Motivation for those afraid to post work: why we forget the importance of failure

**Ghast** · February 11th, 2011

This is my first post so I apologize in advance if I made a mistake

I was having a discussion with one of my professors yesterday concerning how I (as well as many MANY others) will get discouraged or intimidated when they see artwork that we deem to be far superior to our own. This site is known for the professional caliber of artwork, and there are many artists here who don't post anything for fear of it "not being good enough". I've seen about 10 sketchbooks that all started with "I finally decided to get the courage to post my work". I don't have anything up yet, and its partially for the same reason. But what my professor pointed out was that we only ever see the works an artist is proud enough of to allow the internet masses to see. What we DON'T see are the failures and sub par works they made to get where they are.

NO artist has made nothing but fantastic pieces of art from when they started to now. It's impossible. But we never see their failures do we? We just see page after page and thread after thread of amazing art, without considering what they made to get there. I think Michael Mattessi put it best: "The more results you make, the faster you will reach your destination" My professor pointed out a Van Gogh painting from his early years as an example and how it looked like "utter shit". Even the masters had to fail along the way.

So whats the point? Stop thinking that the art you see online is the ONLY art that people make. We will probably never see the older art that they've safely locked away from when they first cracked open Photoshop or first tried using a tablet. Don't be afraid to post your "failures" because they're not on par with the professionals on the site (they're pros for a reason remember?). Get your work up and get it critiqued then go back and fix whats wrong with it. The more you see what is wrong and the more you work towards fixing it, the faster you'll get to the level you want to be at. If you're posting here it means you want to improve. So why just creep around and waste time thinking you're work isn't good enough to post?

SketchBook: Work hard, Never forget to have fun! MisterBrown's Sketchbook
What do you do usually, when you lose motivation for some work?
Afraid to draw for fear of failure?
kinda afraid to post here, but whatever...
Art: kinda afraid to post here, but whatever...

**jouzinka** · February 11th, 2011

Should be carved in stone. I wish I read this a year and half ago.

**BGrizzMayne** · February 11th, 2011

Awesome post! I try to post most everything i do, not only to get feedback, but to get a digital record of how bad I suck. That way hopefully in a few months, I can look back and laugh.

**Toro-perallon** · February 11th, 2011

This is great and I'm very much guilty of this too. Your post just inspired me greatly. Thanks.

**Deadlyhazard** · February 11th, 2011

This is actually pretty sad. I've posted my horrible art on my sketchbook in the hopes of critiques, so I guess I haven't been afflicted by this yet. However, many students in my classes have. Last semester, when I took Drawing 1, I swear over the half the class didn't carry over to drawing 2 and I remember them saying their stuff sucked in comparison to everyone else (and that they didn't have talent).

So pretty much all of them became depressed and quit. It's really sad when someone who has potential gives up

. I can say for sure I'm intimidated by other people's art, but that doesn't make me not want to post my bad stuff so I can one day get up to their level. I think beginners and intermediate folk need to have this pounded into their head.

Maybe that's why Mindcandyman's sketchbook is so popular, because it shows the beginning RAAAAAAAAGE and work of a soon-to-be professional artist.

.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=870

In case you live under a rock.

**drd** · February 11th, 2011

I would even go so far as to say that failure should be looked forward to. Recently I've felt this way in my art; whenever I see a piece or a study turning towards failure, I embrace it. I know I am learning from it. I gladly go on with the piece that I pretty much know will be sub-par; however, that doesn't matter, because all it is is evidence that I learned something here.

**vineris** · February 11th, 2011

Originally Posted by Deadlyhazard

So pretty much all of them became depressed and quit. It's really sad when someone who has potential gives up

.

You can think of it that way. But... everyone has the potential to be many things, but the time to be only a few things. You pick and choose what you are going to be good at. You yourself value art so it's sad to you that they are going away from what you value but you don't know what they're going towards. If someone realizes that their true desire is to be at the top of the pile rather than to make art then it's good that they quit. They can find some other pile they can be at the top of, one that they like more.

