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  1. #31
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    Funny though, the setup everyone had seemed to be fine enough. I could see the model perfectly well, it's not like I had to change positions just to see her and the work. Are you saying my community college was 'doing it wrong'? Bear in mind that I was in a class with a lot of old dears- standing up for so long simply isn't an option.

    Even the tutor at my life drawing class in uni was cool with us sitting down. There was a mix of A3-A1 type drawing, so it's not like we were hunching over backs over a tiny A6 pad. (If I recall correctly we were even on the floor with the A1 painting. Though I wouldn't recommend that if you have a bad back..)

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    We sat down in class, however, if I had an instructor that wanted us to to work standing up, not a big deal, it's only one class. I can understand if you have foot problems or back problems (I have flat feet) but man, sometimes I just shake my head.

    It's only one class. It's not like they told you to rape your mother's cat or something.

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  4. #33
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    Yeah, we had some teachers who wanted us to stand, and some who didn't mind. I certainly appreciated the classes where I could sit after I had just been standing behind the counter at Starbucks since 4:30 a.m., but being made to stand at an easel a couple times a week was really valuable as I got to experience the benefits first hand.

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  6. #34
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    You guys have a point. I was afraid that it was considered 'proper' to do it standing all the time (if that was true I worry for a lot of the oldies in my group..), but one class in so many really isn't much to shake a fist at, lol.

    The only thing that seriously annoyed me was using the plumbline. I couldn't get it to keep still for the life of me..

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    I didn't read the whole thread carefully, but nobody seems to have mentioned the benefits of working while standing at a vertical easel:

    • It allows you to step back from your piece more readily than sitting down. Stepping back is critical to assessing your piece objectively while working on it. Generally speaking, the more you step back from your piece and/or squint the better off you will be. Sitting down is conducive to leaving your nose buried a few inches from your piece and then remembering at the end of class that you should have stepped back.
    • On a similar note, working standing is more conducive to moving around the subject to learn more about it, which is a great advantage to working from life in the first place.
    • If your working surface is not exactly perpendicular to your direction of view, you will introduce perspective distortions into your piece. If the top of your working surface is tipped slightly away from you, everything at the top of the page will look too large when viewed from a proper angle.
    • Sitting is terrible for your body, and if you are serious about art you will be doing hours and hours of it and the fewer spent sitting, the better.


    I'm sure there's more, but this is a quick list.

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  9. #36
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    After reading your comments, hum? Thanks, Oh the biggest one what what did I expect out of a drawing class? More like the teacher coming behind us and suggesting we focus on this or that. I mean I'm paying some one to instruct me. If I just wanted to sit and draw I would hang out here more. You know," You could be here, so draw!"

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  10. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hu Surdadi View Post
    More like the teacher coming behind us and suggesting we focus on this or that. I mean I'm paying some one to instruct me.
    Well, not all classes and teachers work in the same way, or even the same way through the semester. Also for the teacher to come behind you and tell you what to fix and pay more attention to, you generally need to have something on the paper first.

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  11. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hu Surdadi View Post
    After reading your comments, hum? Thanks, Oh the biggest one what what did I expect out of a drawing class? More like the teacher coming behind us and suggesting we focus on this or that. I mean I'm paying some one to instruct me. If I just wanted to sit and draw I would hang out here more. You know," You could be here, so draw!"
    If you're not getting enough instruction then take it up with the teacher, that is, once you've done some work.

    Also bear in mind that the model in front of you is trained and there for your work. They're going to be a much more valuable resource than any bunch of photographs (they're not distorted, for one thing), they can give you what simply drawing at home can't. (I'd know- I'm useless at being a life model for my boyfriend, I twitch all the damn time. So I suggested that he join me drawing in class next time I signed up for more life drawing) That alone is worth paying for.

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  12. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hu Surdadi View Post
    After reading your comments, hum? Thanks, Oh the biggest one what what did I expect out of a drawing class? More like the teacher coming behind us and suggesting we focus on this or that. I mean I'm paying some one to instruct me. If I just wanted to sit and draw I would hang out here more. You know," You could be here, so draw!"
    Yes, you are paying them. However, they're not paid to read your mind, so you need to engage them. Ask your teacher questions.

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    if this is your first college art class, give it time. The first drawing class I took in art school we did the same thing. They just had us set up and do a still life, while not instructing at all. But that was to see what you are capable of! On our last day of class, they set up the same still life and had us draw it again, and while discussing our final grades they showed us the both of them and talked about how much we improved.
    You're getting ahead of yourself and making judgements too quickly. Trust your teacher and do the work.

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    thread tags,

    arshes nei rapes cats, elwell got shooshpapped



    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmenSpirits View Post
    thread tags,

    arshes nei rapes cats, elwell got shooshpapped

    Yeah but we have the ability to see who added them

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    We should not have to be explaining sight-size. Your teacher should have done that and it sounds like a crappy teacher and a crappy drawing school. There is a proper way to introduce a student to measuring and sight size and putting them in front of an easel with a complicated still life composition is not it.

    When I started in sight size methodology I was not comfortable with the new way either, but my teacher put me at ease by setting up my expectations properly and monitoring my progress throughout the session, listening to my concerns and explaining why we did things this way (that is, the French Academic way) If your teacher is not doing this it is right to feel uncomfortable. I would take what you can get out of the class and then leave as you can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naomi Ningishzidda View Post
    We should not have to be explaining sight-size. Your teacher should have done that and it sounds like a crappy teacher and a crappy drawing school. There is a proper way to introduce a student to measuring and sight size and putting them in front of an easel with a complicated still life composition is not it.
    Maybe they haven't gotten that far yet.
    In my first drawing class, the teacher had us do "pre instructional" drawing, to see where everyone is at before starting the class, and so we have something at the end of the semester to compare to, to see how much we improved.

