Batman's sidekick Robin (WIP)

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  1. #1
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    Batman's sidekick Robin (WIP)

    UPDATE: my 2nd picture is the latest one.

    Work in progress. Batman's sidekick Robin (WIP). I hope to get some good feedback and then post my progress.

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    Last edited by Drawallday; August 2nd, 2011 at 03:06 PM.
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  3. #2
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    His arms are either badly foreshortened or just really short. And I'd recommend using reference on the pose since the torso does not stay still and straight when the arms and legs move that way.

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    Step away from the comics and do some serious life drawing, including sketches of people on the streets, at the gym, beach, etc. It might not be a bad idea to pick up the Drawn to Life books from Walt Stanchfield.

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    Good effort! Not too bad. A lot of style. But ya I would have to agree. Some life drawing would benefit you greatly. His torso is pretty stiff. Theres no bend or movement in it. You should learn about opposite C's and such. Also I dont think hed be able to stand like that. Maybe for a brief second. But it would be awkward. His right leg is a bit weird. Not sure your trying some foreshortening. It just seems like he has a really small leg. Keep working though. Great potential!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit run View Post
    Step away from the comics and do some serious life drawing.
    Yes, I use anatomy books/photos for reference and practice quick gesture drawings. Here are few examples:

    Pose Maniacs
    http://www.posemaniacs.com/thirtysecond

    fineart.sk
    http://www.fineart.sk/?s=0&cat=12

    youtube, google etc.

    I don't go out and draw from actual life and last time was college a while ago. Personally, I don't think it makes a difference compared to photos and videos. What are your thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drawallday View Post

    I don't go out and draw from actual life and last time was college a while ago. Personally, I don't think it makes a difference compared to photos and videos. What are your thoughts?
    It helps because it trains your eye to see space and depth, photographs naturally flatten what you are viewing onto a 2D plane. You will understand foreshortening much better if you study it in a real life setting than from a photograph.

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  9. #7
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    Can you explain what he's doing, exactly?


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    Quote Originally Posted by abone114 View Post
    It helps because it trains your eye to see space and depth, photographs naturally flatten what you are viewing onto a 2D plane. You will understand foreshortening much better if you study it in a real life setting than from a photograph.
    Ok, I will give it a try. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Can you explain what he's doing, exactly?
    Nothing much. Random pose that pops in my head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drawallday View Post
    Nothing much. Random pose that pops in my head.
    Exactly. Not only is the entire pose random, but each individual element is random in a different way. So, it doesn't hold together or make any sense. My initial question was one that should never have to be asked, because the answer should be self-evident.
    There's your problem.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Drawallday View Post
    I don't go out and draw from actual life and last time was college a while ago. Personally, I don't think it makes a difference compared to photos and videos. What are your thoughts?
    We all learn differently, and you're free to learn your own way. However, I really think you're wrong about this. Photos and videos are good tools, I wont disagree there. But Drawing from life both feels different and usually gives a completely different feel to a drawing. Heck, just watching something moving, looking out for the lightplay and how it reacts to the shape, can give you volumes of information you will be hard pressed to really get in videos and especially images.

    I mean, if you want to draw something simple like a cup. Sure you could get a video of it, or an image and do fine from there. But you wont really learn much from it. Most of the knowledge you apply using that reference will be things you already know. Now, compare this to having an actual cup in your hands. Feel it, turn it, walk around it, observe how everything interconnects and how it behaves and looks in space, and not only will you learn about cups, you will learn about lighting, texture, form, perspective and so on. And that is even without drawing a single stroke. However, drawing will of course (if done in the right state of mind that is) really imprint that information into your head, and will teach you the important art of representing 3D on a 2D medium.

    Again there's nothing wrong with image and video refs. They can be good if you need to draw something accuratly given that you already have the knowhow to do it. However, to really learn, very little, if anything, beats real life.

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    Elwell made a very strong point. I can see you haven't been doing much life drawing either. Your anatomy isn't bad, but you don't seem to comprehend you are animating form. You just have the shapes broken down, which photo ref can teach you, but not much else is done right. I'd recommend you go back to studying hatchet work. try storyboarding motion from a youtube video or something.

    Last edited by Raoul Duke; July 27th, 2011 at 02:17 AM. Reason: typing in the dark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Exactly. Not only is the entire pose random, but each individual element is random in a different way. So, it doesn't hold together or make any sense. My initial question was one that should never have to be asked, because the answer should be self-evident.
    There's your problem.
    Very well put.

