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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThabisoMhlaba View Post

    * * *

    Physical self defense is sometimes substantiated by verbal provocation. . .
    A dubious assertion.


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  3. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk View Post
    A dubious assertion.
    Its definitely considered when someone is tried for assault, sometimes people get acquitted or a sentence heavily reduced. I don't have any actual knowledge of this, I'm only saying what my dad tells me and he's been a lawyer for over 35 years so I trust his knowledge on the matter.

  4. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThabisoMhlaba View Post
    Its definitely considered when someone is tried for assault, sometimes people get acquitted or a sentence heavily reduced. I don't have any actual knowledge of this, I'm only saying what my dad tells me and he's been a lawyer for over 35 years so I trust his knowledge on the matter.
    I think you may be misunderstanding what he's told you. Mitigation of sentences involves someone who's been CONVICTED. An acquittal would involve the prosecution merely failing to prove all the elements of assault.

    Self defense would involve the defendant acknowledging physically attacking the alleged "victim" but meeting HIS affirmative burden to prove justification of his actions under whatever doctrine of self defense exists in the jurisdiction.

    Generally, a citizen can only use the equivalent level of force needed to successfully defend himself.

    But, my knowledge of generic assault law comes from TV and the Interwebs and being a true crime junky. And my knowledge of the law of carryin' guns into bars in WA is pretty non-existent!
    Last edited by Kamber Parrk; April 13th, 2011 at 12:33 AM.

  5. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by velderia View Post
    I've heard so many stories of girls getting attacked out of nowhere in a bar and all of the other men standing by? Stockholm syndrome.
    You mean the "Bystander Effect"? Where people don't get involved to help someone in trouble? The Stockholm Syndrome relates to the paradoxical bond a victim feels for their kidnapper.

    Still confused though because your further statement indicates you approve of the "Bystander Effect"?
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  6. #230
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    From:

    http://www.washingtongunrights.com/

    FACTS ABOUT CARRYING A
    FIREARM IN WASHINGTON STATE


    * * *

    (5). Carrying concealed (with a CPL) or openly in establishments that serve alcohol is allowed in Washington, so long as it is not carried into an area designated as “no minors allowed” by the Washington Liquor Control Board. Refer to RCW 9.41.300 to view the complete list of prohibited places.

    * * *

    Well, hey, I guess you can carry guns in bars in WA, sort of. I'm guessing that means you can't sit down at the bar and start drinking while armed-- probably a good thing!

  7. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    You mean the "Bystander Effect"? Where people don't get involved to help someone in trouble? The Stockholm Syndrome relates to the paradoxical bond a victim feels for their kidnapper.

    Still confused though because your further statement indicates you approve of the "Bystander Effect"?
    I don't, and regardless it's a typical human response that can't really be controlled, at least not easily.

    I remember at a gas station this elderly woman tripped on the sidewalk and fell, scraping her arms and glasses and her head bumped into the glass door.
    The very first reaction is where people actually stood still, not knowing what to do, thinking someone else was going to do something else first. Even I stood still doing that, and I read about stockholm syndrome prior to that accident. That doesn't necessarily mean I approve of my actions.

    Eventually some people started doing something after a woman shouted behind me, "Why doesn't anyone go out and help her?!?" My mom went, attempting to open the wrong door in panic. Some other people slowly came forward and help. It took about 5 min for us to actually get to her and help her up.

    How many people does it take to unscrew a lightbulb? One, but if you have too many people, who goes first?

    And me and my mom were talking about it later, we both felt guilty because we felt like we should of done something better.


    ... Ugh, this thread. I'm drawn to it like a fly drawn to a lightbulb.

    Edit: Oh, and this isn't even necessarily a "We Can Do It!" type of thing. But that weird expectation that men should save women, especially smaller women, doesn't happen in real life. At least more often than not. If you want to save me, go ahead, but don't do it because of some supposed biological expectation.

    Edit2: And Jersey Shore fucking sucks: http://www.cracked.com/blog/jersey-s...ast-since-911/
    Last edited by velderia; April 13th, 2011 at 03:33 AM.

  8. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwarrior View Post
    pffft, without these kinds of threads, all there is left is the cheer me up. (also its ironic that you're giving a criticism right now)
    Yes, that is true...

    It wasn't a criticism but an observation.

  9. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by velderia View Post
    I don't, and regardless it's a typical human response that can't really be controlled, at least not easily.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

    Just wanted to clear that up.

    I agree that these things are difficult to control - probably due to very primitive, deeply buried survival instincts themselves. But the individual can overcome that and act.

    Quote Originally Posted by velderia View Post
    Edit: Oh, and this isn't even necessarily a "We Can Do It!" type of thing. But that weird expectation that men should save women, especially smaller women, doesn't happen in real life. At least more often than not. If you want to save me, go ahead, but don't do it because of some supposed biological expectation.
    Weird expectation? You mean the one built up over the seven million years of hominid evolution? The same one which can be seen when a Bull Elk protects his cows? Or a female elephant protects her young from lions? It is the same instinct...not some weird expectation.

    Happens in real life all the time, everywhere, with all sorts of animals. The strong protect the weak (unfortunately the strong also prey on the weak - if they can get away with it - until one stronger takes them out). Does this give the alphas some breeding advantages? Yes. Nature is like that.

    It isn't done because of some supposed biological expectation...I would protect a young child, a smaller adult, an elderly person the exact same way.

