Photoshop vs Painter (which one?)!!!
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    Photoshop vs Painter (which one?)!!!

    I have been using Painter 11 with a large wacom tablet. I am considering purchasing photoshop, but I am not sure which one is best. I see that most digital art is created with photoshop. Any advice?

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    depends on what you are using it for. Photoshop has more 3d capability now which is great for 3d modelling. Painter is better for getting a more traditional look to an image. If you spend time with either one you can get most of the effects you want if you know what you're doing.

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    I'll let you know in a few weeks after I've dabbled in my shiny new Painter software! LOL!

    I started out with Photoshop. I think it's one of those things that you tend to stay pretty loyal to what you started out with, but I can't really know for sure since I haven't used Painter yet!

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    I dont do any 3D modeling, I mostly just draw fantasy pictures. Im trying to delve into the world of color, Im learning so much so fast that it is making my head spin, but Im not going to stop until im one of the best, it will probably take my whole life to get there but what the hell, lol. Im not interested in wether my digital art looks like a real traditional painting or not. I just want to make what I see in my mind visible to others in my artwork.

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    Why not both? They're not mutually exclusive, I find it extremely useful to begin a work in Photoshop because the foundations are much easier to pin down. Then when I have them I might go into painter and finish it off with a traditional look. Works for me =)



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    Both programs will give you a 30-day trial (I've just done both with my shiny, new computer). Why not give Photoshop a try?

    I'm about halfway through my Painter trial, and I'm not getting on with it very well. I'm just so accustomed to Photoshop after all this time, it's hard to learn a new tool and I get frustrated easily.

    That said, a lot of my favorite digital artwork seems to come out of Painter users. They do get a more painterly look out of it than I can seem to get out of Photoshop.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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    Quote Originally Posted by damascus57 View Post
    Why not both? They're not mutually exclusive, I find it extremely useful to begin a work in Photoshop because the foundations are much easier to pin down. Then when I have them I might go into painter and finish it off with a traditional look. Works for me =)
    You bring up a good point. I've seen many an amazing work done in both Photoshop and Painter. Sometimes it's like you said, PS first and Painter to finish, and other times it's the opposite... Painter first and PS to add textures, etc.

    I second the 30 day free trials for both

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    There is also Art Rage. I've played with the free vesion and it is pretty good for painterly effects. You also can't beat the price compared to photoshop which is about 700 for the newest version.
    Barron Impossible could probably address the full version of Art Rage as I think he does his excellent work with it.

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    Heh. When I tried Art Rage, I got lots of stuff that looked just like paint. Sadly, none of it looked like artwork.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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    This topic is done to death, if you google you'll see "photoshop vs painter" threads all over the place.

    It's like Pepperoni vs Sausage.

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    Thanks everyone for the input! Im going to try the 30 day trial. My problem with painter is that it seems to take way too much effort to make something look right. I know that I am not very experienced, but I do have a grasp on the fundimentals, and I have more imagination than I can handle, but there has to be an easier way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gragg View Post
    Thanks everyone for the input! Im going to try the 30 day trial. My problem with painter is that it seems to take way too much effort to make something look right. I know that I am not very experienced, but I do have a grasp on the fundimentals, and I have more imagination than I can handle, but there has to be an easier way.
    There isn't. It's called practice. Your problem isn't the program. Your problem is you need to learn more. That's it.

    As long as most programs have pressure sensitivity and a hard round brush you can pretty much get what you want on about any program. It's just that there are programs that have its benefits and drawbacks that help with workflow, but it's not necessary for something to "look right"

    That "looking right" depends on us the artist.

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    Lol, very very true Arshes Nei. I think my main problem lies with having the right brushes. There are soo many on painter its ridiculous trying the right one for the right job. Ive heard that the brushes on photoshop are more basic and easier to use. But yes a lot of my problems will be fixed with time and practice, I just want to make the right steps in the beggining, Im still young and dumb! lol.

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    Photoshop
    Painter
    Art Rage
    Alchemy
    Inkscape
    Illustrator

    Gotta catch 'em all.

    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    This topic is done to death, if you google you'll see "photoshop vs painter" threads all over the place.

    It's like Pepperoni vs Sausage.
    I was such a fan of Pepperoni. Don't get me wrong, Sausage is great. But when I leaned that Kielbasa was sausage too, my world flipped!

    I'm hungry now...

    As for on topic, I've seen people great jaw-droppingly GORGEOUS works in either. So whichever you feel speaks more your language and you pickup on, go for it. But go for it to the end! Learn that tool inside and out so that you know what tools and their capabilities you have under your belt.

    What good is picking either app and using a tool without understanding what that tool is doing or how it works?

    "Doing something half-assed more than once just makes you more of an ass."
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    Photopainter lulz. PS is better and more reliable. On big paintings it's much more stable than Painter where few layers make it lag like hell. Painter has its charm, but if you could get only one then the choice is easy, go for PS. And maybe the best thing you can do when you get PS is to just stick with the first 5 or 6 default brushes. You should do 90% of the image with them, anything else is just for "special effects" and finishing touches. I've made the mistake to download a zillion brushes, looking for THE ONE magical brush, but the default ones are more than enough if you know what you are doing. But get a trial first.