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    I think these guys have already said almost everything. I think you should practice more on drawing the human form than directly jumping into serious work. Try drawing using only line-art. It's hard for me to explain but you'll get the point once you practice it.

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    Pose Maniacs is not really a good resource for figure drawing.

    Photo reference itself can suffer from the same problems: stiff, awkward posing; images being presented as 'action' poses, but have a lack of tension in the body - any sensitivity to this is gained only through actual observation and practice with living, breathing people; whether it's a model in a life-drawing class or a pedestrian.

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    I'm going to do a week's worth of life drawing and do another super hero picture. Thanks.

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  19. #16
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    Well, I think everyone did say it, but here's my 2 cents as a comic artist myself (of sorts anyhow...)

    A lot of people start out drawing comic art before life drawings. They also don't look at movement, fighting stances, balance etc when drawing and base everything on what they see in a comic book. This results in flat, unnatural and un-dynamic images.

    You should in fact be doing the former. Start with life dawings, while I kinda like the old school feel you have with your comic art (very Jack Kirby-ish. A legend in he comic world) you haven't got flow. And we all could tell by the awkward pose and nature of the image.

    I do Muai Thai and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (not EXACTLY MMA, because I do my Muai Thai more) and my understanding of action poses, fighting dynamics and positions is as a result, much better than most artists. I know where the hips and arms go, the center of balance, the look of the muscles, how people respond etc. I reccommend looking at action movies or even sparring sessions between boxers, martial artists etc. If you want flashier moves, take a gander at the performances which usually have more flourish.

    Comic art is a simplified version of life drawing. If you can draw life VERY well, your comic art, will look even better. Don't start simple and draw simple. Start complex and correctly, then use what you've learned to simplify the objects down. That is essentially the same as cartoons.

    I also recommend STUDYING comic art a bit, how they compose pinups and comic art anatomy and proportions. It is different to the usual anatomy.

    Good luck.

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  20. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetchilliphil View Post
    Well, I think everyone did say it, but here's my 2 cents as a comic artist myself (of sorts anyhow...)

    A lot of people start out drawing comic art before life drawings. They also don't look at movement, fighting stances, balance etc when drawing and base everything on what they see in a comic book. This results in flat, unnatural and un-dynamic images.

    You should in fact be doing the former. Start with life dawings, while I kinda like the old school feel you have with your comic art (very Jack Kirby-ish. A legend in he comic world) you haven't got flow. And we all could tell by the awkward pose and nature of the image.

    I do Muai Thai and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (not EXACTLY MMA, because I do my Muai Thai more) and my understanding of action poses, fighting dynamics and positions is as a result, much better than most artists. I know where the hips and arms go, the center of balance, the look of the muscles, how people respond etc. I reccommend looking at action movies or even sparring sessions between boxers, martial artists etc. If you want flashier moves, take a gander at the performances which usually have more flourish.

    Comic art is a simplified version of life drawing. If you can draw life VERY well, your comic art, will look even better. Don't start simple and draw simple. Start complex and correctly, then use what you've learned to simplify the objects down. That is essentially the same as cartoons.

    I also recommend STUDYING comic art a bit, how they compose pinups and comic art anatomy and proportions. It is different to the usual anatomy.

    Good luck.
    Cool! I took karate lessons long ago (Okinawan karate, yellow with green stripe). I understand what you mean.

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    Quick Life Drawing Gestures

    Action poses and female anatomy. Used youtube video references.

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    sketches

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  23. #20
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    you have a sketchbook thread here, use it for studies and other stuff not related to a specific WIP process.

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    Here's my 2nd try.

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    Better than before, he looks a bit more balanced but now it looks like he's singing "I'm a little teapot" his left arm (on our right) is off big time. Try to make sure your silhouettes read better. If I squint my eyes I should be able to tell what his pose is.

    here's kind of what I mean

    http://www.ewestlund.com/images/silhouettes.gif

    if you want his hand on his hip there it needs to be more readable. If not repose that arm to be more dynamic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abone114 View Post
    Better than before, he looks a bit more balanced but now it looks like he's singing "I'm a little teapot" his left arm (on our right) is off big time. Try to make sure your silhouettes read better. If I squint my eyes I should be able to tell what his pose is.

    here's kind of what I mean

    http://www.ewestlund.com/images/silhouettes.gif

    if you want his hand on his hip there it needs to be more readable. If not repose that arm to be more dynamic.
    Glad it is looking better. I will keep silhouettes in mind next time I do another picture.

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