Children on Leashes Tied to Walls While Parents Work - Page 2
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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaW_ View Post
    Misplacedhippos, apes. Humans are part of the great apes. Gorillas, chimps and bonobo chimps are our closest relatives.
    Indeed. I'm just asking questions because I'm annoyed by anthropocentrism.


    Interesting video links... although so far they have annoying notions of "progress".

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterKiller_ View Post
    I'm making no citations because I'm arguing with logic. You aren't.

    It's stupefying that you even think selfishness is a good concept on which to live for human society.
    Do you really think we would get anywhere if everybody only cared for their personal satisfaction?
    Do you realize the world is run by selfish people? And it's reason why we're getting nowhere?
    Do you realize that we would probably still be monkeys if it weren't the appearance of altruistic behaviour?
    How can you say you are arguing with logic when you havn't presented a single citation or example to back up your claim that "the human race was built on altruism".

    You say you are stupified. Present an argument to the contrary of what I have presented, proving your claim. You cannot, so all you can do is spout vague emotional reactions.

    Do you really think we would get anywhere if everybody only cared for their personal satisfaction?
    Yes.


    Do you realize the world is run by selfish people? And it's reason why we're getting nowhere?
    YES. It is run by selfish people on the backs of ALTRUISTS. Promoters of altruism are acting out of GREED and SELFISHNESS. They do not care about you. Nazi Germany was a HEAVY promoter of altruism. Think about it.

    Do you realize that we would probably still be monkeys if it weren't the appearance of altruistic behaviour?
    No, i do not realize that. Humans are apes, not monkeys. They are still apes. You are not arguing with logic, you are arguing out of emotion and I have proven this. Furthermore, other ape species act solely out of self-interest, and they are still in harmony with their enviroment.

    To know what we are is the key to balance, to understand that which we should be striving for, because we have everything to gain. I promote selfishness, but I also promote knowledge. It is in my self-interest to promote the education of children. That is why I posted this article here for everyone to have an emotional meltdown. (emotions are useful for something) Ask yourself why this makes you angry. Is there a real reason you should care that someone is tied to a wall in China and not getting the education they deserve. Ask yourself, could they be the next mind who is going to cure a malignant disease?

    Last edited by Izi; January 20th, 2011 at 08:05 PM.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naomi Ningishzidda View Post

    No, i do not realize that. Humans are apes, not monkeys. They are still apes. You are not arguing with logic, you are arguing out of emotion and I have proven this. Furthermore, other ape species act solely out of self-interest, and they are still in harmony with their enviroment.

    To know what we are is the key to balance, to understand that which we should be striving for, because we have everything to gain. I promote selfishness, but I also promote knowledge. It is in my self-interest to promote the education of children. That is why I posted this article here for everyone to have an emotional meltdown. (emotions are useful for something) Ask yourself why this makes you angry. Is there a real reason you should care that someone is tied to a wall in China and not getting the education they deserve. Ask yourself, could they be the next mind who is going to cure a malignant disease?

    So what happens when that "next mind" cures all the malignant diseases? What happens when the human population grows so large that the planet can't support it?

    I don't get "angry" because of human rights(which are imaginary) issues, I get angry because there are so many humans that a collapse of the ecological networks that support life is likely.

    Not that it really matters in the end whether the earth supports life or not, I just prefer it.

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misplacedhippos View Post
    Indeed. I'm just asking questions because I'm annoyed by anthropocentrism.


    Interesting video links... although so far they have annoying notions of "progress".
    The book is much less...sensational about things. If I could I would edit out all the narration and simply listen to Diamond talk about it. Seems like they recorded all of his stuff, then went back and added narration afterwards. They make the issue seem more political than it is. In the book, Jared speaks about other non-European cultures that dominated others through similar technological advances and sicknesses. Actually a major point of the book was that it wasn't Euro-centric in it's explanations of this geographical influence on civilization. I guess the documentary focuses on Europeans because it's catered to Americans.

    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naomi Ningishzidda View Post
    "deep":I'm not your dear, (frankly I'd rather eat your face first) and you are a troll. Your references to the Tiananmen square massacre is inaccurate and hate inciting.

