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  1. #1
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    Hit me, beat me, kill me - criticize me!!

    Hello fellow concept artists and whatnot!
    Been working on this piece of art as an assignment, which is kind of a paraphrase for "Alexander the Great" by Rembrandt. Anyway, let me know what you guys think!
    Thanks

    Hit me, beat me, kill me - criticize me!!

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    Last edited by InsanityVonMike; May 13th, 2012 at 06:35 AM.
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  3. #2
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    I could really need your feedback *-)

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    It looks really good
    I am not one of the pros, but I see the anatomy on the swordarm might be too short from the elbow to the shoulder.

    Whats the medium for this?

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    Yeah, I had to make kind of a foreshortening on the elbow for it to fit

    I used regular graphite, that's all

    Last edited by InsanityVonMike; November 29th, 2011 at 07:50 AM.
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    Drew Saruman from reference. This is also done with graphite

    Hit me, beat me, kill me - criticize me!!

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    I like them both, but the saruman really stands out.
    Jeff

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    You'll get more feedback in the Critique section.

    As a general observation, your facial features are too large for their faces. But on the Saruman drawing, that actually works.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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    the details are very nice, looks like a lot of patience went into the drawings.

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    @Jeff Thanks!

    @Stoat Alright, I'll take a look there Yeah, I tend to either characterize faces or simply draw the eyes etc double their real size... but I'm working on it Thanks

    @wunts I don't know how much time I spent on the first time but since it was all drawn from my head without any reference, it took me quite some time... took me maybe 3 months to finish it, not sure how many hours were put into it tho
    Saruman took somewhere between 10-12h

    I'll get back to you all with an update on Saruman in the beginning of next week. The day before yesterday I fixed his eyes and mouth a little because I wasn't satisfied with his expression. Looked way too kind in my opinion But it's in school so you'll have to wait :o

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    moved


    Tristan Elwell
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  12. #11
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    Wow, I'm slow sometimes... anyway, framed both of them and fixed Saruman's facial expression
    Hit me, beat me, kill me - criticize me!!
    Hit me, beat me, kill me - criticize me!!

    And something little I did during class
    Hit me, beat me, kill me - criticize me!!

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    nice perspective, dont feel bad about being "moved" this is the highest quality judged work on the internet, so just take it as a compliment.

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    The alexander drawing would look better if you had any highlights and dark shadows, rather than everything having middle tones. by drawing on darker paper and using a chalk, or coloring everything darker with a few highlights erased. Be careful not to oversimplify the highlight in eyes, the one of Alexander is very basic, plus the reflected light crashes with the pupil. Google "eyes" and look at the different ways light and reflection affects eyes.
    The light in Alexanders portrait is a bit weird. He looks like he is lit from front, which is the most boring setting, yet the light comes from behind. Maybe he should rater be lit more like this? http://cdn.dailypainters.com/paintin...a5626c131c.jpg

    Looks more interesting and dramatic.

    I agree with the arm looking very short. More like a Hobbit

    I think you need to practice more on hair, proportions, especially light directions, and use a better reference face, maybe one with less duck-face photo Also the eyes are way too high up, they should be about the centre of the face, with the helmet much higher.


    Other than that, vey nice and simple compositions, good work with tones, obviously great drawing skills. The wizard drawing looks more professional, but would look much better with higher level of detail and more local contrasts. Great start. The last one is very interesting composition and motif wise. A bit dangerously symmetrical maybe. the far left detail is way too contrasty, it draws the eye off the main selling point. Overall, the image would look much better with more contrast, much more shadows, much darker. Remember to keep important, central areas high contrast and the rest low contrast. Also, you should make the front character either much lighter or usually darker than the background, which should become progressively brighter. Maybe ill photoshop to show what I mean.

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    The face on the first drawing really bothered me (despite being obviously a nice job )
    I hope this here can help you as it is helping me:
    http://www.alexhays.com/loomis/Loomi...ure%20Draw.pdf
    Page 172 till 181
    I also got some other nice practices I could give you later.

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    @wunts Thanks for the encouragement! Moving the thread doesn't bother me though, as long as people are helping me progress

    @Thundermane Yeah, you're absolutely right, human heads are driving me nuts! Much easier to do fantasy freaks since there's barely no rules that you need to take in consideration
    And thanks for the link, I'll take a look

    Today's doodle below. I believe the creepy lookin' lizard/dragon-dude turned out pretty good (correct me if I'm wrong)... having a really hard time with the environments and background settings though - which is pretty obvious in this one, although I'm pleased with the concept.

