Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 37
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    431
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts

    Clueless boss-anyone experience this?

    Hello all,

    Months ago, I posted a thread about my part-time job in a small print shop, a mere five minutes from where I live. It's owned by one guy who bought the business out from a former owner over a year ago and he's got three workers under him, basically me (in-house designer), public relations/promotions lady, and production lady (assembly and cutting).

    The hours are okay as I work for about 3 to 4 hours daily, even though sometimes I get certain days off when there is no work available at the shop.

    He did not upgrade to a new iMac until several months later, a month AFTER I got mine for home/pro use which is funny timing. And the 27 inch iMac has been very handy for heavy multi-page layout and printing, even other simple jobs.

    But the crux of this topic is not about the shop and rather relating to him as not being a 'true' art director. It has become clear to me that he does'nt speak 'graphic design' jargon, leading me to believe that he never was an art director nor had experience as one. However, he was pretty old school when it came to doing 'mechanical' layouts many years ago as he told me at the start of my job.

    I don't plan on staying in there forever even though it's a good job, but does'nt pay that much. I do my best to try and educate him on certain things relating to the software as he's asked me advice on. He's no expert on Photoshop nor Illustrator, lacking experience in those two (like I said, he's old school). I'm the only one who knows how to use them. I do what I can to remind him to update software patches and Mac OS X downloads even though he never does that. He even keeps files that are older than 5 years that originated from PageMaker and Adobe InDesign CS2 on the old G4, although we updated a lot of them through CS5 in the new iMac.

    The only application he knows is Microsoft Office, other apps, and InDesign, using two Xerox press machines and an AB DICK D-stat machine to print out the blueprint for the press that is sub-contracted to the college that has that particular equipment. He's a very nice guy but sometimes he can be clueless about things.

    What I'm basically asking is if anyone has ever had the experience of dealing with bosses who do not clearly have experience as an art director, being unable to speak in your jargon to communicate effectively? Also, do any of you regard this as a 'red flag' and a sign to jump to something else? Would any of you have preferred to work under a real art director or one who is not?

    I'm under the impression that art directors usually know exactly what is involved, are able to troubleshoot software issues, handle customers effectively especially to the point when not to be pushed around by them, are able to talk to designers on their level and language, and so on.

    I'm just wondering about anyone's experiences.

    Thanks!


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    2,902
    Thanks
    3,102
    Thanked 1,944 Times in 1,012 Posts
    Hi Pilgrim. As you said, it's a part time job at a small print shop and your boss is a nice guy and you plan on moving on soon anyway...

    I'm not trying to undermine your issue or anything...but...problem?

    All bosses need help sometimes.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles CA
    Posts
    2,395
    Thanks
    199
    Thanked 487 Times in 221 Posts
    eh... you are in a totally different industry than me...
    in my industry its the producers that are mostly clueless. they'll tell the client, "oh yeah we can make those changes right away, they will be ready end of day tomorrow." then they come to you and say they told the client this and you're like "WTF?!!?!? thats a weeks worth of work you fuck!!!"
    and when you get to big studios, they just dont seem to know WHAT you do. for example: i am primarily a designer/photographer/illustrator, but i CAN animate in aftereffects and C4d.
    but i really shine doing styleframes, pitches for jobs. i have a reputation in the last 10+ years in my career of winning jobs with my design frames.
    CURRENTLY? i'm at a studio thats got tons of pitches going on around me for various jobs. am i on any of them? nope. what exactly do they have me doing? modifying animations that someone else did. hell, one day they brought me in just to RENDER something. i literally sat down, hit render on the file, and watched the fucking render bar until it was done. then i asked my producer if there was anything else and she said no. even though all around me i see people working on pitches, working on shit that i could ROCK and hearing the art directors complaining about being short handed.
    and i TOLD her this. i explained this to her, that i'm more of a designer, that i WIN JOBS with my pitches. this is what i DO. its what i'm known for. and she just says "ok, well we'll give you call"

    explain that one to me?

