The Netherlands - Page 45

Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop
Page 45 of 46 FirstFirst ... 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 LastLast
Results 1,321 to 1,350 of 1365

Thread: The Netherlands

  1. #1321
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,390
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 462 Times in 327 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ashess View Post
    I'm from an animation background myself- living in Amsterdam. I cannot speak for the concept art industry, but there is definitely a problem in tv and film. Offers for 3-minutes animations I have had (from professionals) usually are about 150-250 euro. This is for doing a whole project, adding sound and everything.
    As a rule of thumb, animation costs $10.000 per minute. Yes, you can cut corners, but you're basically selling yourself for 1% of the going rate, and as long as naive students are working for this, there will be clients who will use them, and things will never change.

    Grinnikend door het leven...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. The Following User Says Thank You to eezacque For This Useful Post:


  4. #1322
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    amsterdam
    Posts
    3,089
    Thanks
    568
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 824 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    @ezaacque -
    I know. problem is, what to do about it. especially as refusing to work this way jeopardizes your chances of graduation. no; actually, you cannot even pass the second year right now if you refuse to work for nothing. there is no union for animators. not in the Netherlands.
    its little wonder that when I asked professionals how to make it in the business, the first thing they've all told me is 'leave the country'.
    I have 2 young children and a husband with an actual paying job, so that's not really an option.

    Last edited by ashess; April 28th, 2014 at 11:01 AM.
    >>SKETCHBOOK. you'll visit me. I'll visit you, we'll have a tea party. with arts and shit. it'll be dreamy. stop by.
    >>mah tumbr
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. #1323
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    In my own thoughts.
    Posts
    1,345
    Thanks
    433
    Thanked 551 Times in 248 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    If you don't mind the Belgian chiming in, since my subforum is even more dead.
    The problem with going abroad is the visa+you'll be competing against artcenter/FZD graduates.
    I thought the situation was less bad in Netherland due to Killzone being made there, but I take it that's not the case.

    So yeah, I don't really get people who go into game design programs right now.
    They're teaching worse programming than an ICT program and they're teaching literally no useful drawing skills as far as I can see.
    So an atelier or a course in programming are both more useful since they allow for more options to find work. Hell, even a course in business will help you more to start your own indie studio than a game design program. Now I haven't seen all the art educations in Western Europe, but I'm going to bet that not one of them even teaches constructive idealism. Mostly just naturalism with some vilppu/bammes/.. thrown in for good measure. Which is not that useful in 3D modelling and won't let you outperform someone who went to Asia or Russia for their education. Zhang Lu(of the female portrait) being a prime example of the difference in quality.

    And as for those who think the forum is dead, we went from 400/1K people online to 20 at the time of posting. Facebook is now mostly about self promotion, so no real sense of community either.
    It's one thing to try and train the competition, but if even the top has trouble staying in business these days, training the opposition becomes detrimental for the person sharing stuff.

    So yeah, until the world economy makes a full recovery, it'll be difficult to get this type of community going again. As it's detrimental for the best to share and not a good investment of time for the fledgling artists.

    Last edited by Hyskoa; April 28th, 2014 at 11:21 AM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. #1324
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,390
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 462 Times in 327 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ashess View Post
    @eezacque -
    I know. problem is, what to do about it.
    Good question. Despite all the ballyhoo about Academy Awards for The Life of Pi and Father and Daughter, and the history of the Toonder Studios and Dollywood, The Netherlands have never had an animation tradition. Internationally, studios are hard-pressed to do more for less, which means that work gets outsourced. As a result, I do not see an animation industry developing successfully. One way to make a career out of animation is to start teaching, telling young people how wonderful animation is

    its little wonder that when I asked professionals how to make it in the business, the first thing they've all told me is 'leave the country'.
    Generally a good idea, but in North America they are not really waiting to hire international candidates because of strict visa regulations, and in a good part of the world people are animating for a salary that is not going to pay your bills. That leaves France, Germany, Great Brittain and Ireland, and in some of these countries people talk funny, while in the others they act funny.

