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Thread: Cintiq 24HD?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangum View Post
    is it really a 10 dead pixels policy?
    "Stuck" pixels, which are exactly as annoying. They have zero tolerance for dead ones...very rare. Each pixel has r,g,b, & white subpixels. When one fails, the pixel is considered stuck. All 3 colors have to fail for it to be considered dead.

    When researching after I discovered a stuck one on a new 21, I did however read a forum where a guy had 7 stuck (!), and they took care of him.


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  3. #62
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    I wonder about the quality of the IPS. A decent IPS like dell u2711 goes for 600euro. But a Good IPS like Eizo or NEC goes for 1.5-2k. Im guessing the cintiq offers a low-quality IPS... right ? Or am i just making dumb assumptions here.

    Plus with a screen protector the screen would become a tad more muddy i believe. And you wouldnt want scratches

    Im thinking a setup of a 27" 2560x1440rez high quality eizo screen with an intuos4. Plus an upgraded 12wx would be nice, for some sketching.

    I didnt like the 12wx the one week i had it. It made jiggly lines when going slow over the screen. Not just jitter in the corners. But i have heard other people without that problem. But an upgraded one withouth those problems would be interesting.

    I am kinda talking myself out of buying the cintiq, cause i made the stupid mistake of buying a intuos4 last week cause i thought the cintiq wouldnt be out for 6-12months.
    But hopefully i made some valid points anyway...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigmadog View Post
    I'm generally very satisfied with my Intuos3 6x11 tablet, but the attraction of a Cintiq is hard to deny. I don't think it will make me a better artist, but I would expect it to make me a faster artist, and since time is money, well, you can do the math.

    As nice as the new 24HD sounds, I'm finding it hard to justify it for myself. The main issue for me seems to be the weight. I would expect to be able to rest it in my lap while painting, but at nearly 64 pounds, I cannot imagine such a position being in any way comfortable for any length of time.

    So I am left with the 21 inch and/or the 12 inch. Since I already have a double-monitor system, the 21 inch may be too much for my desktop (space-wise). So my question:

    Is the 12 inch Cintiq a professional level tool? In other words, will I be happy with the small space it occupies on my desk and disappointed with everything else? Is it a worthy replacement (read: a true upgrade) for my Intuos3 6 x 11?

    Or should I consider nothing less than the 21-inch for professional illustration work?

    Thanks for all your opinions in advance.

    Much like the 21ux, I'm pretty sure Wacom never envisioned the 24HD to be used on someones lap. Lap-ability was their main selling point of the 12 inch one. If anything the 24HD is more intend to be used in a similar set up as a drafting/drawing table.

    And professional illustration work can be done on anything. Whatever tool gets the job done is the only requirement. be it a Cintiq, Intuos, Bamboo, Tablet PC, N-trig, Ipad, or an actual paint brush, etc. Some things are better suited for a specific task but don't ever think that you need a $2000 piece of equipment for a professional illustration. I know a few professional comic book artists that manage just fine with Tablet PC level digitizers or Older Wacom lines like the Graphire series.

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  6. #64
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    I know Feng Zhu uses all regular intuos tablets in his school. he does not use cintiqs. your taught to use a tablet. He could have easily bought all cintiqs for his school but he choose to teach his students with tablets. I think that says something. Ive seen amazing work from Feng in all media. so I agree it doesnt mean you need a cintiq for good work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangum View Post
    I know Feng Zhu uses all regular intuos tablets in his school. he does not use cintiqs. your taught to use a tablet. He could have easily bought all cintiqs for his school but he choose to teach his students with tablets. I think that says something. Ive seen amazing work from Feng in all media. so I agree it doesnt mean you need a cintiq for good work.
    I agree with you, its your brain that does most of the work.
    Was it Frank Frazetta who after his stroke painted with his left hand? To prove it was all about his brain...

    Anyway, feng zhu does environments, cities, mechs. Stuff like that.
    You might want a bigger screen and be able to see the whole picture, when doing that kind of work.
    But i believe both Feerik and Kekai uses cintiqs, and their work are more dynamic figure oriented.
    Im not saying you have to buy a cintiq now, but just to give people another view as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tobzArt View Post
    I agree with you, its your brain that does most of the work.
    Was it Frank Frazetta who after his stroke painted with his left hand? To prove it was all about his brain...