    Communism is not the cause of all the problems in the world, but it is an evil and it is unethical. I stand by my perceptions based on many years of book reading. Ayn Rand says everything about communism better than I ever could. China has had incredible atrocities commited under Mao's government and under the current administration. Communism does not work for the human animal and will never work as it is scientifically impossible for the model to function with the current limitations of the human mind. If this were child neglect being committed in the United States don't think I would not attack the specifics of Capitalist problems. The Capitalist system only damages China because of the Communist government abusing the will of the people which has been handed over to a few. If Capitalism was global, and the United States Constitution and laws were in place, we would begin seeing laws change to abuse the people, and we would have a new revolutionary war brewing. *Free Enterprise* is different from capitalism.

    I am a fan of *noocracy* alone.

    What would you do if you were in these parent's situations? There is always a choice...


    I wouldn't choose to do that, I rather died and it is very true. read this book.

    The USA support this government too, then only after the massacre they stop



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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepinonespersona View Post
    Its capitalism, my dear not communism. While china was communist children had a high living standard along with everybody else. The mortality rate lower under the people's government; there was a lot of success in China before the capitalist roaders got into power and started practicing. What they called" Market Socialism" which is using the markets to build socialism, but they never went back to socialism after they got finish with building the markets.

    There was a huge protest over this called Tienanmen square, i am sure you heard of it; in our history books. They make it out to be a protest against communism, when in reality, it was a very mix bag. There were people protesting against the government because they were moving away from Marxism and Maoism or revisionism, then you had those who felt that china was not putting enough effort in going towards capitalism. So, after THEY shot up all those people, they decided the best way to shut them up, forever is togive them coke, Sony, Benz, BMW, and high skylines of shanghai.


    China is capitalist, but it not like the US, in china, if you had sold poison shit to make a buck, then you will get a bullet in the head for it.

    when i say this, i am probably going to be excuse of trolling, but artists are suppose to be intelligent as well as creative.

    So, point is read a book, you have to know more stuff than just art. Otherwise people will just think, you are stupid. I mean, we already have a stigma about the art community as a whole. so don't deep the stigma any further.
    This above quote is not condescending in the least bit. Not at all, whatsoever. None, zilch, zero, nada. Not condescending at all.

    "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naomi Ningishzidda View Post
    And you have no argument. You make statements, but provide no evidence to support them. If you look at the root of your argument it has no basis. If I am floundering, (which I am not) you have been sunk if you can't provide even one piece of evidence to support your reasoning.

    Evolution's laws are based on self interest. Darwin proved this.
    It is in the best interest of society for people to not be selfish otherwise, we would not have people helping each other during disaster or people going out of their way at night giving blanket to the homeless.


    This type of crap did not always happen until capitalism came, in pre tribal societies. People was equal and people always help each other in the communities and share the benefits. not just a minority of people, you see now that control the wealth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtZealot View Post
    This above quote is not condescending in the least bit. Not at all, whatsoever. None, zilch, zero, nada. Not condescending at all.
    I did not mean to be condescending.

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepinonespersona View Post
    This type of crap did not always happen until capitalism came, in pre tribal societies. People was equal and people always help each other in the communities and share the benefits. not just a minority of people, you see now that control the wealth.
    This is all just so wrong and fundamentally flawed as an argument that I don't even know quite where to start..

    Did you not even do a year of history in high school?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misplacedhippos View Post
    So what happens when that "next mind" cures all the malignant diseases? What happens when the human population grows so large that the planet can't support it?

    I don't get "angry" because of human rights(which are imaginary) issues, I get angry because there are so many humans that a collapse of the ecological networks that support life is likely.

    Not that it really matters in the end whether the earth supports life or not, I just prefer it.

    It is altruism that is the root of this problem. You are saying that malignant diseases prevent overpopulation, and that overpopulation is the root of the problem. Granted, overpopulation is horrible - the earth is not prepared to sustain it, all lifeforms throughout the course of history have told us that overpopulation kills. I say that altruism is to blame for this. It is the prevailing opinion of the time that it's ok to have many children, god will take care of us, or the government will take care of us. This is altruism and superstition all rolled into one. In the end it serves no one but the people at the top, who only see money, they don't see the environment. Or if they do they are in the minority and battling uphill.

    What if I put it like this: instead of the example, curing malignant diseases, what if someone discovers the next step in clean energy?