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    SE London, UK
    Posts
    583
    Thanks
    163
    Thanked 161 Times in 137 Posts
    This is how I felt at uni. At least you're being payed, I payed for clueless tutors to tell me the most impractical method of doing something and found out from people here, peers or the internet how to do it properly. :/
    Art Blog | CA Sketchbook

    True progress means matching the world to the vision in our heads.
    But we always change the vision instead.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles CA
    Posts
    2,395
    Thanks
    199
    Thanked 487 Times in 221 Posts
    ha, that too
    a few years ago i had a neighbor who was an artist too. he was going to the art institute and knocked on my door one day: his computer blew up and needed to get his homework done.
    i let him use my machine, but i could see what he was doing: inking an illustration in illustrator. painstakingly tracing off his drawing, outlining the LINE quality by hand! just for one line he was tracing both sides!
    i showed him how to put a stroke on a line first, he was stunned
    then i showed him how to add a brush to it so that it does thick to thin, and he was in awe
    he did his homework in 10 min, thanked me and said "dude, you just taught me more than the last month of class has. fuckers. they dont know shit"

    so i got a follow up on that
    he showed the instructor what i showed him, and he said the instructor backpeddled like a mofo saying "oh, i was just showing you how to draw shapes thats all, i wanted you to practice drawing shapes"
    fucking liar. haha
    you want to practice drawing shapes using the pen tool? give your students CAR photos and tell them to trace off all the panels.
    inking a drawing? its all about strokes and brushes.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    chitown.
    Posts
    381
    Thanks
    69
    Thanked 90 Times in 30 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtSyndicate View Post
    ha, that too
    a few years ago i had a neighbor who was an artist too. he was going to the art institute and knocked on my door one day: his computer blew up and needed to get his homework done.
    i let him use my machine, but i could see what he was doing: inking an illustration in illustrator. painstakingly tracing off his drawing, outlining the LINE quality by hand! just for one line he was tracing both sides!
    i showed him how to put a stroke on a line first, he was stunned
    then i showed him how to add a brush to it so that it does thick to thin, and he was in awe
    he did his homework in 10 min, thanked me and said "dude, you just taught me more than the last month of class has. fuckers. they dont know shit"

    so i got a follow up on that
    he showed the instructor what i showed him, and he said the instructor backpeddled like a mofo saying "oh, i was just showing you how to draw shapes thats all, i wanted you to practice drawing shapes"
    fucking liar. haha
    you want to practice drawing shapes using the pen tool? give your students CAR photos and tell them to trace off all the panels.
    inking a drawing? its all about strokes and brushes.
    the art institute? you mean the pittsburgh one?:
    Clueless boss-anyone experience this?

    because thats the one that displays their shitty advertisement on deviantart every time i go there for references

    if im wrong please send me a private message stating which art institute so i know where to NOT go
    ~*the artistic journey is like giving birth, its gonna hurt and you know you suck but you cant give up because there is no such thing as "giving up" in childbirth*~

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,883
    Thanks
    752
    Thanked 3,153 Times in 1,066 Posts
    Always be smarter than the people you work for.
    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to s.ketch For This Useful Post:


  10. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,830
    Thanks
    1,110
    Thanked 1,312 Times in 544 Posts
    It can be a little unnerving when your boss knows not-so-much about the industry. But to also be fair, if he DID know everything that you know, he wouldn't need you on the team.

    In order to get by in these industries you don't just want to be 'wanted', you have to be 'needed' too. Goes with almost any industry really. So yeah, don't worry about it.

