Can someone explain this to me plz?

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  1. #1
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    Can someone explain this to me plz?

    ok, i posted this in my sketchbook but it doesn't look like im gunna get an answer, so im posting it here.

    Now the problem, how do you make smooth tonal transitions with a hard brush? Im always being told to stay away from soft brushes and just use blending and hard brushes but all i ever end up with a splotchy mess. Can anyone tell me how they would render this ball?

    I spent a good 45 mins trying to get this to work, but nothing...

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    First of all, you need to simplify and block in your initial values more accurately. Your reflected light is much too intense and extends onto the shadow far too much.
    Here's what I see, from darkest to lightest:
    1: form shadow, edge plane in reflected light
    2: Main reflected light, halftone
    3: Brightest reflected light, main light
    4: Center light
    Get those blocked in as accurately as you can in both value and shape at full opacity, then start working on the transitions by lowering the opacity (or setting it to pressure) and using the standard resample and stroke technique.


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  5. #3
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    im trying to do what you said, and its fine at first but the more i blend the messier it gets.. Also i have this problem when i use low opacity, if you draw over a line you have already put down it goes twice as dark, i think that's where the splotches come from.

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    I would zoom in at 200% and use a 10% opacity brush to blend or use the blur tool hehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by element1988 View Post
    if you draw over a line you have already put down it goes twice as dark, i think that's where the splotches come from.
    only if the color "on your brush" is a darker value than you already laid down.

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  9. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sone_one View Post
    only if the color "on your brush" is a darker value than you already laid down.
    so working dark to light would solve this?

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    hrm if you need to go lighter, pick a lighter value. darker > darker value. the reason to turn down opacity is just to be able to make smoother transitions. but no way you can get something lighter by having a darker value on your brush, no matter how low your opacity is.

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  12. #8
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    Maybe it's just me, and it doesn't matter for an excercise like this anyway (where you're just working on matching values and edges), but if I'm not mistaken that is a CG rendered scene? It doesn't seem very accurate to me as far as how light behaves.

    You'd be a lot better off getting a sphere of some sort and lighting it yourself to see what is really happening with the light and shadow. Just try it out and you'll instantly see the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    Maybe it's just me, and it doesn't matter for an excercise like this anyway (where you're just working on matching values and edges), but if I'm not mistaken that is a CG rendered scene? It doesn't seem very accurate to me as far as how light behaves.

    You'd be a lot better off getting a sphere of some sort and lighting it yourself to see what is really happening with the light and shadow. Just try it out and you'll instantly see the difference.
    im not sure, i was looking for a ref for ages, that was the best one i could find. Most of them didnt have shadows.

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  17. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxtrot Wolfwhistle View Post
    http://www.guidetooilpainting.com/shadows.html Here you go, there are a few photographs of white balls there. The shadows are more subtle, but you could also experiment with colour reflection.
    nice! thx man, oo00 they got cones too XD yay!

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    Use a mask or the selection tool and a bigger brush. I did this one in a few minutes. yes it has flaws because I was in a hurry but its closer to what you want. So basically I select the sphere and then paint it black and then make a brush that gives me the size and shape of the terminator edge between light and shadow that way I don't have to try and paint it by hand. All the shapes are done that way

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  20. #13
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    also, paintings arent meant to be viewed close up, i would warrant if you put that image up on your screen and stand back about 10 to 15 feet it would look far better than you realize. the eye optically blends many tonal transitions. one thing that really helps me a lot when i work digitally is to always have the navigator window up in photoshop with a small version of my painting as i work, i constantly check to make sure it looks good small and shrunk down, in general, if it looks good and reads clear really small, your tones are probably working fairly well.

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  22. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    Use a mask or the selection tool and a bigger brush. I did this one in a few minutes. yes it has flaws because I was in a hurry but its closer to what you want. So basically I select the sphere and then paint it black and then make a brush that gives me the size and shape of the terminator edge between light and shadow that way I don't have to try and paint it by hand. All the shapes are done that way
    dpaintCan you explain how you make your terminator brushes a little bit more? I think you mean that the brush is the right size to accommodate the gradation you're aiming for?

    daniel I also do same thing with navigator and recommend it. The only drawback is that your navigator image always looks super awesome lol.

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  23. #15
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    dpaint: that's awesome man but could you explain how you made your brush if you have the time? also is there a way to make soft edges with a hard brush? or should i just abandon that idea and learn to only use soft brushes when its really necessary?

    Im just a little confused because so many people tell me not to use soft brushes but i don't really see another way to get soft edges cleanly.

    DanielBodinof: Great tip man, ive never thought of it like that before, im sure that idea will stay with me for a very long time.

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    [QUOTE=element1988;3163415]dpaint: that's awesome man but could you explain how you made your brush if you have the time? also is there a way to make soft edges with a hard brush? or should i just abandon that idea and learn to only use soft brushes when its really necessary?

    Im just a little confused because so many people tell me not to use soft brushes but i don't really see another way to get soft edges cleanly.QUOTE]

    The brush is just a softer brush that is the diameter of the terminator and a little angle to it. Its opacity is at 75 %. For the reflection and reflected light I lowerd the opacity down to 10 % and adjusted the size to fit the areas I was working on.

    This idea you have to use a hard brush all the time is stupid. Use the type of brush that gives you the mark you are trying to make. Its that simple. The reason people tell you to use a hard brush starting out is to get new artists to be more deliberate with their marks. That style though is not appropriate for every image. Very few people if any can paint that sphere with a hard brush and have it mimic the original image.

    Most digital art now is too caught up on fake brush textures. This is to compensate for a lack of skill for the most part.

    Last edited by dpaint; June 22nd, 2011 at 11:22 AM.
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  26. #17
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    thx dpaint you have opened up my mind, i am eternally grateful

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  27. #18
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    Great question, element! And to all who answered, thanks: your advice deflected off of element and got me pretty good. I'm still trying to figure out how to make my stuff look more painterly, and trying to use hard brushes has resulted in a lot of garbage results. Unfortunately, it looks like there isn't yet an app or filter that replaces practice. Dang it.

    Element, when you mentioned the 'getting darker with opaque brushstrokes' problem, it made me wonder if you had your brush (or layer blending property) set to 'multiply'. On a separate note (from someone who is still in the fetal stage of digital painting), this guy has some great tutorials, including a brand spanking new one about blending, right on the first page:

    http://www.ctrlpaint.com/

    Thanks again to element and wise responders for a very valuable thread.

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