Rider on a white horse- crit needed!
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Thread: Rider on a white horse- crit needed!

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    Rider on a white horse- crit needed!

    As much as I love my drawing teacher, he's decided to just sort of sit back and let me work this semester, which isn't helping when I reach a point where I know something's wrong but can't really work it out on my own.
    So, a super-harsh crit is really appreciated on this piece. I work better small, but he wants me to push the sizes... so I took the image and tried to fix it a bit in photoshop. I'll put up the original (sorry the photo's a little iffy, it's a large piece, probably about 42'x56'), my digital paint-over by itself, and a comparison. If anyone sees anything wrong with my paint-over or anything that I missed in it, please please please let me know.

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    In your paintover the back hooves are still too big, and that bump you see at the chest area is not muscle or bone inbetween the legs; it's the other shoulder. A horse's breastbone does not protrude like that.

    The human looks okay but she's going to fall off backwards. The reason for this is the lack of strain on the reigns, giving her nothing she can seemingly hold on to. I also think her body should be in shading much more, considering the fact that the horse is between her and the lightsource.

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    Lhune is right im afraid the horse anatomy is a little off and the rider need more contact on the reins or she is off out the back door!

    One trick used by horse archers in days of yore was to use small ponies or horses that they could control from the knees and lower leg yours is a bit big for that so think about adding some height to the saddle front and back like the dude has in the pic.
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    I know most mongols etc didnt use saddles but hey its art do what you want eh!

    I look forward to seeing the finished article its looking reasonably good so far

    A great kind hearted lumbering bullock



    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209918 = my Sketchbook
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    I think your rider is fine. Her weight is clearly in the back of the saddle, the other place that should be balancing her is her foot in the stirrup. Once you draw the stirrup leathers in and show how the foot is straining against them, that should add enough believability. I like the rider's position because you put her in the correct spot on the horse and the precarious (yet correct!) position adds a dynamic feel. She couldn't sit there long like that, but is definitely in a transition going along with the rearing motion of the horse.

    Your horse is nice- smaller hind hooves and less pointy shoulders will help. You did the stifle joints correctly, which is rare ;-) There is a problem with the head, though, as you show an open jaw at the teeth, yet the rest of the head from lips back is in a jaw-closed position. The mandible hinges above and behind the eye, think about that.

    Sorry to hear about the teacher. That seems to be an art teacher's style in general. Imagine if they taught mathematics like that. "Play with this calculator for a while and get a feel for it, then I'll come around and check on the trigonometry you have done in about an hour."

    It took me like three hours to finish the shading on your upper lip. It's probably the best drawing I've ever done.



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    Thanks for the input so far, guys. Won't get a chance to work on it more until later tonight, as I'm currently in my illustration class (haha, shame on me, I know, but my illustration prof loves CA so he considers this classwork!) but I'll definitely be keeping this all in mind until then.

    So, quick rundown of improvements to be made:
    -Smaller hind hooves
    -More tension on the reigns (thanks, J@n!t, but it's such an easy fix that I'd rather do it than get more comments about her falling backwards )
    -Do... something... with the chest. I need more refs, obviously, because the main one I was looking at was very similar to that. I'm not great on animal anatomy, so I was a little confused by that area.
    -Fix the mouth. I think the biggest problem with that right now is that I roughed it in pretty quickly, not paying much attention to detail.

    That sound about right?

    Anyway, I should have a quick paint-over update later tonight, with maybe an update on the full piece sometime tomorrow. Thanks again, guys!

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    It's not about details being off. It is about complete lack of awareness about space. Look at the picture closely: both of the horse's hind legs are cut out of the same piece of cardboard, and the rider levitates a few inches to the left of the horse's side.

    Basically, you are trying to assemble a 3-D scene from flat shapes, and not succeeding. You need to change the method. Instead of trying to add up flat lines on paper, imagine the whole thing as a 3-D object in space. Start with the biggest masses - just sketch the boxes at first, but make sure the boxes are at the right angles, in the right places and seen and in the right perspective.

    When your "rider box" sits on top of the "horse box", you'll have the solid base for going further.

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    Err, I'm sorry, but as I *did* actually create the shapes out of boxes and cylinders, I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Could you maybe elaborate?

    Also, whoops- fell asleep in my chair right after class last night. Must have been more tired than I thought. Now, to get to work
    Ah, just saw RyerOrdStar's post as well- that paint-over helps a TON. Thank you so, so much. (Funnily enough, all those images are pulled up in other tabs already- I just fully admit that I have very little anatomical knowledge of horses, so even with 25+ refs, I didn't really "get it". Probably wasn't the best subject for me to pick, but my teacher kind of pushed me towards it, so... what can you do?)

    Last edited by shuzuko; February 18th, 2011 at 10:23 AM.
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    I suggest you get better reference for the human and horse. From many different angles and just..more. yeah.

    Take a look at riders on rearing horses and what kind of things they need to do to stay on it (much more tension on the reins, tight thighs, I would even have her holding onto the mane instead). As you can see I had a lot of trouble myself getting this pose down, because you've chosen one of the hardest to do without exact reference. A 3 quarter rearing pose is very hard, especially for the hind legs. I'd take some photos of a person in that pose and draw it in perspective better, because right now she's falling off the back and not in the same plane as the horse.
    Hope that helps

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    Not personally studied horse anatomy yet but the previous hooves on the back legs seemed to be referenced from the middle right show horse in your reference shot. The hooves you've got probably look more accurate to what a warhorse would have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shuzuko View Post
    Err, I'm sorry, but as I *did* actually create the shapes out of boxes and cylinders, I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Could you maybe elaborate?
    Not really: I was talking just about building the rough form out of simple shapes.

    What you probably did wrong was to pay too little attention to perspective and spatial relationships. Just sketching out blobs and boxes is not enough; these are just the means, not the end. You use these to mark where the masses are in space; if you are just guessing (as you most likely were) instead of visualizing the three-dimensional space, you are doing it wrong.

    Forget that the paper is flat; in your mind, you must have a three-dimensional scene. All the lines you make on paper are just shorthand to help you construct that scene from a particular point of view.

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