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    chitown.
    Posts
    381
    Thanks
    69
    Thanked 90 Times in 30 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BlightedArt View Post
    It can be a little unnerving when your boss knows not-so-much about the industry. But to also be fair, if he DID know everything that you know, he wouldn't need you on the team.
    not only that, if he was smarter than you, you wouldnt be able to get away with your mistakes and he would catch you right away if you made a cheap shot LOL
    not that you should ever be lazy anyway....
    ~*the artistic journey is like giving birth, its gonna hurt and you know you suck but you cant give up because there is no such thing as "giving up" in childbirth*~

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Caracas
    Posts
    734
    Thanks
    261
    Thanked 1,191 Times in 293 Posts
    I had one instructor who was trying to teach us how all that makes a logo good was shine, some small bits of wisdom involved: "this need more shine" or, "you could add another shine here" and my favorite "why are you not making it shine?"

    She claimed to have been pro for years and work on all this current stuff and brag of her experience and knowing this guy and that guy who are elite, she didnt had any of that, all she has to back her up a wix page with the crappiest photos i`ve seen in my life, she doesn`t do nothing as a graphic designer and the only app she kinda knows is Photoshop, barely. On top she is an obnoxious, rude and unpleasant person to be around on any context.

    I changed classrooms , all her students spend all the semester wasting their time and money in really tacky projects she had them do. It really sucked because at least in that asignature i managed to get decent teachers until that point.

    Wasn`t a client or employer, sure , but still someone who i needed to spend a good amount of time doing stuff for, and it sucked.
    Last edited by JDSart; July 1st, 2011 at 07:18 PM.

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles CA
    Posts
    2,395
    Thanks
    199
    Thanked 487 Times in 221 Posts
    a few years ago i was working on this job for a food network show. it was about this group of troubled kids who turned their lives around by learning how to cook , blah blah blah
    so in the opening titles they wanted each of the kids to say a line, their name animate on next to them, then move the camera on to the next kid.
    so they shot the kids on greenscreen saying their lines. i looked through the footage of the girls and it was great. i had TONS of stuff to choose from. the lady directing the girls was a pro. she'd say "ok, say your line and put emphasis on this word", then "ok, this time look up at the camera and say your line", etc. there was like 10 takes for every kid.
    unfortunately for me, the guy directing the boys tried to trick them into saying their line. he didn't give them the script, he tried to get them to say their line naturally.
    WTF
    seriously.
    we're talking about street kids here. lots of um's, hmm's, know whatta sayin's, etc. slang, mumbling, and shit. but the worst part? NONE OF THEM EVER SAID THEIR LINE.
    i shit you not, one line was "food saved my life"
    the director asks the kid "soo... would you say that food saved your life?"
    and the kid was like "nah man, thats fuckin stupid. this shit was so i could get a job yo"
    hahahahahha
    i complained, told my art director they had to re-shoot. i couldn't use any of their footage. i told them to just make the kids say their line, hell, READ IT if they have to.
    so they re-shoot.
    and it was more of the same bullshit.
    fucking asshole.
    so i took all the footage, chopped out individual words, edited together those words to make their line and sent that to the director with an email saying
    "make them do this in one fucking take"
    finally he had the kids read their FUCKING LINE and i was able to do my job.

  14. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to TheDirtSyndicate For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  15. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    431
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtSyndicate View Post
    eh... you are in a totally different industry than me...
    in my industry its the producers that are mostly clueless. they'll tell the client, "oh yeah we can make those changes right away, they will be ready end of day tomorrow." then they come to you and say they told the client this and you're like "WTF?!!?!? thats a weeks worth of work you fuck!!!"
    and when you get to big studios, they just dont seem to know WHAT you do. for example: i am primarily a designer/photographer/illustrator, but i CAN animate in aftereffects and C4d.
    but i really shine doing styleframes, pitches for jobs. i have a reputation in the last 10+ years in my career of winning jobs with my design frames.
    CURRENTLY? i'm at a studio thats got tons of pitches going on around me for various jobs. am i on any of them? nope. what exactly do they have me doing? modifying animations that someone else did. hell, one day they brought me in just to RENDER something. i literally sat down, hit render on the file, and watched the fucking render bar until it was done. then i asked my producer if there was anything else and she said no. even though all around me i see people working on pitches, working on shit that i could ROCK and hearing the art directors complaining about being short handed.
    and i TOLD her this. i explained this to her, that i'm more of a designer, that i WIN JOBS with my pitches. this is what i DO. its what i'm known for. and she just says "ok, well we'll give you call"

    explain that one to me?
    Ouch :/. Now that is messed up!

