This is a trade with someone else, I cannot let him down

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  1. #1
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    This is a trade with someone else, I cannot let him down

    hi, I'm new into this place and by no means a pro, I just happen to like to draw, some guy in second life asked me to put a new spin on his character thus making it the wolf centaur you see there, I'll proceed it to shading it if none finds a major defect (which I doubt)

    and I also have been going thought a bad crops period meaning that I'm very eager to draw but nothing is good enough.

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  3. #2
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    Unfortunately there are some major anatomy issues here. My first suggestion would be brushing up on the basics of drawing. A good book for that is andrew loomis' "fun with a pencil" which you can get here

    But since it sounds like you really want to finish this soon I suggest looking at pictures of humans, wolves and horses for reference to guide you in construction. Don't try to copy them mind you, just pay attention to the important shapes involved in each.

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  4. #3
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    I will have to tell you that, I'm very sorry to say, pretty much the entire drawing is a major defect in all possible areas. However, and I'm sure that this will also remedy your art block, you can fix it all quite easily by just doing some studies. Studies that will sure enough take time but they will pay off tremendously in the end.

    Seeing as this is a humanoid-wolf/horse hybrid, I would suggest you look up skeletons of horses, wolves and people, observe them, copy them and when you have gathered enough knowledge of them, try to combine them to make the creature you're going for. Your drawing is lacking in the very fundamentals. All of the basics are there and the limbs connect in the right places, but I doubt that you know how the leg and body of a horse (or human for that matter) are built up on the inside. To make your picture more convincing and generally appealing, it is rather vital that you learn this. You don't start with the outer shell, you start with the basic structure and then flesh it out.

    Regardless I do take it you're looking to finish this piece, so I suppose my advise is more for future reference. I did draw you a redline to maybe help you out a bit. Do note however that the legs in my redline are a tad too long (or otherwise disproportioned). I had to rush it a bit.

    This is a trade with someone else, I cannot let him down

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  6. #4
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    I knew I was bad... and thank you for the correction. Lhune, that is the kind of human-to-horse junction I wanted to achieve I'll put it on my files.

    I still feel embarrassed for showing up here :/

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    Since you seem largely interested in the anthro side of things, I'd add a good animal drawing book or two along with the Loomis that Wooden Mango suggested. I'm especially fond of The Art Of Animal Drawing by Ken Hultgren, but others may have their own recommendations.

    The things you really need to learn the most are:


    • Drawing three-dimensionally (that is, creating solid volumes rather than flat shapes on a flat page)
    • Construction (such as what Lhune did, working from general interior shapes first and developing the image from that)
    • Perspective (how to ground the feet so it looks like the figure is standing on something, whether you can see the top or bottom of body structures, etc.)
    • Anatomy (both human and animal)


    As others have recognized, this all takes a long time so it probably won't help this piece much, but if you're serious about getting better it's more than worth it. And then you'll have the satisfaction of seeing future pieces get better and better.

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  8. #6
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    what's the best way to start practicing I read all the stuff and I feel overwhelmed by it.

    does being a chemistry student helps?

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    It is a bit overwhelming, isn't it? Drawing, let alone painting, is a much bigger thing than a lot of people expect.

    Getting started is pretty straightforward though, you take the same approach as drawing itself. Simplify, and build from there. In your case, I'd say start with the basics, learning to work with basic volumes (not shapes) and drawing loosely, with confidence.

    Here are some links to stuff you can use to get started:

    Karmatoons (aimed at animators, but the solid drawing skills are the same)
    Preston Blair, that one's a gold mine in itself
    Simplified anatomy
    How to hold a pencil
    Perspective 101

    That should be more than enough to get a good solid start. Otherwise, draw real things as much as you can (stuff on your desk, stuffed animals, people, pets, etc.) and just plain draw a lot. Preferably on real paper with a pencil. Keep at it, and you'll definitely get better.

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  10. #8
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    here, something I amassed so far I used to be better thaI am now, it seems that without guidance I get rusted

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    Not a bad start, given where you're at. One thing, try to avoid that straight-up-and-down thing you've got going on in the left. I'm not 100% sure you want the lower anatomy to be horse, but since it's got hooves I'll run with that. So looking up skeletal anatomy of the critter in question I get this image. Note how the bones themselves have a bit of a curve, as does the muscle over it. You want to shoot for that when you can.