**meth** · February 11th, 2011

Well when woman goes out(or a guy) she/he want to look their best. It is same thing with (public) sketchbook. Usually people hide their failures and try to overcome them and make their best when they want to present their work to other people. But i have seen some sketchbooks on these forums and i was amassed how does people made their way to create awesome art after not so promising beginning.

M

**AndreasM** · February 11th, 2011

My favorite sketchbooks on this site are the ones that included all the little mishaps along with the occasional successes. As these threads grow, you get to see the artist grow, and you get the chance to witness the fact that failure (and sometimes, success) is a state of mind, and that none of them are final.

**zx52hg** · February 12th, 2011

It reminds me of an old saying. "People work all their lives to become an overnight success."

**doodles-inc** · February 12th, 2011

Great post, so thank you. This is true for me also. There's lots of sketches I don't post because I do feel "they suck". Also I just completed my first CHoW this week and my work is not up the standard of the guys that are awesome. But, it wasn't about that. It was about being apart of this community, about learning and about having fun. Who knows, hopefully my next weekly will be better than the last and so forth.

**Cory Hinman** · February 12th, 2011

A few years ago I was showing some work to fellow students who were farther along then I, and they pretty qickly doped out I was "playing it safe", that fear kept me from growing. One of them just shrugged and said,"You can't correct a mistake until you make it."

**PxelSlayer** · February 12th, 2011

Originally Posted by Halogen

Great post, so thank you. This is true for me also. There's lots of sketches I don't post because I do feel "they suck". Also I just completed my first CHoW this week and my work is not up the standard of the guys that are awesome. But, it wasn't about that. It was about being apart of this community, about learning and about having fun. Who knows, hopefully my next weekly will be better than the last and so forth.

It will. Trust me - it WILL.

We don`t wake up one day being able to...speak a foreign language, compete at the Olympics, climb Mount Everest or...draw in a professional way. It takes a huge amount of patience, quite some practice and a little bit of faith.

That`s it.

Fear of failure...well yea, everybody`s got it. Everybody. But you overcome that obstacle on a daily basis. You fight your battles with yourself daily. And with each battle won, "the enemy" grows weaker and weaker. Never goes away though, and that`s a good thing IMO - keeps you on your toes.

So post your failures. Why not? If nothing else, for the LULZ. (Plenty of those im my SB, btw, so feel free to drop by!)

Yea, so..yea. Or maybe -> Fuck yea!

**MightyApplejacks** · February 12th, 2011

This is exactly why I force myself to post just about everything I draw in my sketchbook.

**Lotuschild** · February 14th, 2011

You're going to have to forgive me. I am a forum addict first, and a rambler second. But hopefully this will help some lurkers out of hiding as well.

I've been lurking for probably 5 years, at the least. I honestly was not interested in drawing much before last year. I thought about it and sighed "Gosh I wish I could do that." But I didn't try, I took no art classes and it took until I was 19 for me to try at all. I am 20, going on 21 now. I doodled swirlies in my homework margins, but that was the extent of my artistic endeavors.

The journey from there to here has left a trail of godawful work I want to forget about.

And I am still learning the basics of everything. But at least now I have enough grasp of what I am doing to try and push for better. After all, a years time has seen considerable progress. Next year? Well I hope I can make as much progress as I have. I won't post everything, but I know for a fact most of what I post is nothing spectacular. But I do feel that I learn with each stroke of my pen/pencil/brush. It satisfies me, when nothing else has. It's the anti-drug of anti-drugs. I am depressed when I do NOT draw. Which is why I try, every day. A day does not go by when I do not have something doodled somewhere, even if it's in a digital paint program.

I was absolutely terrified of posting yesterday. Today I woke up with CC, some of them repeated. Not very many were as helpful as I hoped even though they were still helpful and motivating, but I figure.. even in a structured classroom I must push for someone to truly want to give me advice beyond telling me what I've read a million times here/elsewhere.

But the truth is, no criticism here could be as bad as the ones I make in my own head. No one is going to pat you on the head for posting art that has glaring anatomy issues. For some people, that's what they want. For me.. I know that doesn't help. Encouragement at first, was good. The gentle "oh that looks great" even when it sucked, was enough for me to keep going. So to those people, I understand. There's a time where you just need to feel like it's worth trying.

