. This is a publicly verifiable fact. Again, it's something that can be learned with less than 10 mins of google. What stands out most about the video is how silly the argument is. Well the terrible music stands out most but thank goodness there's a mute button. But I wish there was a mute button for dumb. It's just a series of pictures of contrails and factories with LOL CHEMTRAILS popping up every so often. At no point does it tell you why they're chemtrails or how the person making the claim knows they're chemtrails. Where as if I wanted to, I could easily explain why they're not chemtrails and post sources. Which I don't want to and I hope you will go look up jet engines, contrails, cloud formation and some basic chemistry.

    It just pisses me off a bit that people would deny solid evidence that this is going on when you too are being affected. We are all being affected by it. Do you want to die, or something?
    But youtube videos and "I read something a while back but can't find it but this is what it says anyways..." aren't solid evidence. You have a poor standards for proof. That's not an insult. The last question is an argument from consequences. And an appeal to fear. No I don't want to die. But not freaking out over every claim made by nut jobs with internet access won't be my downfall. There's many people who make a living off of getting others to listen to them by claiming the world is ending. This is selling the sizzle, not the steak. What they have to say is of little substance so it needs to be dressed up with a bold claim of doom and gloom.

    If you're really concerned then educate yourself and dedicate your mind to solving the world's problems. Like solving our energy problems (You don't seem to understand why we're not all on solar or wind power. Might want to fix that). Or food shortages, or allocation of resources or any number of problems. Alex Jones and the guy in that article you posted don't deserve your mind.

    EDIT: and I meant to make a point about the factories emmiting smog/smoke/water vapor. Yes they pollute the air. This is nothing new or secret. You can bet that the EPA is constantly on their asses too. They pay fines and have to comply with regulations. I don't see how that is support for chemtrails.

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    I'll just leave this here.





    Oh.. Sorry for my need to mock your therioes, I do this because

    .. I secretly am a lizard.

    .. From the planet Draco.

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    And why do we still rely on it?
    Because a lot of people make money from it.

    How can you be happy with not questioning that? Is it because your friends will outcaste you if you explore the unknown? Is your own survival less important than social approval? I am not assuming this is the reason.
    What is there to question? It's pretty obvious that psychological disorders are unhealthy and make people suffer.

    Yes, and times have obviously changed.
    Too bad we didn't.

    My posting of this article has nothing to do with religion. Like i said, this has more to do with history because there is a lot of religion in history. I am not a religious person.
    The text is highly religious in the sense that it makes assumptions based on no real evidence but instead relies on faith and beliefs to explain things.

    The history part of the article is the fact that a bunch of people wrote a bunch of religious texts a long time ago. The religious part of it is believing that these texts tell the truth. It's no different from reading the Bible, really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpacer View Post
    If you're into this kind of stuff you should definitely read some Philip K. Dick.

    He's not the greatest writer in terms of craft, but he certainly had ideas that no one else was having at the time.

    The latter half of his life and work was spent exploring Gnosticism as he tried to figure out what was wrong with him. He was trying to resolve whether or not he was actually receiving messages from a higher power or just schizophrenic. The book VALIS is semi-autobiographical and steeped in Gnosticism. Since Dick was living in modern times he was able to use metaphors from scientific and technological concepts that the ancient Gnostics didn't have in order the more clearly explain what he perceived the situation to be. VALIS is in fact his name for "The One True God." It's an acronym for "Vast Active Living Intelligence System" and in his mind was the clearest description for what he thought "The One True God" is.

    Gnosticism (and Philip K. Dick) have kind of infiltrated pop culture and mainstream consciousness at this point. The most obvious example being The Matrix. Just replace "Archon" with "Agent" and you have the plot for The Matrix (plus Kung Fu of course).
    BLASPHEMY?!

    PK Dick is genuis!

