Is it possible to only draw characters in a full time job? - Page 2
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Thread: Is it possible to only draw characters in a full time job?

  1. #31
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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasi View Post
    theres a reason why I'm asking this kind of things even though I'm a beginner.

    The problem I see is that the course goes into realms that are quite advanced.
    And so I began to think about the possibilities and the industry...
    Why does this sound like you're hoping to find out that you can totally skip all the hard and advanced stuff that you don't like doing (like backgrounds), instead of really being interested in the possibilities of the industry?

    Overall, a character designer in an animated series might be your best bet. If I remember right, Cheeks http://conceptart.org/?artist=cheeks-74 had to design 10-20 background characters per day while working in the Spectacular Spider-Man series.

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    You won't get as much out of advanced classes if you are missing the basics. Advanced stuff tends to build on the basics.
    Alos, if the advanced program is a full time program, and you need to play catchup with the basics on top of that, you are likely to end up running out of time to pay decent attention to either, and run the risk of both skills ending up half-baked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasi View Post
    theres a reason why I'm asking this kind of things even though I'm a beginner.

    I found a possible 2 years course in concept art here in my country. I talked with the school and all the people around me that are creative. We got into an argument about me worrying that i will not get the most of the course because of my level of skill, and that what I need is to draw from life and get better at drawing generally from observation first.
    What the school and my friends said was that if I really want to I can keep up by making an effort and that I will become better as the course progresses. The problem I see is that the course goes into realms that are quite advanced.
    And so I began to think about the possibilities and the industry...
    To address this second part of your question/research. Your friends are absolutely correct and it's great that you have them around and that they will be honest with you. As I keep saying focus on drawing and observation. Everything else will be based on that. We're not talking ten years before you can even apply to the program - maybe a year of fairly diligent effort and study. If you want to be doing art as a career you need to be passionate and pretty much consumed by it anyway - it is not a realm for dabblers.

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    Regarding animation (the side conversation). A friend of mine is a lead animator at Disney. He was essentially let go a number of years back when they went all digital - they sold all their traditional animation equipment, desks, etc. He developed his digital skills on his own (I believe - or picked them up before leaving). They called him back 3-4 years ago as he was one of the few traditional/digital guys around when they rebuilt their entire traditional approach. Disney has struggled with some of the animated features they've released since then but I don't think it is because they went back to traditional. This summer Winnie the Pooh will be coming out and it looks like they got this one right.

    Personally I can't imagine how an animator (unless they're doing robots, vehicles, etc.) could develop their skills but not be able to draw - though I will certainly defer to Rabbit Run as they are much more part of that industry.

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    I'm sorry for my English but what I meant was exactly the opposite of what I said, I believe.

    - What I really said (not them) was that I need to draw from observation. That I'm not at the right level to take that course.
    - They said that I could make an effort to draw and take the course. And that it will be difficult but I can do it. That I know how to draw, just need to keep drawing.
    I'm a very realistic person and I know my level of skill, so I couldn't believe their words.

    (sometimes I get lost in my line of thought, especially in English)

    So, the problem is that I'm more aware of my lack of knowledge them they are. Especially my friends, because I can understand that the school wants the money and to fill the class (hope that's the reason).

    It was like 7 against 1, and I couldn't make my arguments prevail. They just think differently. And because I know I don't own reason, I'm trying to understand if I'm wrong in some point, giving the benefit of doubt.
    I was starting to accept that I could do it too...

    Last edited by pegasi; June 8th, 2011 at 02:40 PM.
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    Just to be clear - I think I understood things correctly the first time. But they were saying 7 to 1 that you should take the course or shouldn't at this time? Not that it matters too much - the idea is that you will get the most out of the program if you have a solid foundation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    Your friends are absolutely correct and it's great that you have them around and that they will be honest with you. As I keep saying focus on drawing and observation.
    That's wrong. I think that I need to draw more from observation. They don't.


    I've Shown interest in the course but also said that I was worried about my skill level.

    They said that I should take the course and make an effort to keep up.

    What makes no sense at all is the people who teach the course telling me that. Like I know more about the process of learning them they do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasi View Post
    It was like 7 against 1, and I couldn't make my arguments prevail. They just think differently. And because I know I don't own reason, I'm trying to understand if I'm wrong in some point, giving the benefit of doubt.
    I was starting to accept that I could do it too...
    The last time I listened to friends who said "oh yeah, you can totally go on this advanced bike ride, no problem!" I ended up having to quit the ride before we even reached the park where we would be riding. Luckily I didn't sign up for a 2-year bike program and could just quit gracefully.

    If you talked to the school and you have doubts, then listen to your doubts. Your friends will not be giving you time and money back if they are wrong. You can always find another program in the future when you're ready.

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    Ahhh...ok, I understand now. Well, that makes a bit more sense because your friends probably want you to be part of the thing with them, and the school would probably be happy to have another paying student.

    To be honest, if it was me, and the money wasn't a huge issue, I would do it and just work my ass off to develop and grow. You'll be sharing the experience with friends and that may be more important than you know at this stage. Either way, you need to be working hard to develop so probably better to do it surrounded by school and peer support.

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    If they are kosher, ask to defer the course for a year. If they won't, they're just after your money.


    I didn't think it was possible to be called an artist when you have nothing to say. It's like being a writer who publishes individual words as books and expects to be praised for it.
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    You may have mentioned this already, and I missed it....
    Other then your friends, have you talked to the faculty or other people organizing the course? Show them our work, ask if your skills are up to par?