    Anyway, feng zhu does environments, cities, mechs. Stuff like that.
    You might want a bigger screen and be able to see the whole picture, when doing that kind of work.
    But i believe both Feerik and Kekai uses cintiqs, and their work are more dynamic figure oriented.
    Im not saying you have to buy a cintiq now, but just to give people another view as well.
    well i didnt mean to indicate that Feng doesnt use a cintiq at all. Only that ive seen pictures of his classes and they all are using tablets. i know he has at least one cintiq at his school for presentations on a projector. Im sure he uses whatever is available to him. There are people here who have taken his classes, so they would be better suited to comment on his teaching methods then me. ive only seen pictures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grantrl76 View Post
    First of all I have owned 2 cintiq 21ux. Second when they can't make enough to meet demand they ARE having trouble selling them. Every person who wants one who cant get one is lost money. Economies of scale my know-it-all brother. You manufacture them on a large scale and drop your price and sell 500 times as many cintiqs. They are WAY overpriced and they have lousy LCDs. Wacom fix it.
    ...aaaaaaand they're out of stock lol

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    already...damn.

    Kind glad though....at least I won't be as tempted to get one now that they'll be harder to get.

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    I saw one of the new 24HD cintiqs on ebay yesterday. So scalpers are already trying to buy for profit.

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    I've been hearing about Wacom needing competition for many years now, I don't think that day will arrive in our lifetimes. Anyway, not being able to rotate may be an issue to some people. It actually looks like a portable drawing-board, maybe that was intentional.

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    I picked up a 24HD today from Audio Images here in San Francisco. They aren't marking up the prices at all--just charging the $50 shipping it took to get it from Wacom.

    I told 'em I didn't have transportation to the store (the entire box is something like 70+lbs!), so they're delivering it to my front door today for free. Amazing.

    If you're in the market for one, they have 25 in stock as of 0900 today--well, 24 now with mine gone, anyhow.

    Also, they re-sell Cintiqs, so I'll likely sell them my 21UX when they arrive to deliver the 24HD and save myself the headache of posting everywhere to sell my current Cintiq.

    A++ for these guys. It's nice to see helpful, good service, so I'll officially advertise for 'em every so often to repay the favor. ;-)
    I push pixels for a living, and I love it.

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    The Wacom Cintiq 24HD is instock and available for shipping at Audio Images in San Francisco, California! I flew to Portland, OR last Wednesday and drove a truck back on Thursday so that our customers could have them FIRST! We still have units available for sale, but they are going fast. Please call us at 415-957-9131 if you want one. The price is $2500 and is not negotiable, so please don't ask. Shipping via UPS ground to the West Coast and the Midwest is $150 and to the East Coast is $200. We will have our demo unit up and available to try this weekend.

    I have enjoyed reading the discussions about the price points of the Wacom Cintiq. It is not a technology for everyone. The engineering of the Cintiq is amazing and no one comes close to the experience of using a Cintiq. I have been selling the Wacom Cintiq product for 10 years now when it started as a product called the PL100. Please like "Audio Images" on Facebook and you can keep up with all of the latest Wacom news from Audio Images!

    Jim Chen
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  16. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Lang View Post
    I picked up a 24HD today from Audio Images here in San Francisco. They aren't marking up the prices at all--just charging the $50 shipping it took to get it from Wacom.

    I told 'em I didn't have transportation to the store (the entire box is something like 70+lbs!), so they're delivering it to my front door today for free. Amazing.

    If you're in the market for one, they have 25 in stock as of 0900 today--well, 24 now with mine gone, anyhow.

    Also, they re-sell Cintiqs, so I'll likely sell them my 21UX when they arrive to deliver the 24HD and save myself the headache of posting everywhere to sell my current Cintiq.

    A++ for these guys. It's nice to see helpful, good service, so I'll officially advertise for 'em every so often to repay the favor. ;-)
    Congratulations !

    Can you give us some comparisons with the 21ux before you sell it? =)

    Im also interested if the screen got AG-coating. Or is it glossy maybe?
    I cant stand mine on 2209wa. White text on black background sparkles.
    Guess i got sensitive eyes.