    I hope that makes it a little more clear?
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  11. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotime View Post
    Oh my. I really wasn't expecting to read something like this from the OP. I really wasn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vermis View Post

    Really? I expected it before I saw who the OP was.
    To be perfectly honest.. I kinda expect nothing less from the OP. In fact when I saw the title I immediately thought 'Ah, a Naomi thread!'


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  12. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by velderia View Post
    I read about stockholm syndrome prior to that accident.
    I hate to be nit-picking, but it's an important difference. Again.. it's the "Bystander effect". Not Stockholm syndrome... Think of it this way. Bystanders are passive whilst kidnappers in Stockholm are hot. It's probably not acurate, but I bet its easier to remember the difference this way.

    I'm the complete opposite though.. If I see someone fall. I will rush over to see if that person needs help. Probably because I would not expect anyone else to do so.. But I did once see a similar episode. An elderly woman fell on a loose tile. 4 people rushed to help her up and one went in the store and seemed angry as he talked to the personel. It's probably a rare thing, but it does happen.
    If my friend is attacked at a bar I WOULD bite back, despite the agressor being huge, and although I don't personally expect much of people. I do expect my friends would do the same for me. Even my male friends.
    Last edited by Lady Medusa; April 20th, 2011 at 03:11 AM. Reason: typo

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  14. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by damascus57 View Post
    To be perfectly honest.. I kinda expect nothing less from the OP. In fact when I saw the title I immediately thought 'Ah, a Naomi thread!'

    I actually don't know who you are, and this statement puzzles me. I spend most of my time at another forum where such topics would be met with a multitude of "Meh, interesting" or mild agreement or disagreement. We have manual registrations - signing up requires passing a psych/intelligence test with no questions - just a blank box of "tell us about yourself". People have been turned down for all kinds of weirdass reasons, but the forums themselves require no moderation at all - although occasionally some entertainment fodder is let in to heat the place up a bit. No opposition can be terribly boring.

    My initial post was pretty nondescript, at the most I expected some defense of the Lion King. I thought it was pretty ironic the letter had Snow White on it. The recipient of the letter gave up art and animation forever according to her family.




    Anyways the whole gender bias on protection bothers me. Women are very protective by nature, they have to be - they are troupe animals just like the others, and they carry the young. This is pretty much a given that they will be protective. *People* can and will help other *people* given a chance. It has little to do with sex, culture perhaps but not so in the US from my experience. Some men have bouts of solipsism - they like protecting females and being chivalrous, and automatically think females are the opposite - a receptive "lady" - sure - in China Yin and Yang are Feminine and Masculine, yet the third principle, Jen, the Man line is neither. *Man* is neither wholly masculine nor feminine, but a mixture of both. You can tend towards one end of the spectrum or another but it's still going to be a mix.


    The same one which can be seen when a Bull Elk protects his cows? Or a female elephant protects her young from lions? It is the same instinct...not some weird expectation.
    Elk don't live in cities with mass stores of nuclear bombs, computers and vast social structures involving mobile global communication networks.

    I've shot a female Elk...not sure where the Bull was but I could have shot him too. Anyways....crazy monkeys with guns are a totally different animal, with a completely different set of enviromental hazards.
    Last edited by Izi; April 20th, 2011 at 05:20 AM.
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  16. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineris View Post
    According to cladistics, which is starting (?) to gain popularity over Linnean taxonomy in biology, birds are dinosaurs. I swear that this makes them at least 200% more entertaining to watch.
    That was so funny, and so true It actually took me a few years to actually grok what Bakker was saying in The Dinosaur Heresies as it pertains to our modern world but once you realize this, and maybe see Jurassic Park - geese suddenly become horrifically creepy.

    Last I checked they were treating Dinosauria as its own class. It would make sense to group them in some way but even I have a hard time wrapping my head around Triceratops and Ostriches sharing close family lines. Although I do seem to remember Triceratops and being bird-hipped...
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  17. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naomi Ningishzidda View Post
    I spend most of my time at another forum where such topics would be met with a multitude of "Meh, interesting" or mild agreement or disagreement. We have manual registrations - signing up requires passing a psych/intelligence test with no questions - just a blank box of "tell us about yourself". People have been turned down for all kinds of weirdass reasons, but the forums themselves require no moderation at all - although occasionally some entertainment fodder is let in to heat the place up a bit. No opposition can be terribly boring.
    Translation:

    "I'm the Queen Breeze in my Kingdom of Wind. I have a great treehouse in the clouds, where I'm an upstanding and important member, where I'm powerful and intelligent and I sit in there wasting time and feeling important. We have absolute power to deny membership based on completely arbitrary criteria. What a rush! Ah to be an elitist at my own power game created out of thin air, and you should come try to join so I can get a thrill up my arse being in a position to judge you. We do transmutational yoga and eat alchemy sandwiches and ride flying unicorns of esoteric freudian solipsism while googling anthropology. Whee! We're brainy as brainy can be, up in our imaginary treehouse in the clouds... where we'll live forever, eleven years old and immortal, dominating the universe without ever leaving our pyjamas!"

    This has been a babelfish transliterational educational production.

    Signing off.
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  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naomi Ningishzidda View Post
    Hi all,
    I did some digging over coffee and found this remarkably well preserved letter copied and posted on Flickr.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/polaroi...5233/?edited=1


    I hope you all enjoy....
    If you dug further you'd see I already mentioned this letter years ago

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    If you dug further you'd see I already mentioned this letter years ago
    I highly doubt we were going to see posts easily from 2008. 2008 seems like yesterday but it's actually 3 years ago, and we have different people discussing the same thing.

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