  16. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    431
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by stragan View Post
    the art institute? you mean the pittsburgh one?:
    Clueless boss-anyone experience this?

    because thats the one that displays their shitty advertisement on deviantart every time i go there for references

    if im wrong please send me a private message stating which art institute so i know where to NOT go
    AIP? I know a guy who used to go there years ago. Moved there from Cleveland to Pitts in the early 1990s. I don't live in C-town anymore, though. But I used to hang out with him way back in the day as he told me stories about AIP, though 'sugarcoated' in his views.

  17. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    431
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BlightedArt View Post
    It can be a little unnerving when your boss knows not-so-much about the industry. But to also be fair, if he DID know everything that you know, he wouldn't need you on the team.

    In order to get by in these industries you don't just want to be 'wanted', you have to be 'needed' too. Goes with almost any industry really. So yeah, don't worry about it.
    Exactly. I think he's learning as time goes by, but he does'nt know everything about the digital process, let alone the printing aspects of the shop. As long as they need me, I'm fine. I think it's really the working habits he has that usually muddy the processes a bit. It takes time to iron it out and improve the operations of the print shop.

  18. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,830
    Thanks
    1,110
    Thanked 1,312 Times in 544 Posts
    Yeah it takes a bit of time. But you'll already be being appreciated as a valuable part of the work force because of taking the time to help optimize / refine his work approach. Really; you're coming out as more of the winner in this situation (the pay off being the slight annoyance of setting the record straight every now and then).

  19. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles CA
    Posts
    2,395
    Thanks
    199
    Thanked 487 Times in 221 Posts
    *update*
    i went above her head, the producer that wasn't booking me to do what i do best.
    originally i wrote this long email to that producer, but i asked my girlfriend what she thought about it and she flipped out and said "DONT SEND THAT"
    soooo, yeah. i went above that producers head, straight to the EP and did what my girlfriend recommended: to be nothing but positive. dont say you are unhappy with what they are putting you on, focus on what excites you, what inspires you, focus on what you love doing and she'll see your excitement, your passion for design. she told me to bring my most recent work in and SHOW the EP everything that i do, that in all likelihood she has no idea what i do and what i'm good at.
    so i showed her. i brought in a TON of new work, stuff i haven't posted on my website or these forums, and we had a big sit down.
    to make a long story short, SHE was the one who said what was on my mind. she spoke up and said "oh... so we got you on _____job, thats probably driving you nuts huh?" haha
    i responded with "well thats why i'm always sketching in photoshop while i'm on this job, as long as nobody gives me any flack for that i dont mind it at all"

    so there ya go. positive positive positive. and now things are lookin up. she told me she'd put me on more pitches, and MAYBE even some concept art work.

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TheDirtSyndicate For This Useful Post:


  21. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,147
    Thanks
    782
    Thanked 490 Times in 312 Posts
    Yea, real world is quite different then the school setting.
    Welcome to the real world.
    It's a small print shop.... the owner probably had some money to invest into a print shop, wanting to do something he's somewhat qualified for. So it goes.
    If he's open to new stuff, share it with him... if he's not, don't push it, or you'll end up in a conflict with the boss.

    IRL, there are probably more bosses who are not completely qualified for the position that they are in, then those who are.
    There are lot of different reasons why one person or another had come to the position they are in. Technical knowledge is often not one of those reasons.