    Even in objectivism altruism by itself is not a bad thing, if one chooses to be altruistic then it is alright, but then too much, where everyone is expected to just go along with being altruistic like in superstitious religions it causes many problems. It permeates our society.

    You are right to be angry about the ongoing ecological collapse. It is a very sad thing. All of these problems are caused by altruism and ignorance - by people giving a part of themselves up. The one thing that we need to remember is, the solution is not simple. More time and energy needs to go into supporting public education and the greatest minds of our world. Through objectivity one will find that smart ideas are also selfish.


    There is a belief among many people (myself included) that it is far too late - that we are already in a nosedive and the best we can do is provide some kind of safety net for the few who DO survive....so many of these ideas of what we could have done are only worth a philosophical debate....

    Still, logos and gnosis serve well eternally....

    edit:

    also Naomi Klein is a brilliant author, I concur with her ideas completely (well at least what I have heard when she speaks). Remember that I am not arguing for Capitalism. That system is as broken as Communism and needs to be completely overhauled. What we need is a new kind of government (i propose a noocracy which has never been done before) Also note Ayn Rand was not a capitalist. She was a critic of capitalism as well....

    You may like this video about the recent bailout sham. I had nothing to gain from the stupid bailout so naturally I opposed it..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkpdVL1Vtv4

    Last edited by Izi; January 20th, 2011 at 09:45 PM.
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    [QUOTE=Flake;2995061]This is all just so wrong and fundamentally flawed as an argument that I don't even know quite where to start..

    Did you not even do a year of history in high school?[/QUOTE

    only the bs, they taught for their status quo needs.

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    When did children on leashes become a Rand v. Bioshock battleground?

    Did anyone here ever think that's somewhat, deplorable?

    Or that complex situations don't fit nicely into simple worldviews?

    Maybe this shit is what's wrong with the world.

    All we're missing is some jerk trying to blame this on an "atheist government" or "Christian incursions". Then this thread would be complete.

    Fuckin' A.

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    Absolutely, there is no simple solution. Anything that can be turned into a slogan that idiots can understand and agree with really shouldn't be a government system...

    The majority shouldn't rule, which is why democracy doesn't work...

    But the reason any sane person should turn this into a philosophical debate is because they are somehow in their own way searching for a solution to the worlds problems One of which is kids being tied to walls in warehouses for 10 hours a day, another of which is we are living through the biggest mass extinction in the history of the world. (and if you know your timelines, that means REALLY BIG).

    And no one, not one single person in the entire godamned world has the answer to it all. It's scientifically impossible. So the only way through is to discuss.

    Or you can stand there and pee your pants about it instead of talking....that's always a useful response.

    Last edited by Izi; January 20th, 2011 at 10:19 PM.
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    @ Anid

    TOTALLY!!!

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    I find it amusing that everyone started debating on 'this is not just china, blah blah blah", this isn't communism.."if you dont buy stuff at walmart, these kids will starve etc"...
    I think the main point here is that these kids are tied to a wall, while their parents work...which isn't right.
    In mainland China, especially in the factory areas...money is everything.
    People do crazy sh#t for money here. I know, I live and work here, I work with factories
    to develop and produce the stuff you see in your retail stores.
    Some factory bosses are evil. period.
    And it is free to have one child in china, I never heard of them being compensated to have one child..you even have to pay a LOT of money if you wanted a second or third child..
    Like I said, people do crazy sh#t here for money. Some Junior executives at the more corrupt local companies even marry trophy wives which are then allowed to become mistresses of their big bosses..to get a promotion etc..( this is not the norm, the locals are disgusted by this, but some do it)
    I am happy that things like these are coming out into the open, its hard seeing sht like this and no one believes you and even calls you racist for pointing shit like this out.

    Thank you naomi for sharing this. And this isn't even the worst thing...there are a lot of stories of trucks filled with dead babies who suffocated while being transported like cattle to childless couples in another city...kids being snatched and then deformed by syndicates to work as their beggar slaves..I have seen this first hand. I have held a filth encrusted baby with flies buzzing around him, he was set up on a garbage strewn street corner with a sign asking for money beside him..uncovered at noon..poor thing was parched...tried to carry him away ..then 2 thugs jumped from a small eatery near the kid..they 'owned" him...and I barely escaped being beaten or worse..they convinced the crowd watching I was a 'filthy foreigner from a small country insulting the chinese people"..