It doesn't do anything for me anymore, because it doesn't help if I am sitting here staring at something going "I hate this I hate this." Or never finishing anything because I am only decent at that fated 'one thing' that I keep falling back to.

Having someone else crack the whip and tell me I need to step back and learn all this stuff helps me now. Because it creates a sort of expectation that while I already truly WANT to be better, and want to learn things I do not know... The fact that someone isn't giving me posts filled with hearts, smily and fluffy bull helps remind me that I sincerely need to do it to see progress.

That was almost more of a de-motivational. But it's a sincere post. Only you know if you're ready or dedicated enough to thicken your skin and throw yourself into the fire. But once you do, it doesn't burn so bad. It's the leap that is scary. But honestly everyone was drawing stick figures once.

**Xeon_OND** · February 14th, 2011

Originally Posted by Ghast

But what my professor pointed out was that we only ever see the works an artist is proud enough of to allow the internet masses to see. What we DON'T see are the failures and sub par works they made to get where they are.

Good to see this sort of thread! Been waiting for a thread like this since the dawn of time!
My biggest secret CA.org fantasy is to see drawings of folks like Elwell, Baron Impossible, DPaint, JeffX when they first started out. LOL I wonder if these guys are kind enough to post their most crappiest ugliest drawings in this thread. I'm sure it'll motivate me and others totally when we see how the pros used to be like us when we're starting out! I would love to see Marko Djudjevic, Jason Manley and Andrew Jones crappiest drawings that they did when they were starting out! May I? Please? Maybe just PM me, someone.

NO artist has made nothing but fantastic pieces of art from when they started to now. It's impossible.

Although that's true, it's just impossible to think of how gods like Vilppu and Michelangelo, Da Vinci etc., can even make crappy ugly drawings. It's just plain unthinkable. I've tried to imagine how Michelangelo's drawings looked when he did it the 1st time, but just can't. Perhaps his very first drawing already looked like the Libyan Sibyl or somewhere close. I can accept that more.

**QueenGwenevere** · February 14th, 2011

Originally Posted by Xeon_OND

Good to see this sort of thread! Been waiting for a thread like this since the dawn of time!
My biggest secret CA.org fantasy is to see drawings of folks like Elwell, Baron Impossible, DPaint, JeffX when they first started out. LOL I wonder if these guys are kind enough to post their most crappiest ugliest drawings in this thread. I'm sure it'll motivate me and others totally when we see how the pros used to be like us when we're starting out!

Haha, I'd love to see that too. I went to see Donato Giancarlo and Don Dos Santos lecture once and they showed their crappy early drawings to start off the lecture. I also have a book of Brom's work that starts with some of his childhood art. Most inspiring thing EVER.

It's like, "Oh man, how can I ever reach that level... Oh hey, these guys started with bad copies of Spiderman just like everyone else! There's hope!"

Although that's true, it's just impossible to think of how gods like Vilppu and Michelangelo, Da Vinci etc., can even make crappy ugly drawings.

Well, Michelangelo destroyed all his bad drawings on purpose just so people like us would think he was always perfect...

He was evil like that.

**jouzinka** · February 14th, 2011

Originally Posted by QueenGwenevere

Well, Michelangelo destroyed all his bad drawings on purpose just so people like us would think he was always perfect...

He was evil like that.

... the Human concept of Ego. *shakes head*

**dpaint** · February 14th, 2011

Originally Posted by Xeon_OND

Good to see this sort of thread! Been waiting for a thread like this since the dawn of time!
My biggest secret CA.org fantasy is to see drawings of folks like Elwell, Baron Impossible, DPaint, JeffX when they first started out. LOL I wonder if these guys are kind enough to post their most crappiest ugliest drawings in this thread. I'm sure it'll motivate me and others totally when we see how the pros used to be like us when we're starting out! I would love to see Marko Djudjevic, Jason Manley and Andrew Jones crappiest drawings that they did when they were starting out! May I? Please? Maybe just PM me, someone.