    Hit me, beat me, kill me - criticize me!!

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    Uggh, I feel so inproductive it even hurts... I'll try to be better - I need to be better! Art school in 5 months if I'm lucky... if I don't manage I will have no other choice than to hit myself with a hammer.

    Self-portrait, kindof... doesn't look like me the slightest but at least it's something.
    Hit me, beat me, kill me - criticize me!!

    Some sketches out of my head, made this morning... I need to work on expressions, they don't look very much alive.
    Hit me, beat me, kill me - criticize me!!
    Hit me, beat me, kill me - criticize me!!
    Hit me, beat me, kill me - criticize me!!

    Just something quick with photo reference.
    Hit me, beat me, kill me - criticize me!!

    Blablabla, CRITICIZE!!

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    Your renderings are really good, You have a really good understanding on values.

    the basic facial structure and anatomy could use some improvements. It looks like you do better with photo references. In that case, do more quick sketch practices with photos. Life drawings would definitely help you more, but can be overwhelming in the beginning.

    A suggestion: use a graphite or charcoal or pastel stick, draw your self portraits without using lines. Just use the sticks to quickly shade each generic surface that you see. (it might be easier to do this kind of excercise with simpler structures first, i.e. a table)

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  20. #18
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    You're drawing essentially the same face over and over, even when you're using reference. Stop doing what you've always done, what you think you know, and really look.


    Tristan Elwell
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  22. #19
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    Check this out, I always remember it when I snap out of my state of senseless gesturing. The part where he says "A guy, a three-dimensional man" has been etched in my mind ever since I read this. I think it provides the solution to your problem.

    http://www.anticz.com/drawing1.htm

    "Don't judge a book by it's cover" Frank Frazetta 1928-2010
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    @look You mean that I should try more to integrate the anatomical aspect when I draw in real life and not just when I draw by fantasy, or did I lose you completely? I'll definitely try that next time if that's what you meant!
    Alright, I'll do some portraits with charcoal as well - it sounds like fun

    @Elwell Yeah, I think I know what you mean. It's probably because I use myself as reference since I'm always available. Would you suggest that I expand my variation by looking at the features of different people or are you on a completely different track?

    @Line And what exactly is it that bothers you about my drawings? That they look too flat? Because I try quite hard to make sure that they have a certain value Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

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    Here's something to try if you've some time to burn. (It's also something I've been meaning to do but haven't due to the lack of time.) Go to a public place...mall, library, park, etc.) and sketch from life. Maybe a food court...people would be so busy eating that they wouldn't be irked by someone surreptitiously sketching them. Keep it to a time limit. 5-10 minute gestures, focusing on the features that make one person stand out over another. Perhaps its the way their standing, thinking, conversing, physically gesturing...
    Then start and post your work in a sketchbook thread on this site. If you go out and do this enough, over time, you'll see an improvement with your figural sketches.

    On top of that, consider purchasing/downloading Andrew Loomis' book "Drawing the Figure for all its worth", and work on the exercises he's made up.

    That should help you out with your faces and renderings.
    As an after thought, I would stay away from drawing from photos; you only really gain something from that when you know how the planes of the face work backwards and forwards. Maybe invest in an inexpensive head bust?

    Just some thoughts.

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  26. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsanityVonMike View Post
    @look You mean that I should try more to integrate the anatomical aspect when I draw in real life and not just when I draw by fantasy, or did I lose you completely? I'll definitely try that next time if that's what you meant!
    Alright, I'll do some portraits with charcoal as well - it sounds like fun
    integrate more anatomical aspects. It may be hard, but try always use life or photo reference when you can. If needed, don't be afraid to put your own face and body in every fantasy character you draw. (unless you are drawing the opposite sex)

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  27. #23
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    Ok, the problems I see are proportion and tone.

    Take the Saruman one for instance. You have the shapes down pretty well, that's why we can tell it's supposed to be Christopher Lee, yet they are slightly deformed, that a drawing issue, we all struggle with that even painters like Richard Schmidt, so don't worry but don't let go. On the other hand, your proportions of the general masses of the face for instance, aren't all that accurate, both in the 2D picture plane and in 3d space. Again this is a drawing matter. That's why I posted the link to Ron Lemen's tutorial.

    You see, the head is broken down into masses. Let's say a forehead that's squarish is simplified to a box. Unless you learn how to draw that box correctly in perspective, on your paper, and lay down the basic separation of light and shade of this box so that we feel it's volume and weight, it won't work well when you break it down to smaller forms and shapes and "smoothen" it to get the forehead. As I said, these are drawing issues, we all have them, keep at it.