    I guess my point is, sh#t like this happens all the time here in the mainland, it is not the norm, but it happens, and I get ticked off when people from far away find ways to shift the blame, find an excuse, say, "it happens everywhere" etc...
    none of these arguments makes these horrible things justifiable.

    Oh, and Naomi, the best thing about chinasmack is reading the comments of the posters after each article, it gives you a better view of how things are viewed over here.

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  17. #46
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    Naomi N, shut up about China, you know nothing. China is not a communist state and has never claimed to be. It is currently a free market capitalist economy with very loose governmental controls. Sometimes this is referred to as robber baron capitalism. Exploitation is high because of the type of selfish attitude you claim is the way forward. If you knew the first thing about Chinese culture or psychology you'd know that they are most likely the most selfish people in the world. All of this countries ills derive from a me first and f*k everyone else mentality. People in China certainly do not get executed for manufacturing tainted foodstuffs that kill lots of kids. On the contrary, one of the biggest issues in China is that guys like that don't even get punished. The Chinese system is like nothing you will ever understand, so don't mouth off about it.

    So at the end of all that, what do we get? Selfishness ain't the way forward. If you think it is, you're living in la la land. The pics of kids in the factory are an extreme deviant example and not typical. It's not western capitalism that made those people tie up their kids, it's because they are uneducated peasants living far from civilisation. I guarantee you that if you asked those parents why it's bad to tie up ther kids, they wouldn't know what you are talking about.

    Don't come down in here from starbucks world and start trashing things you don't understand. Migrant workers in China have tough lives and make family sacrifices you couldn't understand. They are discriminated against and their children are usually refused admission to state schools based on a civil registration system I won't bother explaining here.

    Why can't these people's children attend the schools their parents tax money pays for? Selfishness at every level of government and private life, in so many ways I couldn't go into it here.

    Selfishness is awesome huh?

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  19. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterKiller_ View Post
    I'm making no citations because I'm arguing with logic. You aren't.

    It's stupefying that you even think selfishness is a good concept on which to live for human society.
    Do you really think we would get anywhere if everybody only cared for their personal satisfaction?
    Do you realize the world is run by selfish people? And it's reason why we're getting nowhere?
    Do you realize that we would probably still be monkeys if it weren't the appearance of altruistic behaviour?
    Categorical Syllogism...no?
    No.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atreides View Post
    Exploitation is high because of the type of selfish attitude you claim is the way forward.

    If you knew the first thing about Chinese culture or psychology you'd know that they are most likely the most selfish people in the world.

    it's because they are uneducated peasants living far from civilisation. I guarantee you that if you asked those parents why it's bad to tie up ther kids, they wouldn't know what you are talking about.

    Don't come down in here from starbucks world and start trashing things you don't understand. Migrant workers in China have tough lives and make family sacrifices you couldn't understand. They are discriminated against and their children are usually refused admission to state schools based on a civil registration system I won't bother explaining here.

    Why can't these people's children attend the schools their parents tax money pays for? Selfishness at every level of government and private life, in so many ways I couldn't go into it here.

    Selfishness is awesome huh?
    Thank you, thank you, and thank you.

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    Pfft, just dress them up cuter and make it look like a tail... problem solved.



    Srsly, you gotta have some way to make sure kids don't get into trouble while mama is workin (or going into the store for a minute).



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    Oh and Naomi, you know this forum that you're on? This art forum where people give their time to improve the well being of others? Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems a little bit, ah... altruistic.

    Do you not come to this forum so that more knowledgeable members might share their hard earned wisdom with you? Somehow that doesn't seem to fit with your philosophy, so that would make you a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

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    There's so many messed up things going on in China, it's so easy to paint a picture worse than it is. There's a group of people there that are willing to change things in one way or another.

    Something just as or even far more important than boycotting Walmart/Target and most people still don't even realize: Preventing unneeded ewaste. Chinese children living this sort of city are probably getting far more sicker from ewaste than a sweatshop. Both are pretty horrible though. Everything is relative.
    '07:

    '10:



    And I think my mom did the leash thing once, but she never, ever tied said leash to a pole. She always held it and used it sparingly.