    I have 2 young children and a husband with an actual paying job, so that's not really an option.
    YIKES!

    Grinnikend door het leven...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  7. #1325
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,390
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 462 Times in 327 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyskoa View Post
    If you don't mind the Belgian chiming in, since my subforum is even more dead.
    The problem with going abroad is the visa+you'll be competing against artcenter/FZD graduates.
    It is even worse: even if you manage to graduate from a decent school, they will only hire you if you are better than anyone else, which is not very likely. I graduated in Toronto, found studios interested in hiring me, but that never happened, because of the visa hassle.

    Grinnikend door het leven...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  8. #1326
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    In my own thoughts.
    Posts
    1,345
    Thanks
    433
    Thanked 551 Times in 248 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Zal wa Nederlands praten zodat de convo wat meer privé blijft.
    Ge hebt twee opties in dat geval. Ofwel ga je naar een van die ateliers voor een 3-5 tal jaar en probeer je te verbeteren zodat je beter bent dan de competitie. Ga je wel in directe competitie met FDZ graduaten die deftige opleiding kregen sinds de leeftijd van 12. Geloof mij, die 3-5 jaar zal 12-14 uur werken per dag zijn voor dat niveau te halen.
    Ofwel een visa nu aanvragen en een andere job doen voor een aantal jaar tot de visa doorgaat op de natuurlijke wijze. Maar dan is men nog niet zeker dat met deze economie, de jobs allemaal in Canada blijven. Als die subsidies opdrogen, gaan die bedrijven weg. 100% zeker van.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  9. #1327
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,390
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 462 Times in 327 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyskoa View Post
    Ofwel een visa nu aanvragen en een andere job doen voor een aantal jaar tot de visa doorgaat op de natuurlijke wijze. Maar dan is men nog niet zeker dat met deze economie, de jobs allemaal in Canada blijven. Als die subsidies opdrogen, gaan die bedrijven weg. 100% zeker van.
    Dat gaat zo niet werken: voor permanent residence kom je als kunstenaar niet in aanmerking, en voor een tijdelijk visum heb je eerst een baan nodig.

    Grinnikend door het leven...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  10. #1328
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    In my own thoughts.
    Posts
    1,345
    Thanks
    433
    Thanked 551 Times in 248 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Ge kunt geen permanente residentie aanvragen als gewone burger?
    Duurt een 8 tal jaar dacht ik, maar zal nog altijd de beste optie zijn, nee?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  11. #1329
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,390
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 462 Times in 327 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyskoa View Post
    Ge kunt geen permanente residentie aanvragen als gewone burger?
    Duurt een 8 tal jaar dacht ik, maar zal nog altijd de beste optie zijn, nee?
    Nee, dat kan dus niet. Je kunt PR alleen aanvragen als je een beroep uitoefent waar een tekort aan is, en om kunstenaars zitten ze niet echt te springen.

    Grinnikend door het leven...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  12. #1330
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    130
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 20 Times in 18 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Hey, didn't realize there was an actual dedicated dutch thread. Nice!
    For people living in or near Amsterdam and looking for a cheap place to do live drawing, Mezrab offers sessions on monday from 19:30 to 22:00 for 5 euros. I go whenever I can. There won't be one the 5th of may, but I expect it'll continue the week after again.

    http://www.mezrab.nl/

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  13. #1331
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    92
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by eezacque@xs4all.nl View Post
    I am not sure whether it is cause or consequence: ....companies ...are hiring skills only when they need them, as cheaply as possible. As a result, in many areas hard-boiled skills fail to develop, ... I am afraid it is not just an issue with art...
    Yeah, may not only be art. It's a chicken and egg thing I suppose. There would be enough money if you ask me - the companies are not willing to go for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyskoa View Post
    I thought the situation was less bad in Netherland due to Killzone being made there, but I take it that's not the case.
    Well - it's about the only big studio here. And either way, I've seen them do the same. Suppose they just pick up the top talents that go through. In a way you can't blame them - they profit greatly from the subsidized education here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyskoa View Post
    So yeah, I don't really get people who go into game design programs right now.
    They're teaching worse programming than an ICT program and they're teaching literally no useful drawing skills as far as I can see.
    I sometimes give lectures at the NHL (Leeuwarden), so I don't know the very details, but it seems ok to me. Good on-hands projects. HKU students I know are generally satisfied and some come out with great skills.
    The problem is really more about: Why educate so many for an empty market?