Why do I feel I'm going to regret this?
At 30 I quit my steady job in electronics and tried to paint fulltime, I got some book covers from St Martins and Baen but not enough to keep going more than a few months at a time. So I would then go find more work in electronics, save my money and then quit and try and make it as an illustrator artist until I was hired by Lucas at 35. I worked in the game industry full time for 15 years until I switched to gallery work, I still do both, but most of my work is for galleries now and I freelance for illustration and production work. Didn't start to paint in oils until I was in my 40's so about 13 years now.

So here you go,maybe not the absolute worst things I did but still all are cringe worthy except the last one which I still like and own because it signified my change to professional. My age for the images from top to bottom are

chalk drawing of a duck 8 years old.
Acrylic Seascape and dock 15 years old (this won the best of show award in my high school art show)
Acrylic and ink Mainticores 17 years old
Acrylic Still life 18 years old
Acrylic wizard conjuring demon 21 years old
Acrylic the gateway 24 years old
Acrylic Saturn from Iapetus 25 yearsold this won best of show at a Convention fan art show in SF
Acrylic Dragon Rider of Pern 26 years old
Acrylic Woodcarver 32 years old

**Johnny Kane** · February 14th, 2011

I agree with this, and try to constantly remind myself of it. But what about those artists who never improve?

I know I was stuck in a rut for some time with human anatomy because I didn't know the shapes well enough(lol drawing a egg for the rib cage is stupid is what I thought).

But there are other people who get work in the industry, and people are like they're terrible! And you can't tell me that they've never seen an anatomy book...

**vineris** · February 14th, 2011

Originally Posted by Johnny Kane

I agree with this, and try to constantly remind myself of it. But what about those artists who never improve?

Well, what about them? Try to avoid being one is all I can say. I'm not sure why some people seem to be incapable of doing something differently. I know one guy who just makes the same drawing mistakes over and over and if you point them out to him he'll say "I know" and not change a damn thing as near as I can see. Don't do that.

**zx52hg** · February 14th, 2011

Originally Posted by vineris

Well, what about them? Try to avoid being one is all I can say. I'm not sure why some people seem to be incapable of doing something differently. I know one guy who just makes the same drawing mistakes over and over and if you point them out to him he'll say "I know" and not change a damn thing as near as I can see. Don't do that.

People like that are strange. Surely just from continuous repetition alone a person would eventually learn something. Purposely and intentionally making the same mistake again and again sounds difficult. Brains are complex, I guess.

**jouzinka** · February 14th, 2011

Well, to improve you actually have to strive for it. You need to make a conscious effort to draw, criticize, learn from that and implement. Then start over again in a never-ending process.

I suppose at some point some people just reach a state when they are content with the wide-eyed praise of their peers, their technique is good for what they want to draw and they just don't want to put forth the hard work anymore. They are content with that, which is the main "problem" - if they don't want to get better, then there's no shot in Hell they would improve.

That happens all the time all around us, in every other job there are people who are only doing what they have to to go by.

**Lintire** · February 14th, 2011

Honestly, I'm just plain out ashamed of my art - not so much intimidated as simply disgusted of the fact that I suck and that no matter how hard I try the chances are that I won't really ever get much better - my art is comparable to that of a few years ago, and the thought sickens me. That's a different kind of problem, although it affects motivation about as much.

However, a few years ago, I had exactly the same intimidation issues and I suspect that every artist goes through a stage like that in their lives. A post like the good OP is definitely good reading any time of the day - short, sweet, and you managed to convey the point with sympathy.

So thanks, man, I think I might forward that on to a few friends having the same trouble.

**Ghast** · February 14th, 2011

Originally Posted by Lintire

I try the chances are that I won't really ever get much better - my art is comparable to that of a few years ago, and the thought sickens me.

WELCOME TO THE MIND OF THE ARTIST! haha, rarely do we ever notice our improvement until we look back at our old works. And besides, do you honestly think that it only took a few years for the professionals here to get where they are now?