    Last edited by velderia; January 21st, 2011 at 01:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepinonespersona View Post
    Its capitalism, my dear not communism. While china was communist children had a high living standard along with everybody else. The mortality rate lower under the people's government; there was a lot of success in China before the capitalist roaders got into power and started practicing.
    Living standards during to time of mao were literaly sub third world conditions. Mao would starve whole swaths of people to death in order to sell grain to the west. I mean the laundry list of despicable things the great mao has done is longer than my arm. The guy would come out in the open and say that the more people he killed the better. I mean where do you get this tripe?

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    Naomi, I think you just about lost all credibility when you started ranting and raving about Ayn Rand. She was a woman who went off on a bender and became a shrieking harpy ranting about individualism, because she grew up in Russia.

    Hers is a juvenile fantasy that appeals to those wanting to believe they are shackled by the world, being held back by others, just to stop them reaching their mighty potential.

    Do you know what the results of her ethic would look like? Downtown Mogadishu.

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    Naomi, I think you just about lost all credibility when you started ranting and raving about Ayn Rand. She was a woman who went off on a bender and became a shrieking harpy ranting about individualism, because she grew up in Russia.
    Ayn Rand didn't shriek or go off on benders, so clearly you're trying to be dramatic and you are also being a sexist by insulting her as a "harpy". She was quite well spoken and polite in her many television interviews. Her philosophy was based mostly on her love of Aristotle, mankind and logic, not on growing up in Russia. However if she had grown up in communist Russia, it is true she probably would not have become one of the worlds most popular philosophers and best selling authors.

    You argue that she appeals to those who feel like the world is holding them back - this is clearly an opinion from someone who has no comprehension of objectivism.

    My primary philosophical upbringing was poor, so I understand Ayn Rand perfectly well as someone who knows the value of earning respect and not being granted charity for no merit. She had a brilliant mind and was a product of her time. It is true her ideas were not for everybody, and she has a few abrasive habits but the core of her philosophy promotes the best in man. She did not promote violence and she was actually quite adamant that violent was abhorrent, so it has nothing to do with the warlord problems in the middle east that you brought up.

    I'm done with this thread but I think that anyone who finds Rand's work interesting should follow up with her interviews at least to get an idea of her work as it was an astounding bombshell on the world at large and one that was quite needed, and is just as relevant today as it was in 50's.

    I used to consider myself a libertarian less these days - you may be aware that Rand hated libertarians and they were highly influenced by her work, so much so that they remained a rightist party to this day even though they were comprised mostly of long haired hippies and semi-liberals. So I am actually on the fence with Rand's ideas - there are a great many philosophers I value, not the least of which is Rand, but she is not my favorite. (Diogenes of Sinope may be)

    Her arguments in particular have something to say about the situation the op posted...

    And I am glad to promote her work as it is essential reading for anyone, whether or not they agree with her. It doesn't really sound like you have studied much of anything about her.

    You may start here with the first Mike Wallace interview:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ukJiBZ8_4k


    Quote Originally Posted by HunterKiller_ View Post
    Oh and Naomi, you know this forum that you're on? This art forum where people give their time to improve the well being of others? Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems a little bit, ah... altruistic.

    Do you not come to this forum so that more knowledgeable members might share their hard earned wisdom with you? Somehow that doesn't seem to fit with your philosophy, so that would make you a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

    Yes, it is quite altruistic and also selfish, but it is my choice, one I made out of the my currency. It is selfish of me to promote art - i do have ulterior motives outside of just making someone happy to get a critique. I may or may not discuss these reasons, but I consider my presence here to be completely selfish. Your short concept of selfishness is that of being a stupid lout who hoards crap and lets others be miserable. These people are allowed to exist because of the blind altruism - the force of one's will over another to support and love others without any standard.

    My philosophy I have barely discussed - I am only discussion a portion drawn from objectivism which was invented by Ayn Rand and is considered *Satanic*

    Last edited by Izi; January 21st, 2011 at 08:01 AM.
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    Reminds me of my years working at EA.

    I like the open workspace.

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    I love how both sides see tend to see this as a black and white issue.

