Constructing the rib-cage from any angle

# Thread: Constructing the rib-cage from any angle

1. ## Constructing the rib-cage from any angle

Hi all,

I've been using the oval shape as a symbol and starting point when drawing the rib cage, but I realize that in many cases where the pose is foreshortened and the rib cage is tilting and foreshortened at the same time in some weird angle, it's nearly impossible to be able to visualize and accurately draw the form of the rib cage.

If the rib cage was a simple sphere, maybe it's not so bad. But the rib cage resembles an egg, and some websites say that if you can draw an egg in any angle, you can do the same with the rib cage. But I can't.
I'm sure some folks will agree with me.

In challenging poses of the rib cage, I draw an oval and then try to modify the oval accordingly, but it ends up looking weird,

I'm not sure if drawing from a real egg in any angle from life will help. It's like doing contour drawing of a real model 100 times and when asked to construct a human from your imagination, you can't do it.
To add to it, the rib cage isn't exactly egg shape; it's slightly compressed front and back!

So, my question is: how do you guys draw / construct a rib cage in any angle accurately (including extreme angles) based on a model's pose? Any tips or ideas or methods?

I'm searching if there's a mechanical / industrial-design method to draw the rib cage in any angle. Much like how Loomis uses construction to create the entire head. If there is, wow.......!!!!

I don't mean to say draw a super-realistic rib cage from any angle complete with all the ribs, but at least the drawn rib cage must have the right shape and proper divisions of the 2 sides of the thoraic arch and the correct shape of that hole for the neck.

* Attached is a pose with the rib cage in a challenging angle. It's slightly coming towards us and titled to the bottom-left.
I'm trying not to use boxes for rib cage construction because I can't "feel" the roundness of the form if I use boxes.

Thanks!
Xeon

2. Although constructing it from a box would be easier. Maybe draw a box in this perspective first and then draw your egg inside it, and go from there?

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4. I was gonna suggest the box myself. It's easier to get a sense of perspective and foreshortening with a box... as for drawing an ovoid inside a tilted box? That's... another problem.

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6. Originally Posted by Cachette
Although constructing it from a box would be easier. Maybe draw a box in this perspective first and then draw your egg inside it, and go from there?
Quoted for truth...

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8. Keep in mind that from the back the thorax is "flattish", that is, as the ribs extend out from the spinal column they are flat until about the level of the medial scapular borders, when they start curving around to the front, descending in the lateral view but finally swooping up to connect to the sternum.
Get the book "Albinus on Anatomy" if you don't have it yet. it's great for clearing up all kinds of anatomical intracacies!

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10. You need more toys!

If you want to learn to draw ribcages from any angle, go to the thing itself, or, at least, a good model:

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12. You can check out the thread below which covers a very similar topic.
Although you should be familiar with it since YOU started it.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=201638

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14. Originally Posted by Craig D
You can check out the thread below which covers a very similar topic.
Although you should be familiar with it since YOU started it.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=201638
That is a good thread. And, it includes a picture of my Bridgman toy-- oh, the memories. . .

I decapitated him to better study/draw head boxes. But, the toy will also teach you a lot about drawing "ribcage boxes" from any angle.

But, Hale's still the authority-- use the shape that works to solve the problem.

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16. Also, if you go to the Posemaniacs "Hands For Drawing" section, you'll find a polygonized torso that you can flip around in 3D space.

It's armless and legless, so it may be helpful in viewing the ribcage in different angles.

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18. I recommend that you check out Mentler's thread "Book of Bones". In there he showed me better then anyone how to understand the ribcage.

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20. Sculpting out the form doesn't hurt either. If you don't know the shape of it when you start, you'll know it by the end of it! Especially if you're a hard ass on yourself and demand it to be right. (Right usually involving either failed attempts that you brought to finish, countless hours of shaping/sanding/filling/shaping/sanding to make sure the form is right, and continuous checking against a diagram.)

I sculpted out the head, torso, and pelvic forms out of Super Sculpey to help with angles. They're all in the same scale, so if I wanted to, I could even slap an armature spine along these guys and make a little makeshift mannequin, like Kamber Park did.

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22. Originally Posted by Craig D
You can check out the thread below which covers a very similar topic.
Although you should be familiar with it since YOU started it.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=201638
He's the question guy.

Any question anyone could want to ask, he has. He's a CA treasure!

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24. Registered User Level 1 Gladiator: Andabatae
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The cylinder works well too. Edges really help for perspective sake.

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26. Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk
You need more toys!
If you want to learn to draw ribcages from any angle, go to the thing itself, or, at least, a good model:
LOL, yeah, I need more toys, but after buying Vilppu's interview DVD + printing of 3 of Loomis' books, I'm broke. LOL

Originally Posted by Craig D
You can check out the thread below which covers a very similar topic.
Although you should be familiar with it since YOU started it.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=201638
Yah, I've re-visited that thread before I posted, but that thread was mainly dealing with landmarks and ribcage boxes, not so much on drawing an ovoid, more realistic rib cage from challenging angles.

Originally Posted by OmenSpirits
He's the question guy.
Any question anyone could want to ask, he has. He's a CA treasure!
I take that as sarcasm and with a pinch of salt, Sir.
Think of it this way: my questions will benefit future generations of people who face the same exact problems and when they search on CA, wow! LOL I'm actually helping to make CA a more informative place. Indirectly, of course.

Anyway, thanks to Lord M's link to Mentler's sketchbook.
I plowed through a couple dozen pages of his SB, and I ended up realizing he's actually the modern day Da Vinci!

His Chinese-pigtail / French schoolgirl braid hairstyle looks even more badass than Marko's hairstyle!

I found this wonderful link from his SB:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...&postcount=682

Now, at least I've some method to start off with! In his method, he don't seem to adjust the distances between the divisions of the markings on the oval even when the rib cage is foreshortened, though. The Bone Doctor rulez!

27. Originally Posted by Xeon_OND
I take that as sarcasm and with a pinch of salt, Sir.
Think of it this way: my questions will benefit future generations of people who face the same exact problems and when they search on CA, wow! LOL I'm actually helping to make CA a more informative place. Indirectly, of course.
Um, nope!

So they post the same thread once. Then come back a few weeks to a month later... and ask the SAME question.

Sorry bud.

You're cool.

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29. Xeon
Actually posting one on boxes and landmarks and then one on ovals IS pretty much the same question. If you can box it you can draw an oval inside that box.

Follow Gorgonzolas and Kambers advice wth the models, draw them 300 to 400 times each, and you will probably answer your own question.
Thinking about it, and drawing it a few times may not work