I'm a cellist as well as an artist and I always compare my progression in music to art. I'll have been playing for 10 years in October, and I come from a completely music-free background. I started like everyone else: twinkle twinkle, hot cross buns, the usual. Last year I went on tour with several other musicians to ITALY to perform. Thats in 10 years time and I'm nowhere near as good as other people my age who do music full time. Its the same with art. You get what you put into it. Practice everyday for ten years and you'll probably still be unhappy with your work, despite massive improvement. the curse of the artist I suppose

**vineris** · February 15th, 2011

Originally Posted by Lintire

Honestly, I'm just plain out ashamed of my art - not so much intimidated as simply disgusted of the fact that I suck and that no matter how hard I try the chances are that I won't really ever get much better - my art is comparable to that of a few years ago, and the thought sickens me. That's a different kind of problem, although it affects motivation about as much.

Well, when you tell people that you're going to do life sketching way back in October and then don't actually post any life sketching then what do you expect? You did things that weren't very useful for a few years. It happens. Now harness that shame to your cart and make it actually pull you somewhere.

**Xeon_OND** · February 15th, 2011

Originally Posted by QueenGwenevere

Haha, I'd love to see that too. I went to see Donato Giancarlo and Don Dos Santos lecture once and they showed their crappy early drawings to start off the lecture. I also have a book of Brom's work that starts with some of his childhood art. Most inspiring thing EVER.

If you ever had a chance to take a pic of their early works, do post them here.

Originally Posted by dpaint

chalk drawing of a duck 8 years old.
Acrylic Seascape and dock 15 years old (this won the best of show award in my high school art show)
Acrylic and ink Mainticores 17 years old
Acrylic Still life 18 years old
Acrylic wizard conjuring demon 21 years old
Acrylic the gateway 24 years old
Acrylic Saturn from Iapetus 25 yearsold this won best of show at a Convention fan art show in SF
Acrylic Dragon Rider of Pern 26 years old
Acrylic Woodcarver 32 years old

I can't believe I'm seeing this! The duck drawing done at 8 yrs old is already amazing; as far as I remember, my 8-year old drawings weren't even close to that. That sea painting at 15 yrs old is the most frightening of all; painting realism in acrylic at that age is crazy; I won't even bat an eyelid if Lucas hired you at 15 yrs old!
Reminds me of Picasso who painted some very realistic portraits when he was a teen when many of us at that age were still struggling with drawing stickman.

Originally Posted by jouzinka

I suppose at some point some people just reach a state when they are content with the wide-eyed praise of th

eir peers, their technique is good for what they want to draw and they just don't want to put forth the hard work anymore. They are content with that, which is the main "problem" - if they don't want to get better, then there's no shot in Hell they would improve.

In order to prevent that, one must always make it a point to compare his own drawings with the top guys and the old masters. That's the best way toi humble yourself and feel inferior when you see someone's superior artwork!

**jouzinka** · February 15th, 2011

Originally Posted by Xeon_OND

In order to prevent that, one must always make it a point to compare his own drawings with the top guys and the old masters. That's the best way toi humble yourself and feel inferior when you see someone's superior artwork!

If you pick art as means to pay your bills, then yes, I suppose so.

But even then, well... I can imagine there are artists who only do it because they need to pay those bills, while their hearts lie in something totally different. Tiny minority perhaps, but still. And I actually don't see anything wrong with it - it's only a matter of priorities.

If we all strive to reach the level of the great masters, then what glory will be left to the great masters? And how do we tell who's the better when we actually reach that level? You always need the darkness for the light to shine.

So, um, yeah. I say to each his own and live and let live.

**JeffX99** · February 15th, 2011

Hell, I post crappy stuff now! But I'll try to find some early stuff to share...may take awhile...

**vineris** · February 15th, 2011

Originally Posted by Xeon_OND

That's the best way toi humble yourself and feel inferior when you see someone's superior artwork!

Well that sounds useless. How about sitting there thinking "What is it that makes this good?" or "How was this made?" or even "Let's see if I can make one." Feelings of inferiority just make you emo and then you get nothing done. As long as you have some goals and know where you stand in relation to those goals then you'll keep moving forward.

People who don't move forward either think they've attained their goals, or they HAVE attained their goals or they've given up.