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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoat View Post
    Nope. I've just skimmed the whole thread, and I don't see anybody being judgmental about pornography, let alone calling it, in the abstract, bad. I think you must be continuing a conversation we weren't having, Lhune.

    Though as an example of type, this one is more anatomical than seductive.
    Oh this wasn't really directed to you in particular, sorry. It was more in response to BaiFan and StrikeCommando's comments.

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  2. #32
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    I like this image better, now that I've decided it looks like she's ripping a really huge fart.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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  4. #33
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    Yeah, worst thing about the pose itself isn't so much that it's in-your-face porn, is that it's ridiculous. It's the most bizarre, awkward way for a person to stand, so it's hard to take seriously.

    It's also hard to get a good gesture out of it, since is is so awkward.

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    ok, now that I have the reference, I see that the nose and mouth need more work if you're looking to match. Your version has a very smooth nose and her's has defined depth, and the mouth on yours seems to full and is closed, while her lips are more thin and teeth appear to be showing.

    And her butt in yours is severely "enhanced" The model's butt seems to be more shallow, and the crack begins much lower.

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    Also, her nose bridge seems more flat while yours is more concave...

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    As I emphasized to strike in a PM, we are talking about the subject matter of the piece, and not the art behind it. The subject matter is taking away potential comments on the technique of the art, and that is not good here.

    I believe that there is nothing wrong with nudity, and as a guy I like vaginas very much, but this forum is about growing as an artist. This is the critique center and debates about right and wrong really do not belong here. There are forums for that.

    My comment before was about the choice of material in terms of study. Drawing from a photo is not ideal, but can teach you quite a bit. For instance, OP, you are drawing what you think you see and not what you see.

    If you look at the shadows on the girl's face, they are completely different than the reference. Her torso is much shorter and wider than the reference model's and the musculature is completely off. If you are going to use this as an anatomy study, try to get some anatomy in there. Avoid laziness like the rounded, non-descript calf and figure out the nuances of the angles that the muscles produce. That is an incredibly hard thing to do that I tend to struggle with from time to time, and working at that will help you become a better artist.

    As a side note to strike, yes... since this site is called conceptart.org... CONCEPT ART.org (get it?) I do believe that monster concept would be taken more seriously than trying to draw porn from net images, but that might just be me.



    To the OP, finding a figure drawing session in your area will help you much more than trying to copy net images. Draw from life as much as you can, and work on drawing what you see and not what you think you should see.

    Last edited by Bai Fan; May 18th, 2011 at 08:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bai Fan View Post
    As a side note to strike, yes... since this site is called conceptart.org... CONCEPT ART.org (get it?) I do believe that monster concept would be taken more seriously than trying to draw porn from net images, but that might just be me.


    It's not just you...which I find to be the most disheartening thing...but I explained that in my previous post and more throughly in my PM reply.

    I don't see why a unnatural gore-laden monster image is more acceptible than a naked woman showing her natural body parts...but then again, I guess I'm not your average run of the mill user/artist.

    Taste is taste. Maybe I don't see any benefit from your carved flesh piece. Although I actually do, because I don't discern between what's disturbing and arousing when it comes to art...but I'm trying to make a point. Personal values have no place in critiquing art, if you ask me.

    I also find it a bit hyprocritical to pass judgement on "porn" on a site that has childish stock emoticons such as these:



    :p

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    Ug. Again.

    I hope that my PM will end this nonsense. You however seem to not be able to get it through your head that people weren't passing judgement on porn. This section is not about arguing about the validity of artistic subject matter. Go to general topics for that. This section is about learning to grow as an artist. My comment was directed to the OP sharing that if he/she wants to avoid stupid arguments like this bogging down his thread, avoiding porn might be the way to go.

    A girl in a bikini, or reference of a figure model not spreading her lips for the camera would show all the anatomy needed for study while sparing the more sensitive viewers the distraction. Drawing from porn makes it about the porn and not about the art.