    Is it a scratch resistant glass screen?

  17. #74
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    Mine arrived this afternoon. Unfortunately it has this bizarre problem where the display flashes off and on again for about a second at random intervals. I've contacted Wacom about it and apparantly I'm the first person to have contacted them about a faulty 24HD. I feel so very special.

    I have to say, though, the device itself is utterly beautiful. Also enormous.

    It does have an anti-glare coating. It suffers a little bit from the familiar anti-glare sparkly texture, but it's nowhere near as bad as some monitors I've seen and definitely something I can ignore while working on it.
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    Yey! Congrats!

    Please be so kind and write us a full review thread! with pics&honey!

  19. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goliath View Post
    Yey! Congrats!

    Please be so kind and write us a full review thread! with pics&honey!
    I'll be glad to, but I'll wait until I get an exchange for a 24HD that doesn't have this "blinking" issue. I'd hate to give a review of a panel that isn't working right.

    With luck, I'll hear back from wacom on monday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHudston View Post
    I'll be glad to, but I'll wait until I get an exchange for a 24HD that doesn't have this "blinking" issue. I'd hate to give a review of a panel that isn't working right.

    With luck, I'll hear back from wacom on monday.
    sounds like a strange issue. almost like a bad cable or connection so your loosing video. its too bad you didnt have another cable to try. I know the original cable is routed right through the stand itself. there is still access to the connection though on the back i think right? another cable may be worth a shot before sending back the monstrosity.

  21. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangum View Post
    sounds like a strange issue. almost like a bad cable or connection so your loosing video. its too bad you didnt have another cable to try. I know the original cable is routed right through the stand itself. there is still access to the connection though on the back i think right? another cable may be worth a shot before sending back the monstrosity.
    It is strange. Unfortunately I don't have a spare cable to try, though I'm not sure a faulty cable would explain this problem.

    It's also worth pointing out that, bizarrely, the blinking has gotten less frequent the longer that I have used the screen. When I first connected it was happening a few times a minute or more, now it's blinking only once every few hours (though it blinks more frequently when switched on after having been off for an extended period of time).

    A part of me hopes that it'll go away entirely and I wont have to go through with the hassle of exchanging the display but, for £2000, it needs to be perfect.
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    Can someone with a 24HD also report whether or not it has the potential to be dismantled from the base and attached to a Ergotron Arm so it can be rotated?

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    @GHudston , Fred Lang

    come one, just feed us some spare infos!

    like how do you experience the resolution of the display? i've heard the critique that you can see the pixelgrid.

    Is it really that bad or is it not noticeable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by toad1971 View Post
    Can someone with a 24HD also report whether or not it has the potential to be dismantled from the base and attached to a Ergotron Arm so it can be rotated?
    Yup, that's absolutely possible. It's big, heavy thing though so you'll want to make sure you've got an adequate arm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goliath View Post
    @GHudston , Fred Lang

    come one, just feed us some spare infos!

    like how do you experience the resolution of the display? i've heard the critique that you can see the pixelgrid.

    Is it really that bad or is it not noticeable?
    The pixel grid is the same as any other 24 inch monitor with the same resolution. It's virtually identical to the 21" Cintiq and is barely noticeable in my opinion. You're bound to notice it slightly as you'll be closer to this display than you will ever get to a standard monitor, but even so you have to be really close for it to become a problem.

    Is there anything else you wanted to know? I haven't used the 24HD heavily due to the blinking issue, but I should be able to answer most questions.
    Last edited by GHudston; September 25th, 2011 at 03:56 PM.
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    Okay, some hands-on thoughts on the new Cintiq 24HD!

    First off, here's my studio set up, which might help you visualize my working conditions a bit:

    Cintiq 24HD?

    The 24HD's ability to lean over the edge of my drafting table has been the most unexpected surprise in my experience with it. It's by far the most comfortable drawing experience I've ever had. It sits just where my body needs it, allowing me to really enjoy sitting and illustrating for much, much longer than I could with the Intuos or the Cintiq 21UX. You see, I'm a "leaner" when I draw. I don't sit back like they show in the Wacom publicity stills--I really get up there on the board and hover over it. This is probably due to the fact that I spent most of my youth drawing in classes where I was supposed to be doing something else, thus making the "hunch over" my natural position on the board. The 24HD really alleviates the pain of the "hunch" by providing me with a much better platform on which to draw, which allows me to feel natural while not looking like Gollum while at the board.