  22. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Nottingham UK
    Posts
    1,378
    Thanks
    492
    Thanked 1,248 Times in 588 Posts
    Then you'll probably find this amusing - clients & bosses (more graphic/advertising/website design related but still good):

    http://www.clientcopia.com/

  23. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    431
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    Then you'll probably find this amusing - clients & bosses (more graphic/advertising/website design related but still good):

    http://www.clientcopia.com/
    Classic

  24. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    431
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Conniekat8 View Post
    Yea, real world is quite different then the school setting.
    Welcome to the real world.
    It's a small print shop.... the owner probably had some money to invest into a print shop, wanting to do something he's somewhat qualified for. So it goes.
    If he's open to new stuff, share it with him... if he's not, don't push it, or you'll end up in a conflict with the boss.

    IRL, there are probably more bosses who are not completely qualified for the position that they are in, then those who are.
    There are lot of different reasons why one person or another had come to the position they are in. Technical knowledge is often not one of those reasons.
    I agree in that he was investing in the shop and learning new things on the go. I think, in truth, he relies on me for my experiences using the software since he does lack in that background. Even though, he does know the basics, but not the advanced aspects of Adobe CS.

    But, for several months now, he would contact me that there was no work for the day and I would be given the day off. This happens usually once a week. Even twice in one week. Sometimes it happens every other few weeks. When it gets very slow, I get the day off.

    I understand that it may be the norm for some print shops around the country or the creative field in general, but I'm also seeing that the smaller the print shop, the less likely it'll be stable. A larger print house would probably have more things in demand and have longer hours than a smaller one would.

    I'm wondering if him giving me days off due to slowness is a 'red flag' or something I should take note and move on to something else. It's a nice job, I'll say again, but it's not one where I can grow professionally since it's part time for a few hours a day :/. I would love to do more creative work on my own at home on a full-time capacity, but not right now. I just have to figure out a way to save up more money and move back up to Burlington which is the largest city in Vermont than Middlebury, a small college town famous for Robert Frost which goes to sleep at 6pm every day compared to the 'big city'. I grew up in the big city suburbs all my life from the mid west and living in a boring town is somewhat killing me.

    (It's a long story, but I digress)

  25. #21
    Ilaekae's Avatar
    Ilaekae is offline P.O.W.! Leader, Complete Idiot, Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Southwestern Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,129
    Thanks
    8,241
    Thanked 5,581 Times in 1,789 Posts
    Story removed just to be safe. I just found out that three of the people involved still work at the place I described, and they would definitely put two and two together, as stupid as they are.
    Last edited by Ilaekae; July 15th, 2011 at 01:03 PM.
    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary

  26. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    1,221
    Thanks
    887
    Thanked 1,535 Times in 567 Posts
    That's not bad boss stuff. It's good to be valuable but I would say never stop looking for a job that will help you grow.

    I'm not going to tell you much about this boss that I had. Typical ass, little guy with Napoleon syndrome. Walked with his neck in perpetual forward thrust position. He made life miserable for a lot of us. One of my greatest responses was the mini-condom barrage. We had an item, little rubber finger tip thingies for turning pages, which looked exactly like tiny condoms. I did a sketch of the boss with his head coming out of the rubber thing. The gang around me liked it so we put in motion the plan. Finding a photo of him we copied and cut out nearly 100 of him, put his head into the little rubbers and placed them all around the store. We made the cutouts with scissors so he wouldn't link it to the art department right away. He never said anything but for awhile his head was in a dangerously precarious thrust position and his face was always red. Thank goodness I was hired away to teach across the country. I'm pretty sure he knew who it was.

    Moral: Count your lucky stars that your boss is not a dick too.

    Bill'Studio

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to bcarman For This Useful Post:


  28. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    431
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by bcarman View Post
    Moral: Count your lucky stars that your boss is not a dick too.

    Bill'Studio
    Agreed. Why, just today as of this morning, he emailed me saying to take the day off due to lack of work to do, as in lack of projects at the print shop. It sounds to me that it is a sign that I either will have to quit the job in the future and find a new one that is more stable and one, in which I can grow professionally.

    The shop is too small to have more than four people on staff and I think he's trying to save money. Nothing wrong with that, though, if it's for the right reasons. He emails me only since I'm hard of hearing, in case of anything.