    These comments are not helping the OP grow as an artist, learn about lighting, anatomy or technique and bog down the thread making it harder for the poster to get the information that he/she was looking for.

    This is going to be the end of it. Only constructive critiques about the poster's piece from here on out please. If you would like to continue this conversation, please start a thread in the General Topics section.

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  11. #39
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    Liking a picture just because it has a vagina in it shows just as much immaturity and lack of aesthetic judgment as hating a picture just because it has a vagina in it.


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    Wow, this thread is one big passive aggresive flame war ( no offense to anyone {get it?})

    I am very different from a lot of the elders here, and though i respect their opinions and see that on 90% of their comments they are 100% correct. I firmly believe there is something to be said for different ways of understanding things , AND different ways of making art. I was taught by artists with just as much experience and sometimes more whose way of working vastly differs from Ellwell or jeff's. I also have a different way of understanding things. some learn from reading a text and saying "oh ok that must be the fact" others(like me) learn by saying " Ok, i believe you but i need to dissect this to see why you are right." a mechanic will eventually need to take apart an engine and surgeon will eventually need to cut someone open. Art is NOT an exact science, its trial and error, its an experience, its a methodology.

    That said, Ellwell is completely right on the reference photo, it does have bad lighting and it is awkward. But that doesnt make it a completely unusable image. there is merit in working through this to figure out the faults so you can fully understand them. There is also merit in taking this "bad" reference and making it interesting. If duchamp could sign a urinal and have people raging and fawning for the past 30 years, i have a feeling that someone could do something with this, and why not you. An illustrator worth his salt could, and frankly should. Id personally challenge any of the more famous guys on here to try and make something using that pose/angle.

    Further more, too many fall into the trap of "cloning" reference. Or making an exact duplicate of it, which is cool and awesome. but the idea of reference is to understand what it is you are referencing and be able to build on that or change it accurately. Concerning this picture you now have drawn this pose and realize its awkward, but next time you need to draw a woman's back it will be that much easier, next time you need to draw arms at that angle "boom" done(winning).

    I hope this is helpful or uplifting to you. Elwell and the guys are 100% correct in their critics, and you should respect that and head their advice. But never be too eager to walk in their footsteps without exploring your own way.

    Now, go draw some fruit points if you give them vaginas.

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  14. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullitbikini View Post
    That said, Ellwell is completely right on the reference photo, it does have bad lighting and it is awkward. But that doesnt make it a completely unusable image. there is merit in working through this to figure out the faults so you can fully understand them. There is also merit in taking this "bad" reference and making it interesting. If duchamp could sign a urinal and have people raging and fawning for the past 30 years, i have a feeling that someone could do something with this, and why not you.
    I would agree with you, if it weren't for:
    Quote Originally Posted by 81Locus View Post
    This is my first attempt at making a painting from a reference.
    So, that would be why not.


    Quote Originally Posted by bullitbikini View Post
    Now, go draw some fruit points if you give them vaginas.
    It's been done.


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    Elwell was too quick I thought the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by bullitbikini View Post
    That said, Ellwell is completely right on the reference photo, it does have bad lighting and it is awkward. But that doesnt make it a completely unusable image.
    Indeed.
    But we can choose from a wide variety of great photos and masters's paintings and sculptures, those would be more useful...

    But never be too eager to walk in their footsteps without exploring your own way.
    I kind of agree with this... I even wonder sometimes if beginners simply should do certain beginner mistakes to fully understand they are wrong...

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    Again, either comment on how the artist can get improve the piece or his technique or don't comment at all and let the thread die.

    Drawing from porn as a discussion should be in General Forums > Art Discussions.

    OP: Are you going to be posting updates to the piece?

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  17. #44
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    Who made you Hall Monitor?

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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  19. #45
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    I'm pretty sure the only thing the OP is learning here, is who on ConceptArt likes or dislikes the reference picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoat View Post
    Who made you Hall Monitor?
    Conceptart did. I am a moderator for this forum. As is Elwell.

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