    I love the weight of the new tablet. Feels really solid and great. Knowing that the support arms are attached to the edges and not the center of the back of the unit helps me somehow when leaning on the board (see above). It's just an altogether more stable system. Very nice.

    The screen is just gorgeous. It's not the same resolution as my monitor, but it seems to have less "gleam" per pixel than the 21 did. This has a number of benefits, especially when zooming in. The combination of the screen anti-glare and the new dimensions really help to eliminate one of my peeves about the 21--the feeling that the display just wasn't high definition enough. Much better now.

    I thought that I'd miss rotation a LOT, but with the new screen and a pretty good rotation tool, I'm happy with the change. I still miss the rotation, but I bet that after a while I won't think of it as often. I'm guessing that the sheer size of the 24 eliminated the rotation feature--honestly, if I flipped it around, it'd knock four things off of my desk. So I get it.

    There's an on-screen keyboard native to the tablet! Very handy. I just keep it docked to the top of my Photoshop screen with the other menus in my UI, making it easy to type new layer names, etc. I'm sure I'm not yet getting 100% out of the on-screen keyboard yet, so I'm gonna hunt around and see if anyone online is doing something smarter with it. Unfortunately, since it's cursor-activated, you can't "CMD+[insert keystroke]" anything...I think. One click per key, it seems. Maybe someone else has figured this out. Regardless, nice to not have to go to the keyboard to type in new layer names. It's like having my iPhone right on the screen.

    The size of the 24 has removed a lot of the side area on my drafting board that I used to angle my keyboard for easy reach. I've hidden a Mac keyboard under the 24 (there's space for it as well as two little plastic legs that snap out to keep the board hovering above they keyboard, allowing you to "reach under the hood" to type while looking at the screen), but I find myself lifting the screen to get to the keys, which can be annoying. I'll have to figure out a way to make space or create a keyboard-specific area on my board that I can get to more easily. I might cut out a keyboard landing area and attach it to my board...not sure yet. Again...the 24 is GIANT and will eat up desk space.

    The counter-weighted arms for positioning are well-made and seem very sturdy. Thing is, I'm not an easel painter, so most of this functionality is lost on me. Also, there's no "lock" to keep the screen in position anywhere except in the fully "up" position (for easel painters). So when I'm lifting the screen to get to my keyboard, for instance while writing reviews of the device like I'm doing now--there's no way to lock the 24 several inches above my hands to keep it clear of the keys. Now, it does naturally lift and stay about five inches above the keyboard on its own, but a few more inches and a locking mechanism that works for any angle would have been great.

    On that note, the locking tab that keeps the screen upright for easel painters seems a little cheap and not nearly as solid as everything else on the product. I find little things like this particularly odd, as it costs so much to make, design and then buy that I'd expect them to at least put a little more sturdiness into something that's supposed to lock the screen upright. Now, once it's locked, it's there to stay. No wobble, no feeling of stress or anything...it feels great upright. The locking trigger, though...weird.

    The buttons are great. Glad to have everything on the top of the device instead of below--but with the new adjusters for the support arm system on the sides, you couldn't safely reach under the screen now anyhow.

    I know that the new screen has the same levels of pressure as the 21, but I can't help but think (after using it every day four HOURS since it came in) that I'm getting better, more nuanced results with this than I was the 21UX. I don't think it's a trick of the mind, because I was expecting this to be exactly the same and I ended up having a better experience with the 24HD in this regard.

    Overall--completely, utterly worth the upgrade. Easier features, longer drawing times (due to better ergonomics for my particular drawing posture) and a general feeling of sturdiness that surpasses the 21UX make this a perfect solution for me.

    And that's my two cents...which is all I have left after purchasing the 24HD. *hahaha*

    Fred
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  27. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Lang View Post
    I'll probably stop posting here on CA.org, as I don't think these "moderators" actually exist. So find me on this DA page instead if you want to keep up with my stuff.
    uhhh.... You could have PM'd me or posted in the support forum.