    For most colleges we're in the first week of class at the moment.

    The OP hasn't given us the purpose of their current assignment, so it's hard to judge if the teacher is doing it right, without knowing why they're doing what they're doing.

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    Contour drawing was on the block today. Is Contour and rendering the same idea? And do you feel a blind contour will assist in greater hand eye coordination?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hu Surdadi View Post
    And do you feel a blind contour will assist in greater hand eye coordination?
    Not really, but it sure is a good way to get the student to look at the thing they're drawing more than the paper they're drawing it on. And that's pretty important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hu Surdadi View Post
    Contour drawing was on the block today. Is Contour and rendering the same idea? And do you feel a blind contour will assist in greater hand eye coordination?
    Hon, these are questions you should be asking your instructor. Don't be shy, guaranteed there is at least one other student in the class wondering exactly what you're wondering, and would be happy you spoke up.

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  25. #48
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    Well, I have heard many times rendering on this forum but never contour. And you guys are professionals and I would like to hear from more than one source. Plus I have been using a person as a guide on this forum before I had a teacher and now I don't know who to follow. I mean, I haven't even seen my instructors work. And one more thing... Can you get a Ph.D in art instructions?

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    Dogma and art don't always mix. Don't follow just one person, follow whoever/whatever can teach you things you might find useful. Contradictions between sources are valuable - you get to ask "why", "for what purpose" and "in what cases".

    Contour drawing is primarily good for observation, then also line weight, rhythm and sensitivity in lines, simplifying and controlling detail vs. lack of detail in a composition. Blind contour is good for training hand-eye coordination and observation, but it's hardly useful outside its application as an exercise.

    Also, try the search feature. There were a few threads about contour.

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    I agree on not following one teacher. In fact, having more than one teacher is a big advantage. Different artists have different techniques and some will work better for you than others. If they give you differing advice, try out both methods and see which works for you.

    When I was 19 I went to a college to do an art foundation year which had lots of life and still life drawing - useful to a point - but little to no instructional component. Essentially, the tutors would give us an assignment then go and read a newspaper and have a coffee, then come back at the end to point out things we did well or not well. I left the college with a portfolio of observational drawing but without a clue that things like anatomy study, colour theory, composition and so on existed. I gave up on art for years after that experience, only later discovering what I SHOULD have been taught and what I could do with it.

    So "trust your teacher" is not necessarily good advice, because there are bad teachers and bad courses out there. You know your teacher's name, yes? Google them and look for some of their work. If there is no sign of them or any of their art that would be a big red flag in my opinion. Someone who is teaching art should also be an active artist, or at the very least have been so previously. Practice what you preach and so on. The GOOD art teachers I had later showed the students their websites with their work.

    I don't like standing to draw either and I think that is OK. Remembering to stand up and step back to check your work now and then isn't so difficult (and you shouldn't be sitting for long periods without standing up to stretch your legs anyway). Sitting and hunching IS bad, but you can use a table easel or drawing board to eliminate the hunching aspect. I have a kneeling chair which is amazing for sitting posture and much better for your back than a regular chair. I really recommend them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hu Surdadi View Post
    Well, I have heard many times rendering on this forum but never contour. And you guys are professionals and I would like to hear from more than one source. Plus I have been using a person as a guide on this forum before I had a teacher and now I don't know who to follow. I mean, I haven't even seen my instructors work. And one more thing... Can you get a Ph.D in art instructions?
    Large part of learning to draw is learning how to look and *really* see things. Blind contour and contour drawing are exercises meant to teach you how to slow down and really focus on seeing things. The teacher is showing you how to walk, before you can run. As you get better, some of these things will become more subconscious and refined, to a point that unless you're trying to teach someone from scratch, you may not even realize any more you;re doing it.

    Rendering is something different...

    Being really good at teaching drawing,m and being really good at drawing aren't the same thing. It does not sound like the teacher is leading you astray. Sounds more like you are being put through a normal beginning drawing class. Stop fighting the process, and listen to the teacher, learn as much as you can..... from each teacher you have.

    After you gain a lot of different experiences and ways of doing things, and develop as an independent artist more, you'll be glad you have a number of tools in your arsenal that you can use to create whatever you want.

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    So, now it is focused on negitive shapes. Wow, all I can say, no matter what, I will always love you.

    on a side note, started an art club on campus. Now, you can call me President. I'm kind of a big deal. Okay, not yet, but, it will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hu Surdadi View Post
    Contour drawing was on the block today. Is Contour and rendering the same idea? And do you feel a blind contour will assist in greater hand eye coordination?
    Shape (contour), is very important. Blind contour is a gimmick IMO. Learning to draw a correct shape is valid but not looking at what your doing is not helpful. You learn by comparison and correction.

    I also disagrree about studying with more than one teacher at the same time especially if they don't teach the same sort of thing. With teachers it is best to practice serial monogamy. Find a good one, stay with them until you learn everything they have to offer then replace them with a better one and repeat the process. Jumping around and learning conflicting styles and genres won't help you as much as a slow and consistent approach.

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    My least favourite exercise in all the world is drawing without lifting your pen/pencil from the paper. The results are always abysmal, but, it doesn't half make you think about what you're doing...

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