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    s.ketch, that was a solid post for sure. Whether you watch the rest or not, i don't mind. But please watch this one. Some of the 'chemtrails' in this video appear to be contrails, such as that at 7:55


    I have since come to realize that when the active minds that make up our internet community are being stampeded into fear or a fixation on a single subject, it is invariably a well orchestrated campaign to get everyone looking in one direction while the main event is happening elsewhere

    Several things were immediately apparent about the spray planes. First, they weren’t high enough to be making contrails and even if they were, the sprayed liquid was flashing into voluminous white visibility much too fast to have any connection with the process by which moisture in 1000 degree (F) jet exhaust can freeze into visible ice crystals. Second, you could literally watch the crew turn the pumps on and off when they were having fun with their aerial designs and, in the case of planes with older pumping systems that pulsed as they pumped, the sprayed liquid was literally coming out in clumps
    Source: http://uncensored.co.nz/2006/01/06/c...-a-conclusion/

    Mossi, yeah light refractions etc. I understand your need to mock; all this i'm posting surely is a little annoying. But it's better to ponder whether or not they are death dumps than not even wonder, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by tobbA View Post
    Because a lot of people make money from it.
    And just why should they bother, when they can create money at any time they like? Money is unlimited to those who create it, but resources are limited even to them.

    What is there to question? It's pretty obvious that psychological disorders are unhealthy and make people suffer.
    And just what defines a psychological disorder? What is to say that a few, if not many, people locked away in mental wards are there because they have conditions which can be beneficial to human civilization, yet obviously not beneficial to our currently established civilization? Do you accept that 'psychological disorders' are bad because you have been taught so, either through school, media or otherwise? What is to say these disorders cannot be useful in some way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OmenSpirits View Post
    BLASPHEMY?!

    PK Dick is genuis!
    I never said he wasn't. Sorry for any misunderstanding. He's one of my favorite writers. I've had a quote from him in my sig for awhile now. I just said that in terms of the technical craft of writing he's not the best, but his ideas far outweigh any technical deficiencies he had.

    RE: Movies based on his work: You can't really judge PKD's work on the movies as Hollywood usually turns them into action movies. For example, Total Recall is based on a short story called "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale" and it's a VERY loose translation. The actual story is about 20 pages long and I think at most there's one shot fired. Whereas in the capable hands of Paul Verhoeven "Total Recall" is an action packed blood bath. Don't get me wrong I like "Total Recall" too, but it's NOT like the story except in the most general way. I think the only movie yet to actually come close to capturing the spirit of one his actual books is "A Scanner Darkly." There are many other movies, while not written by him, are clearly inspired by him, such as Vanilla Sky, Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind, and Inception. I actually think those movies are much closer to the spirit of PKD than any of the movies based his actual writings.

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    I loved A Scanner Darkly!

    As to conspiracy theories, it's like discussing religion. You enter a very volatile area, reaping with passionate beliefs. Those that believe, and those that don't.
    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

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    Max there are some inaccuracies in that lady's knowledge of contrails. They form at -40 degrees F (same for C), not -70. They can last several hours, not "at most 20 minutes." Note that they live and observe the "chemtrails" in Vancouver. Usually contrails only form when planes are at a cruising altitude (min 8km). But in colder climates, they form much lower because the cold air sits lower.

    Looking into the claim that Espanola sued the Canadian govt over high-levels of aluminum oxide, I can't find anything. Anything that isn't a blog or some site dedicated to conspiracies. Mostly that Will Thomas character and people re-linking his blog. But reading the sites of the people who supposedly participated in action against the Canadian govt, it was said they petitioned parliament. Not sued them. Then one site said it was October 1999. October in Canada is mighty cold and low contrails could easily be mistaken for chemtrails. As for the high levels of Al_20_3, there are apparently lots of factories in Canada that produce it as a product and/or waste. And Canada seems to export Al. This seems a likely source of aluminum oxide.

    The claims that everyone developed nosebleeds is easy since they live in a cold-dry climate.
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/29...n-dry-climate/

    The claim that he collected a sample of residue on a black tarp: poor collection of any evidence. There should have been pictures, video, and it should have been collected into sterile containers and sent somewhere for testing. But a tarp in one's yard is hardly a great way to collect samples of atmosphere. Who's to say a neighbor wasn't fertilizing their lawn? Or that it wasn't diesel exhaust? Or any number of other ground-level contaminates.


    http://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/GLOBE/faq.html

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    My head hurts...

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