    Just recently, last Friday, he asked me to create a step by step list on how to back up files on external hard drives. I think he's trying to take initiative to learn how to do it or have a protocol for it, in case, I'm not in office. And he asked me to show the one lady how to create a curved path line to convert it to a curved text. Really easy stuff, but I didn't have time to get around to it, since her job is promoting the shop, selling promotionals and sometimes doing some production and basic design work here.

    But I know I will have to drop this job eventually when I have enough funds to move back up to the big city.

  29. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    431
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts

    UPDATE!

    UPDATE: I think there is good reason for me to leave this job in the future. The reason I say this is because for a long time, I knew there was something 'off' about this job.

    I will say it again. It has nothing to do with my boss' character since he's a real nice guy and we just celebrated the 25th anniversary of the store's history last week (I'm surprised the business lasted that long in this rural town). However, the ignorance is glaringly evident. One person responded here saying that it's good to have the print shop "need" me since they don't have the digital skills.

    That's true and I agree with that. However, since he bought the print shop from the previous owner, he is shooting himself in the foot. The reason he needed a graphic designer was because, as I discovered, he does NOT know how to do Photoshop and Illustrator. When he hired another person who is an older lady to do the public relations/marketing for the store, she was also trained by him to do some basic InDesign work despite the fact she has NO design background.

    She had no clue what a vector was and I had to explain it to her. To this day, these two people still do not know how to create vector images, manipulate images on Photoshop, take one Pantone color from one application to another, etc. All they know how to do is basic InDesign work. They don't have an understanding of graphic design theory (or illustration). No, I'm not joking.

    But wait. It gets better. Since I work for the boss on an hourly wage, I'm aware that the store does charge customers hourly based on MY custom design work. That is, on my level of work experience. The owner never told me the actual amount and I assumed it would be close to $50 an hour as standard. Over a month ago, I happened to glimpse at one paper invoice and noticed a surcharge relating to custom design (which is what I do that the other 'semi-dinosaurs are incapable of). The amount I saw made my jaw drop.

    For over more than a year since I work for the boss/owner, he had been charging customers $25.00 an hour on my custom work. I didn't say anything or confront the boss. I privately contacted a local AIGA group and asked for advice. They arranged a meeting with a local designer and the lady confirmed to me that I wasn't 'seeing' things. She said that $25.00 an hour is too low for industry standards, especially when I've been using Adobe apps for many years.

    The most bizarre thing about it is that my boss told me that he wouldn't have a problem if customers are referred to me and hired me 'outside' the store to do custom design work and bring the stuff back to print out. I NEVER got customers throughout the whole time. Plus, he had at least three local designers' business cards stacked up and I wouldn't be surprised that he didn't refer customers to them, either.

    I think it's a huge issue because it doesn't feel right to me. And I know for a fact that the owner cannot afford to hire me full-time nor afford a raise. He's on a tight budget which I can totally understand, but $25.00 an hour? If it was $40 an hour, it would be okay. I believe he kept it so low to retain the local customers due to rurality's sake. And I'm the youngest one in the store while the other three people (owner, PR lady and production lady) are all in their 50s and 60s. It's starting to grate on me even though they're very, very nice people, but I don't have much in common with them :/.

    I really need to raise some cash and get the hell out of this town back up north to Burlington somehow. I'm pretty sure I've been working at the wrong environment and am a bit pissed that the owner never told me the actual amount they charge customers because, an old friend of mine suggested that it is close to working 'on spec' for customers and the store to use me for cheap.

  30. #25
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    3,233
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 849 Times in 457 Posts
    Having a semi-regular paycheck and some reasonable amount of free time is the best possible context to go out and get freelance gigs. If you can't do it now, you never will. This is not a problem, it's an opportunity.

  31. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    1,679
    Thanks
    699
    Thanked 596 Times in 283 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1099
    am a bit pissed that the owner never told me the actual amount they charge customers because

    You're an employee, and you get paid; what your boss charges customers is really none of your business.