    On game conventions here it often seems like a scam to me. Everyone is teaching. Everyone offers "the way to your dream job" in this way or the other. And then I see the best people work in Albert Heijn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyskoa View Post
    It's one thing to try and train the competition, but if even the top has trouble staying in business these days, training the opposition becomes detrimental for the person sharing stuff.
    You look at it too technical IMO. Art skills are not like a competitive sport or a checklist.
    Neither are there magical secrets you can keep for yourself. Everyone has just to find his right spot.

    The Netherlands are not a lost case just yet. The indie industry has some nice companies developing. There is lots of funding (in my eyes nearly too much).

    Quote Originally Posted by Schraverus View Post
    For people living in or near Amsterdam and looking for a cheap place to do live drawing, Mezrab offers sessions on monday from 19:30 to 22:00 for 5 euros. [/url]
    Nice, thanks. Never heard of it. I'll check it out.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  14. #1332
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,390
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 462 Times in 327 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Veil View Post
    The problem is really more about: Why educate so many for an empty market?
    Education is just another market, which provides jobs for teachers and keeps schools up and running. I have seen the same pattern in computer science and research: there are hardly any jobs, it is just schools.

    Grinnikend door het leven...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  15. #1333
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    amsterdam
    Posts
    3,089
    Thanks
    568
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 824 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Schraverus View Post
    Hey, didn't realize there was an actual dedicated dutch thread. Nice!
    For people living in or near Amsterdam and looking for a cheap place to do live drawing, Mezrab offers sessions on monday from 19:30 to 22:00 for 5 euros. I go whenever I can. There won't be one the 5th of may, but I expect it'll continue the week after again.

    http://www.mezrab.nl/
    oh wow. thats cheap!

    >>SKETCHBOOK. you'll visit me. I'll visit you, we'll have a tea party. with arts and shit. it'll be dreamy. stop by.
    >>mah tumbr
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  16. #1334
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts
    1,658
    Thanks
    1,891
    Thanked 1,649 Times in 676 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I've been at Mezrab two times now and it's a pretty good place to go figure drawing. Nice people, relaxed atmosphere. 8-10 or so people drawing the last two times.
    It's 5€ a session, which is the cheapest place I've seen so far. 19.30 to 22.00 P.M. No easels but you can bring whatever you need. They start with some quick poses (1min, 2min) and gradually increase the time (up to 20min).

    In my sketchbook I've uploaded the figures from last two weeks, if anyone is interested in seeing the type of poses. I'll be there again on Monday for sure!


    Join the SPARTAN CAMP under Community Activities
    50 Gestures and an Optional Study every week!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  17. #1335
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    amsterdam
    Posts
    3,089
    Thanks
    568
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 824 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Gonna see if i can make that

    >>SKETCHBOOK. you'll visit me. I'll visit you, we'll have a tea party. with arts and shit. it'll be dreamy. stop by.
    >>mah tumbr
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  18. #1336
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,710
    Thanks
    754
    Thanked 582 Times in 508 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Interessant, wel jammer dat het niet heel dichtbij is ^^; Maar ik zal het onthouden

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  19. #1337
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    amsterdam
    Posts
    3,089
    Thanks
    568
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 824 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Name:  _MG_7709.jpg
Views: 117
Size:  163.7 KB

    went. totally worth it and we need more people to keep this going!

    nice n central in Amsterdam; definitely gonna be there next week.