    As a general rule of thumb, curved lines of action (see that Preston Blair link I gave you for more on that) are way more dynamic than straight. You want to think in C's and S's, rather than I's.

    Also think about how that skeleton is put together. The leg bones join about a quarter of the way down the ribcage, so the leg can support that big mass like a pillar supporting a building. A slightly springy pillar, mind, so there's some shock absorption going on. The back legs are the power, so you've not only got those really strong muscles back near the rump, but the bones are sturdier than the front to handle pushing out all that force.

    It's all got a reason, and the better you understand it, the better you'll be able to put it together in your art, or adapt it to fit your needs. For instance, look at that strong shoulder bone on the horse. Why, that could double as the pelvis for the upper half, how handy! Remember that the pelvis and ribcage on a human are tilted in opposite directions on a human. That's the sort of thing you're keeping an eye on at this stage.

    Keep at it!

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  12. #10
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    well I agree with you, about the stiffness of this particular figure, I never tried to make it fluid I want to pose like it was a ref sheet just to show my new frame for my centauroids different to the old one which was just a bunch of sticks.

    one I pull that one off properly I will start making it more dynamic, such as running, walking or being uppercutted,

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    Apart from the great anatomy advice all ready mentioned, when you do get to the painting stage I would use a background that is not white. Right now half of the creature just melds into the Background making it hard to see the full anatomy.

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    here, I gave the whole assembly some movement, and placed it in a 2 point perspective, it was a small foil so I had no idea where the vanishing points are exactly

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    Hey, that's pretty good! It's a huge improvement over what you were doing since you're now building the character out of simple shapes and putting him in a space. You don't need vanishing points for that though. Ideally you want to learn how to draw a perfect box in perspective, freehand without vanishing points, and apply that knowledge to the box forms of his rib cage, pelvis, and head.

    Also draw the nude figure from reference every day.

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  16. #14
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    thanks, I spoke with the receiver of the trade, and he agreed on waiting for more with the promise of delivering something better.

    I posted some old drawing (don't hiss at it much) so you can see what kind of fur treatment is going to get

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  17. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nezumi Works View Post

    Karmatoons (aimed at animators, but the solid drawing skills are the same)

    This is completely a tangent, but the main man behind Karmatoons, Doug Compton was my animation teacher this year!

    Back to the topic somwehat... There are great lessons to be learned in constructive drawing from animation lessons... whether you're working on the actual art of hand animation or just learning to squash, stretch and otherwise warp "3D" objects and give them more fluidity.

    @Smvuy: When you draw, try to draw with a lot of follow through. I'm seeing evidence of 'hairy lines' which tells me you are hesitant to make the marks. Draw long, sweeping lines through the point you think they should end. They can always be cleaned up later, but for studies sometimes it's nice to keep them there so you can retrace your steps. Keep things loose - draw with your shoulder or elbow as a pivot instead of the wrist.

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  18. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pezzle View Post
    This is completely a tangent, but the main man behind Karmatoons, Doug Compton was my animation teacher this year!
    Ooh, lucky you. I've got Derek Bond, who's no slouch as a teacher either.

    Back to the topic somwehat... There are great lessons to be learned in constructive drawing from animation lessons... whether you're working on the actual art of hand animation or just learning to squash, stretch and otherwise warp "3D" objects and give them more fluidity.
    Actually, animation lessons are a very good choice for learning construction. To the original poster, if you can afford it I'd recommend picking up a copy of Draw the Looney Tunes by Dan Romanelli. It's full of good information about design, building from shapes, gesture and how to use reference, among other things. Again, not necessarily for this piece, but for ongoing improvement.

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  20. #17
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    Ok, I will try to be softer with my pencil, I'm too much of a precision nut, and I always leave uneraseable marks on the paper, nobody could take that away from me.

    I hate my bad capacity of fine coordination, something i have for as long i can remember.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smvuy View Post
    Ok, I will try to be softer with my pencil, I'm too much of a precision nut, and I always leave uneraseable marks on the paper, nobody could take that away from me.