    Have you taken any basic art classes yet, or are you mostly self-taught?

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    Black Spot, the problem is that the course will not resume the next year, and will most probably just 2 or 3 years later, after this one is finished.
    And the next course will be more expensive, because this is the first year of the course so they are making it less expensive.

    Conniekat8, Yep, I've said it already and I have shown them my work at the first interview.
    I'm basically self taught.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit run View Post
    No. Please don't spread misinformation. 3D animators do not need to know how to draw.
    I think a 3D animator who has spent time learning anatomy and how the human body moves by drawing it, and a 3D animator who has never picked up a pencil should be drastically different in the level of quality in their work. I could model the best anatomy ever, but if I hand a character off to a rigger or animator who has no idea how a mesh should deform based on it's anatomical structure, or a good understanding of silhouette and motion, they can ruin all the good anatomy I made.

    Furthermore, while a lot of animation in 3D is motion capture, you can't just import it and be done with it, you must edit it and exaggerate it based on the knowledge you can only really obtain through study of drawing and 2D animation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek the Usurper View Post
    I think a 3D animator who has spent time learning anatomy and how the human body moves by drawing it, and a 3D animator who has never picked up a pencil should be drastically different in the level of quality in their work. I could model the best anatomy ever, but if I hand a character off to a rigger or animator who has no idea how a mesh should deform based on it's anatomical structure, or a good understanding of silhouette and motion, they can ruin all the good anatomy I made.

    Furthermore, while a lot of animation in 3D is motion capture, you can't just import it and be done with it, you must edit it and exaggerate it based on the knowledge you can only really obtain through study of drawing and 2D animation.
    Understanding silhouette, motion, performance, timing and spacing etc. are separate issues from drawing. Why does artistic knowledge only come from drawing? 3D animators interact with a model rather than a line drawing - doesn't mean they can't learn anatomy that way. Just like artists that draw they also observe and study how people move - it's just translated into a different medium than we expect.

    I'm talking about key animation, btw. Although I am well aware that motion capture has to go through cleanup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasi View Post
    Black Spot, the problem is that the course will not resume the next year, and will most probably just 2 or 3 years later, after this one is finished.
    And the next course will be more expensive, because this is the first year of the course so they are making it less expensive.
    So it's untried and you don't think you're ready. Have you looked at TAD?


    I didn't think it was possible to be called an artist when you have nothing to say. It's like being a writer who publishes individual words as books and expects to be praised for it.
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    rabbit run I agree with you. And I think it's more important for the animator to have drama classes (theater) than knowing how to draw. But theres one think a person that knows how to draw have that is important to the animator too, the attention to detail.

    Black Spot TAD is like 7 times more expensive than this course. In my country we pay less for education as well as everything, because we gain less money too. If I think that course is expensive then TAD is out of the equation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit run View Post
    No. Please don't spread misinformation. 3D animators do not need to know how to draw. And storyboards are often times handled by story artists, not animators.
    Actually, with some 2D television animation, it's all done in Flash with pre-drawn parts, and the animators don't necessarily create the parts themselves... so even the 2-D animators don't necessarily know how to draw.

    However - among the animators I've worked with, I've found that the animators who know how to draw traditional 2D animation the old-fashioned way tend to be better at animation in general.

    Also... on occasion I've worked with people who could draw well and hadn't really done animation before, but were able to turn out competent animation with a little guidance. I don't think that works the other way around.

    Last edited by QueenGwenevere; June 12th, 2011 at 05:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasi View Post
    What makes no sense at all is the people who teach the course telling me that. Like I know more about the process of learning them they do.
    Logically, there are four possibilities here that I can see.

    First, they're seeing more in your ability or potential than you are. They sincerely believe that you'll have no problem keeping up with the level of the class, and you'll benefit without hindering the other students.

    Second, you actually do know more about the process of learning than they do, in which case you should probably question their ability to instruct you. If I were teaching an intermediate or advanced class, and I know very little about teaching art (or teaching anything else for that matter), my first objective would be to make sure every student was in and around the same level. If this is the case, what other classes do they teach? Are they reputable?

    Third, they're unconcerned with education or the student experience. They want you to take the class because they want your money. Again, seriously consider their motives. What sort of experiences have past students had in other courses? Have you seen student work from before and after a course, to gauge whether students are being challenged and learning, or simply paying for a pat on the head?

    Fourth, they're main objective at the moment is to launch the class, and they can't do that without x number of students. This is really part and parcel with the third, being that neither of them are art or education motivated.

    I'm sure there are other possibilities, but I'm sure you get my point. You feel you aren't prepared for this class. You feel you need more preparation. Unless you trust these people enough to believe the first option (which I don't think you do or you wouldn't be asking about it on the interweb), I think it's pretty clear that taking the class probably isn't going to be in your best interest or to your benefit. I'd suggesting investing the money for the class in some challenging, skill-appropriate private lessons, some good resources, etc. I feel like they're trying to pressure you into the class -- it'll be cheaper now than in the future, it won't be offered again for years, don't worry you'll do fine. Little girl, little girl, help me find my puppy.

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    Yes, I agree with you, but there are thinks that I think are great in this school,
    and It's not a "normal" school, they have this courses because they need good professionals to work in their companies (that's what they said to me).
    For example: you are at school and it's similar to working in a company, because you have the work schedule of 8 hours per day and you work with real projects, and have timing's to finish them similar to the timing's you will have when really working for a company.
    They try to give you the knowledge you need to make it as a professional (or so they say).

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