    >>SKETCHBOOK. you'll visit me. I'll visit you, we'll have a tea party. with arts and shit. it'll be dreamy. stop by.
    >>mah tumbr
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  20. #1338
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Valence
    Posts
    1
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    About decent drawing workshops/schools. The animation workshop in Denmark offers one. Glen Vilppu usually visits the school every year. http://www.animwork.dk/en/classical_drawing_courses.aspSeveral people I know did the course and really loved it! Apparently a student of Glen is running the course.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  21. #1339
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    amsterdam
    Posts
    3,089
    Thanks
    568
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 824 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    head up 4 ppl to come drawing tonight @ mezrab. I should be there ;P that alone should be incentive enough for y'all to travel the country!

    >>SKETCHBOOK. you'll visit me. I'll visit you, we'll have a tea party. with arts and shit. it'll be dreamy. stop by.
    >>mah tumbr
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  22. #1340
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    130
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 20 Times in 18 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Ha, I was there. Wonder who you were then .

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  23. #1341
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    amsterdam
    Posts
    3,089
    Thanks
    568
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 824 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Name:  _MG_7824.jpg
Views: 100
Size:  120.1 KB

    I was the woman who brought her own easel and did charcoal. behind the couch. the only one standing :p

    >>SKETCHBOOK. you'll visit me. I'll visit you, we'll have a tea party. with arts and shit. it'll be dreamy. stop by.
    >>mah tumbr
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  24. #1342
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    amsterdam
    Posts
    3,089
    Thanks
    568
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 824 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    damn, missed last week bc of a book (forgot the time), well, wasnt sure there would be any drawing bc of pinksteren/ anyway, who's going tonight?

    >>SKETCHBOOK. you'll visit me. I'll visit you, we'll have a tea party. with arts and shit. it'll be dreamy. stop by.
    >>mah tumbr
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  25. #1343
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts
    1,658
    Thanks
    1,891
    Thanked 1,649 Times in 676 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I'll be there.
    Also, isn't there a local art groups subforum anymore? This thread seems out of place in the lounge.


    Join the SPARTAN CAMP under Community Activities
    50 Gestures and an Optional Study every week!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  26. #1344
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Hallo hier een nieuwe Nederlander, ik heb me vandaag geregistreerd

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  27. #1345
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,390
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 462 Times in 327 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by BitComplex View Post
    Hallo hier een nieuwe Nederlander, ik heb me vandaag geregistreerd


    Grinnikend door het leven...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  28. #1346
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    hahaha hallo, alles goed?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  29. #1347
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    23
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Waar kom je vandaan?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  30. #1348
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    amsterdam
    Posts
    3,089
    Thanks
    568
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 824 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    welkom mensen!

    wie komt er model tekenen vanavond?

    (@mezrab, amsterdam, 19:30)

    >>SKETCHBOOK. you'll visit me. I'll visit you, we'll have a tea party. with arts and shit. it'll be dreamy. stop by.
    >>mah tumbr
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  31. #1349
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts
    1,658
    Thanks
    1,891
    Thanked 1,649 Times in 676 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I won't be there! Soccer!


    Join the SPARTAN CAMP under Community Activities
    50 Gestures and an Optional Study every week!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  32. #1350
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    amsterdam
    Posts
    3,089
    Thanks
    568
    Thanked 1,046 Times in 824 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    0
    0
    soccer smoccer.

    you missed some good drawing Bas!


    Name:  2306201419.jpg
Views: 45
Size:  160.0 KB

    >>SKETCHBOOK. you'll visit me. I'll visit you, we'll have a tea party. with arts and shit. it'll be dreamy. stop by.
    >>mah tumbr
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

Page 45 of 46 FirstFirst ... 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 LastLast
  • 424,149 Artists
  • 3,599,276 Artist Posts
  • 32,941 Sketchbooks
  • 54 New Art Jobs
Art Workshop Discount Inside
Register

Developed Actively by vBSocial.com
The Art Department
SpringOfSea's Sketchbook