    I hate my bad capacity of fine coordination, something i have for as long i can remember.
    I've heard of this cake theory people use, which is basically one of those traditional western cake design. It starts off with a giant cake on the bottom, a medium cake, a small cake, and then little frills on the top. It means the best results start from a big design with no details, and once everything is set in place, then you put in the fine details.

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    Well, this is where you get permission to be loose (not the same as messy, there's purpose here). It's a quality you want in your work, especially at the posing stage like this. This is more or less the level of looseness you'd want to shoot for, but note that even though it the first rough is very "scribbly", it's all done with purpose, which is then refined.

    Now it does take practice to get to that stage. It's like that when you learn new skills, there's a period where you're fairly stiff as you figure it out, and eventually it becomes second nature and you do it unconsciously. So don't be discouraged if you can't get to this point right away and your initial efforts seem messy. It's part of the process, nothing to worry about.

    Abandon polish and detail for a bit, go for life and energy, which is what drawing from the shoulder encourages.

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  23. #20
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    so far, pretty much at the same stage I was when I got here.
    I hope you don't see me as weirdo for drawing this stuff

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    Look, some things that helped me always where:
    1. Flip the picture (just mirror it in photoshop or whatever youre using) so you get a new perspective on your drawing and are more open to see the issues you've been rnning into while drawing.

    2. When drawing any body, never draw lines if you start feeling uncomfortable with the lenght of the stroke. Try making strokes not long and straight at the same time, better make them curved.

    Having a skeleton is not guaranteeing you the whole body, you need to think about how the muscles and skin are forming on that skeleton.
    Also, the mistakes was there in the skeleton already - the body of the horse-part is too long in consideration of the perspective. Also you should make him stand on one of the backfeets imho, so it reads better as being further away instead of being sloped. To have this read better for the viewer, you need more detail, which you will be adding through more lines, based on the understanding of how the muscles look on a horse.

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  25. #22
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    OK, I'll see if i can defeat that.

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    I was told there was nudity

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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  28. #24
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    do you see any clothes?

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    no but there are no boobs or penii, not that i personally want eitehr on an animal. But you really dont seem to have taken any of the critic here or tried actuvely to improve the image. You are still ignoring anatomy of humans and animals in favor of "your style" and i dont mean to be rude, but furry or not you are going to lean more towards one set of anatomy or the other. If you are mixing this heavily, you will need to research the muscle groups of both horses, humans, and foxes to see how you could properly link everything in an effective and believable manner. There is no excuse, after all the redlines, and critics for you to have not made any real improvement. 2 point perspective means almost nothing when you only have a single figure on a single color plane. The anatomy is still extremely weak. and alot of the painting looks lazy at best. If you dont want to let your friend down this is not the way to start. I would suggest, again, studying the anatomies, designing them in a cohesive way, then think about the pose, composition, etc.

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  31. #26
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    I'm wondering why you chose to put the head just underneath the horizon. Why are we looking down on him? It makes him look small and unimportant. Considering that he's a taur, and we're human, I would expect him to be taller than us. Putting more thought into your composition might really help make the picture more interesting as well.

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    the idea was just the guy and a color background, as I'm getting the same, and yes, it wasn't intentional, but the receiver didn't mind, he's 8 heads tall such as a human
    by the way I uploaded some shading

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    hes 8 heads tall, so what. Nothing else in the anatomy is accurate. the values are terrible, the background color you chose is disgusting and off putting, and your attitude towards critic is piss poor. You are essentially spitting on those who have taken time to try and help by doing two things; being argumentative or correctionary(made that word up), and by all but ignoring the critic. Whatever, your image, your reputation. Its a shame that you wouldnt take the extra hour to make this a half decent attempt.

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    What sort of software and tools are you using? Everything is totally flat and super sharp and it is killing your piece. You should be using your drawing more. You were getting somewhere with the drawing but now you painted over and destroyed it. Use those 3d solids to figure out your shading. You really need to work out the horse anatomy. And I don't mean spend a year studying the muscles, for now just look at a picture of a horse and get the right joints in the right spots bending in the right directions.

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