    You have to be patient because CA is a big place and we get hit by a lot of spam. That's why when you first start posting here and on occasion you get hit with that.

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  29. #84
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    Cool review fred, looking forward to get my own..
    -We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.

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    Nice review. I'm glad to hear that it holds up when used for long periods in a working environment. Wacom have agreed to replace mine with a brand new one sometime this week, I'll post my own thoughts once I've had time to actually use it for awhile.
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    Hi. Nice forum, makes me feel less alone with my Cintiq24 HD.

    Cintiq 24 HD - Monitor calibration and profiling - This is a cross-posting from another forum. I am the author of the following message and of the video.

    I made this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3aluFR_7H4

    Description in the video:

    Welcome. Sorry for the low quality video.
    Here you can see a Cintiq 24HD that has been calibrated and profiled with a basICColor Discus Colorimeter and basIIColor software, in my opinion the best package to make monitor profiles.
    Just a short review of the monitor only capabilities.
    I heard many complains about the low quality of older Cintiq and I have to admit that I was a little bit disappointed when I tested the 2010 Cintiq 21UX.
    I found this display to be a good one also if it is not excellent. The default color temperature of 6500K is very close to the real value (6700K), the black is deep (with 105 cd/mq) I reached less than 0.2 cd/mq. Consequentially the contrast is very good, with a value of about 600:1. The average DeltaE 2000 of the validation is 0.43.
    I got good gradients, maybe a little bit too much “closed” in the dark areas, but I have to try different calibration settings.
    I tested my Cintiq in what could be a realistic usage scenario for a digital artist, with a non-light-controlled light environment.
    What I don’t like about the display is the low pixel density (compared to display that we have on mobile phones and cameras nowadays) and the angle of view, which is not very impressive.
    I have to investigate more about the gamut (it seems bigger than I expected).
    I hope my English was not too bad to make you understand.
    Your comments will be more than welcome.
    Thanks for watching.


    About the dark areas. I am now using CIECAM02 - dark as tonal response curve and I found it a very nice solution (now I can see difference between L*1 and L*0 value in Photoshop).
    Gamut is wider than I expected. Bigger than AdobeRGB, also if AdobeRGB is not 100% inside the gamut of the Cintiq. Not as big as recent Eizos and Necs.

    Cintiq 24HD?
    I don't know why ColorThinkPRO see the white as "5000K", my setting was D65 (and I can see the D65).

    The validation is not impressive, but not bad. Please notice that I moved the Discus in another area of the screen before making the calibration (20cm away from initial position) and this could have effected the results.

    Cintiq 24HD?

    The display has a matte/anti-glare finishing that has a texture that for my taste is too much evident (more than the SpectraView series overlay).

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    I have 2 question for the Cintiq 24HD users:
    1) The fan of my 24HD is noisy and it makes a non-uniform sound (like a broken fan). Is the same for yours?
    2) I can't make the Art Pen work correctly, I get pressure problems and unwanted "double clicks". Did anybody try the Art Pen?
    Thanks.

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    http://forum.wacom.eu/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7651 for a complete description of the Art Pen problem that I have. In Europe the Art Pen code is E01 for what I know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VitOne View Post
    I have 2 question for the Cintiq 24HD users:
    1) The fan of my 24HD is noisy and it makes a non-uniform sound (like a broken fan). Is the same for yours?
    2) I can't make the Art Pen work correctly, I get pressure problems and unwanted "double clicks". Did anybody try the Art Pen?
    Thanks.
    Yow! Sorry, Vit, I'm not experiencing any noise with my 24HD at all. I hear the fan rev up when it starts up, which is probably just its normal start procedure and self-check, but I have absolutely no fan noise during use.

    I am just using the pen that came with the Cintiq, so if you are using an Art Pen that's different from whatever came in the box, I can't speak to that--sorry.

    I look forward to hearing from other users. Sorry you're having some issues, though. I would be most unhappy if it were me. :-(
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    So to be sure, it doesn't have the multitouch that we've seen in that presentation video some time ago? Was looking forward to that. Oh well, don't have the money for one anyway right now

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    By Schneller in forum Artist Lounge
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    Last Post: September 9th, 2011, 10:33 AM

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