    Next, you need to increase your tonal range if you are to intensify the contrast between the planes of the face, convince the viewer that your forms are rounded smoothly, sharply or abruptly.

    This all comes down to what Elwell said. Really look. Don't just say "ah, shade over there, light over here" and scribble it in thinking only in terms of eye, cheek, nostril. Look at the eye and notice the shape of the shadow, it's size, placement and tone. Lay it down, then look at the shape next to it, it may be lighter. How much lighter is it? Draw the shape, and lay down the tone in proportion to the difference it has with the previous shape. You can draw an 'eye' with light lines to give you the general placement and proportion, but when you model it, it's shadowed areas and lit areas, look at the shapes.

    But first, read the tutorial and practice drawing simplified heads, then more complex ones. By simplified I mean something like this http://www.artgraphica.net/images/ge...ead-planes.jpg think in tems of "side of head, front of head" etc. Then go for a head where you think "Side plane of cranium, temple plane, side plane of jaw, front plane of forehead, front plane of nose, side plane of nose, front plane of cheekbone, side plane of cheekbone" etc.

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  29. #24
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    @jacobanderson Yeah, I've also been thinking about that - or more precisely, my art teacher did it for me although she talked about environments, not people ^^ Only problem is that I live in a rather small city and there are no food courts or anything similar really - there isn't even a gallery. Sounds like a great idea but I have to find some place to go... maybe a cafe.
    Also, I downloaded the Loomis book. Might as well do some reading later
    Now about the head bust, I really have no idea where to find one. I have one of those greek head sculptures made out of plaster, if you know what I'm talking about, but it has no backhead and is very smoothed. I would much rather have something like this: http://www.digitalartform.com/assets...head-Asaro.jpg Don't you agree?

    @look Alright, I'll take that in mind. Thanks

    @Line I think I understand what you're saying. Would you then also suggest that I take it to the very basics and do cubes, spheres, cones etc or would that be taking it to the extreme?
    I did a rough sketch now, it's probably not as simplified as you would want me to make it, but don't worry - I'll be making tons of these later
    Also, there are some issues on the proportions (pretty much the same width on the left and right side of the face, which may look a little ridiculous as it's in perspective. I'll also work more on the contrasts and tones so you'll be able to see the different planes more clearly.

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    Looking through, I think the fundamental issue you have is that you're drawing what you think a face looks like rather than what it actually looks like; the individual elements all look pretty much right, given your style, but they're not proportioned relative to one another. Some general issues I'm seeing are: your noses are too front-facing despite the 3/4 angle of the head; your heads are also too far compressed horizontally; and your features are all smushed into too small a box on the head, so they're strangely too big for each other proportionally, but too small for the head. A particular issue I have with your first piece is that foreshortened arm... I can see it once you told me that's what was going on, but the forearm should still be overlapping the upper arm more to sell the effect.

    Okay, that's the not-so-good. The good news is I think you're really good with your graphite. You've got buttery shadows on the skin and armor, but I like how you changed it up with the hard hatching on the sword to emphasize its solidity. Nice sculpting with shadows, in general and good tonal range--your style has a very Maurice Sendak circa "Outside Over There" look to me.

    Good luck at art school and keep posting!

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  31. #26
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    Simplify it more, keep the light consistent because in your sketch it's not consistent and there are areas that still look the same, even tho you've subdivided them. Think of using 5 tones from light to dark.

    And yes, do cubes, spheres, cylinders and cones. We all do, it's not extreme. It wasn't extreme to learn the alphabet, neither is this.

    And Elwell said it, look, look, look. Download the Loomis books too. Figure drawing for what it's worth is what I started with.

    "Don't judge a book by it's cover" Frank Frazetta 1928-2010
    RIP Frank.

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  32. #27
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    Used photo reference this time (whooops!) and I must say, it's harder to simplify the face than I originally thought. At least it's a better attempt than my last one, and I used 5 tones like you said (6 with the background colour).

    Hit me, beat me, kill me - criticize me!!

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    Post the reference.


    Tristan Elwell
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  34. #29
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    I should have figured^^ Here you go

    Hit me, beat me, kill me - criticize me!!

    Last edited by InsanityVonMike; February 18th, 2012 at 01:47 PM.
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    This is basically my first painting with acryllic. I've done some fooling around before but nothing serious.

    And sorry about the bad photo

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