    If you don't like it leave, but it's unlikely from what you say that you'll be any happier elsewhere.

  32. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    431
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig D View Post
    You're an employee, and you get paid; what your boss charges customers is really none of your business.

    If you don't like it leave, but it's unlikely from what you say that you'll be any happier elsewhere.
    I'm not saying it's my business. After all, the custom design surcharge is'nt a 'secret' nor do they whisper it out of their mouths behind my back to the customers. My boss KNOW that designers outside of the store command a higher hourly fee compared to the store and it was his goal to keep it reasonable and that was way back over a year ago when he first hired me. The prices in the list are there in front of us.

    Graphic designers do have a right to know about that when working in-house. IF you did that freelance on the outside, $25.00 an hour IS definitely BELOW industry standards. Way too low from what the AIGA member told me. It's almost like 'low balling' it.

    I can understand if he's making the custom design surcharges "accessible" to local customers. So, tell me. Have you EVER dealt with a print shop or business that does $25.00 an hour for custom design work?

    Let me put it this way. If you went freelance from your home office and charged $60 an hour for your custom design work based on your skill and experience and work in a part-time print shop in the day-time where THEY charge customers $25.00 an hour based on YOUR work, would'nt you find that bizarre?

    I don't make money off the hourly fees since the revenues go to the store and only get a bi-weekly check, just like any other job. We don't do offset work (it's outsourced to a local college who has a print department) and it's like a small scale version of a Kinko's.

    Most parts of the job is okay, but does feel limiting to a degree. I have no plans to stay in this town forever when I got out of homelessness four years ago and need to find a way to relocate back up to the big city north. I got marooned here (long story). They are nice folks to work with, but they are not the right people for me to work with. The environment feels wrong to me almost as if I'm Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day" or to some degree "Doc Hollywood" (Michael J Fox film).

  33. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    431
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Qitsune View Post
    Having a semi-regular paycheck and some reasonable amount of free time is the best possible context to go out and get freelance gigs. If you can't do it now, you never will. This is not a problem, it's an opportunity.
    It's what I've been trying to do and have done some of it. Right now, it's a game design gig with an old friend from Toronto and one book cover with an author-client. I don't want to take on too much or else I'll get distracted/overwhelmed easily. I do want to do more freelance work, but I have to find a way to move back up north and cut off this day job. There's no way I'm driving 35 miles back and forth just for that day job which is only about 3 to 4 hours a day. I know there is something better out there. I'm just not sure yet since I need to get out of "limbo" first to see the clearing of the woods to get my life back on track.

  34. #29
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    14,029
    Thanks
    4,219
    Thanked 6,722 Times in 4,628 Posts
    Sounds like your boss doesn't know how to quote correctly for jobs. At my job my charge out rate is £80ph. If I don't have the time to do a great job, it's my boss's decision to ask for more input and take the hit or ask the client to cough up more.

  35. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    431
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Spot View Post
    Sounds like your boss doesn't know how to quote correctly for jobs. At my job my charge out rate is £80ph. If I don't have the time to do a great job, it's my boss's decision to ask for more input and take the hit or ask the client to cough up more.
    I suspect, in my observation, that since the store just celebrated it's 25th anniversary last week at a local restaurant, the shop has never grown more than three people all those years. I've been in this town for four years so far. I think they're so dead set in their ways in a "bubble" that they won't expand at all or have increased budgeting to make such a larger presence. I think they are entrenched and entrapped in the slow economy of this college town, despite the fact the college is one of the more famous campuses in the country.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. clueless, need help
    By sevenfold in forum Education & Schools for Artists
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: April 2nd, 2010, 06:25 PM
  2. help me 'cuz i'm clueless
    By Slade in forum Education & Schools for Artists
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: May 23rd, 2005, 12:02 AM
  3. Art: Newbe-clueless
    By schnitzel in forum Finished Art
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 29th, 2004, 04:15 AM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Designed by The Coldest Water, we build the coldest best water bottles, ice packs and best pillows.