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    Probably the only thing that might be a factor is if you work on projects with a team and everyone else is using the Adobe suite, then you might want to be compatible and use Photoshop (assuming you're passing files back and forth, that is.)

    Otherwise, doesn't really matter...

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    If the files can correctly save in PSD format it matters little actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaW_ View Post
    Photoshop
    Painter
    Art Rage
    Alchemy
    Inkscape
    Illustrator

    Gotta catch 'em all.
    First:
    Design
    Drawing
    Value
    Color
    Edges

    Gotta know those!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    If the files can correctly save in PSD format it matters little actually.
    Well, true, if Painter can open and save Pshop files compatible with whatever version you need, you're okay regardless. (The last version of Painter I tried didn't work with Pshop files, but that was a long time ago. Maybe they're compatible now?)

    (Versions are another whole issue... I had to upgrade my whole suite recently because I couldn't read most of the files clients sent me. Argh.)

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    painter have all traditional brushes digitally.
    PS is excellent for color adjustment, image manipulation and many others. Note that cs5 now have mixer brush feature, similar to painter and few interesting bristle brushes.


    unsure? DL THE TRIAL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoat View Post
    Heh. When I tried Art Rage, I got lots of stuff that looked just like paint. Sadly, none of it looked like artwork.
    Hence the "Rage" in ArtRage, I rage every time I try to make something productive with that thing.

    Photoshop CS 5 is brilliant at oils and watercolors, once you understand how the blending engine works it's really powerful, the bristle brushes are a joy to make and use, so much more intuitive than Painter's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portus View Post
    Hence the "Rage" in ArtRage, I rage every time I try to make something productive with that thing.

    Photoshop CS 5 is brilliant at oils and watercolors, once you understand how the blending engine works it's really powerful, the bristle brushes are a joy to make and use, so much more intuitive than Painter's.
    That is a pricey bristle brush...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    depends on what you are using it for. Photoshop has more 3d capability now which is great for 3d modelling. Painter is better for getting a more traditional look to an image. If you spend time with either one you can get most of the effects you want if you know what you're doing.
    Photoshops 3d tools really aren't great for 3d modeling. Or anything else, really. I honestly have no idea when you'd use them. Maybe for matte painting.

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    Photoshop and Painter are good at different things really. When I used photoshop exclusively for design, I was hooked. Then when I decicded to give painter a try, I was REALLY hooked. Painter is good if you're a traditionalist looking to take those first steps into the digital art scene. It has almost all the natural media you can think of, and if you can minipulate that media in real life, you can find a way to manipulate it in Painter. Plus, painter's color mixing is more reminiscent of actual pigments, whereas photoshop's color mixing is more along about mixing light. That might throw you off a bit if you're not used to it, but people produce awesome work in either program.


    That being said, don't expect to have a lot of options for image editing when it comes to Painter...painter does what it's supposed to do and it does it well: Allow you to paint on the computer. If you're trying to do more sophisticated image editing after you're done painting, photoshop wins hands down.


    SO:

    Photoshop:

    Strenghts: Image Editing tools, user friendliness

    Painter:

    Strenghts: Natural media simulation, color mixing



    I also find that there are more tutorials around for photoshop than for painter when it comes to digital painting.

    Hope that helps somewhat

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meloncov View Post
    Photoshops 3d tools really aren't great for 3d modeling. Or anything else, really. I honestly have no idea when you'd use them. Maybe for matte painting.
    Totally agree...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meloncov View Post
    Photoshops 3d tools really aren't great for 3d modeling. Or anything else, really. I honestly have no idea when you'd use them. Maybe for matte painting.
    That's something common in Microsoft and Adobe. No one knows what version is better than others and what is actually needed. For 3D modeling, Blender is open source and free so there is no point in having the extended version PS for no reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gragg View Post
    Lol, very very true Arshes Nei. I think my main problem lies with having the right brushes. There are soo many on painter its ridiculous trying the right one for the right job. Ive heard that the brushes on photoshop are more basic and easier to use.
    Another poster suggests that the problem is practice and skill instead of the program. You agree... and then go back to blaming the program literally in the next sentence.

    It really is just practice and has little to do with any aspect of the program. Both have basic brushes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gragg View Post
    Lol, very very true Arshes Nei. I think my main problem lies with having the right brushes. There are soo many on painter its ridiculous trying the right one for the right job. Ive heard that the brushes on photoshop are more basic and easier to use. But yes a lot of my problems will be fixed with time and practice, I just want to make the right steps in the beggining, Im still young and dumb! lol.
    I believe what Arshes was trying to say is it has nothing to do with the right brushes - it has to do with understanding the fundamentals. I know this may sound harsh (take it as tough love) but you don't "have a grasp on the fundamentals" yet. You can render well from photo reference but that has nothing to do with observation or understanding fundamentals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gragg View Post
    But yes a lot of my problems will be fixed with time and practice, I just want to make the right steps in the beggining...
    Only if you practice correctly and use your time wisely. The right steps are quite well understood and quite simple - just takes dedicated effort working from life to understand the fundamental principles of visual art. Programs, media and tools have nothing to do with it - though some are more direct , more portable and thus more effective.

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    whatever you are comfortable with.
    its like the old "i cant get a girl so ill argue over computers" Windows vs Mac debate. its a tool, and nothing more. it wont make you a great artist. so which one do you prefer? theres your answer.

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