    China is neither fully a communist or capitalist state. In fact, no country is one or the other; ever since the fall of the Berlin wall, governing bodies have abandoned ideology in favor of pragmatism. This is good, since there is no all-encompassing solution to cure the wide array of unique problems facing each country. China's problems are no different. What works for America right now probably won't work for China, conversely, what works for Norway probably won't work for China.

    Just as each person is unique and responds differently to different stimuli, so to do countries respond differently to different situations.

    So pleeeeeeeeeeease don't fall into the trap of creating a straw man to support your political views (i.e. It is capitalism's/communism's fault!). Again, Capitalism and Communism do not exist in their ideological forms in China, so don't use China as an argument against those ideological forms!

    *Note: this only applies to China post 1978 .

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    tldr thread.

    But I'll say that one of the reasons we are where we are today is because western countries has ventured away from self interest and started caring more about the whole. A few hundred years ago this wasn't as obvious at all. And a few select people concidered their welfare to be more important than everyone elses. And because they had the power noone could do anything about it. And countries like China and Soviet Russia has a lot more in common with these countries than western wellfare states.

    Yes selfishness is an evolutionary trait. But so is sharing. Do you think a primitive human tribe would function if everbody kept all the food they gathered to themselves and didn't share with everybody else? I do believe that to get a fully functional society everyone needs to care about everybody. It's fine to only take care of your own if you live by yourself. But when you're a part of a bigger society it's important to do your part for the whole. There are also studies that show that both rich and poor people are happier in a society where the differences in income are smaller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blahm View Post
    Living standards during to time of mao were literaly sub third world conditions. Mao would starve whole swaths of people to death in order to sell grain to the west. I mean the laundry list of despicable things the great mao has done is longer than my arm. The guy would come out in the open and say that the more people he killed the better. I mean where do you get this tripe?
    Where did you get yours?



    the People’s Republic of China virtually eliminated mass famine and illiteracy. Health care, education, employment, housing and food became fundamental rights guaranteed to everyone. While these rights were weakened with the implementation of “market socialism” policies, beginning in 1978, current living conditions for Chinese workers and farmers are far better than they were before the revolution.



    China's industrial economy under Mao grew impressively--at an average rate of 10 percent per year, even during the Cultural Revolution. China, the former "sick man of Asia," transformed itself into a major industrial power in the quarter century between 1949 and 1976--a rate of development comparable only to the greatest surges of growth in history.5 And it achieved this without relying on exploitation or foreign assistance, and in the face of a hostile international environment.



    Agriculture grew by some 3 percent a year, slightly exceeding population growth. By 1970, the problem of adequately feeding China's population had been solved. This was accomplished through integrated economic planning, a system of collective agriculture that promoted grass-roots mobilization, flood control, steady investment in rural infrastructure, and the equitable distribution of food to peasants and rationing of essential foods so that all people were guaranteed their minimal requirements.6 This was a radical break with China's past in which floods, droughts, and feudal oppression caused routine mass starvation--a condition common today in many Third World countries. And keep in mind that the amount of arable (farmable) land in China is only 70 percent of that in the U.S.-- but had to provide for four times as many people.

    http://www.jstor.org/pss/653882


    ttp://rwor.org/a/1248/mao_china_setting_record_straight.htm#footnote5ret urn

    Last edited by Deepinonespersona; January 21st, 2011 at 01:06 PM.
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    Naomi please stop being so pretentious and full of yourself. You are lamenting about the evils of China and human exploitation from a computer that was probably strip mined and assembled at a factory with inhuman conditions somewhere in China. If you were really the selfless individual that you claim to be, you wouldn't be living the average North American life from day to day that is fully dependent on the exploitation of others (everything from the petrol that you put in your car to your $1.75 medium coffee to the clothes you're wearing). If you REALLY wanted to take a stance against the supposed evils of this world, why not try living like this guy?:
    http://sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepinonespersona View Post

    Mao nostalgia

    You have got to be kidding me.

    You do realize that false reports and statistics are a large reason why 14 - possibly 43 million people died of starvation during Mao's brilliant economic policies? Oh, the industrial economy certainly grew, cause Mao forced his people to give up all their metal-wares and go make steel all day.

    Even my communist friends despise Mao's economic policies...

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