Beginning a painting
Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop

Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Beginning a painting

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    387
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 137 Times in 128 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Beginning a painting

    When beginning a painting what are the merits behind blocking-in and line drawing?

    I recently began a painting and I didn't know what I should start with. Are they both separate approaches? Or are they traditionally meant to be used in some order?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  2. #2
    JeffX99's Avatar
    JeffX99 is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,896 Times in 2,544 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Good question - but too general. Depends on so many factors as there are many ways to start a painting. I'd try the exact same painting twice - one from line-work and one by blocking in. You'll start to figure out which approach you like. Nice work in your sketchbook by the way.

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,972
    Thanks
    1,331
    Thanked 1,923 Times in 757 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I agree with Jeff.
    However, a few things to consider:
    The best method (in anything actually) is the one that puts down your thoughts as directly and immediately as you can possibly conceive. This will depend on what you are thinking about, how you think about it and all this stemming from the kind of temperament you have.
    So, whatever is the most immediate way of regestering what is on your mind.....anything else is veiling your intentions with untruths.

    Last edited by Chris Bennett; January 13th, 2011 at 05:42 AM.
    From Gegarin's point of view
    http://www.chrisbennettartist.co.uk/
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Chris Bennett For This Useful Post:


  5. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    387
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 137 Times in 128 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I did start the painting with both approaches and it was curiosity that led me to the question. I wasn't sure if line-work in the early stages of painting was an accepted technique, or if it's a beginner error that is subsequently replaced by blocking. I'm not looking for a right answer, just a discussion in order to shed some light.

    Thanks for taking a look at my SB by the way, you've got some nice life drawings yourself - all that anatomy study pays off.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,972
    Thanks
    1,331
    Thanked 1,923 Times in 757 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    So, which method did you find put down your intentions most directly FUSH?

    From Gegarin's point of view
    http://www.chrisbennettartist.co.uk/
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    387
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 137 Times in 128 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Well Chris, I would have to say blocking in this case. But if what you say about temperament is true, then I must have been in the appropriate frame of mind, as the study before I started with line-drawing and that worked out.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  8. #7
    JeffX99's Avatar
    JeffX99 is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,896 Times in 2,544 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Are you using oils? Going for full color or monochromatic? When I do my plein air I usually start with just a quick, linear sketch in thin oil to establish all major shape boundaries - then go right in to the blocking stage. If it is very complex, like an architectural scene, I might spend more time developing a more accurate sketch. For portrait/figure I tend to stay monochromatic and like to wipe the paint out. If I'm doing an illustration I develop a fairly tight drawing and various color/value studies - eventually I do a final drawing for the illustration, have that copied and adhere it to masonite with matte medium. Then I go in with paint and just follow my drawing and studies (pretty much the way Gurney works or Giancola).

    Richard Schmid talks about four different ways to start a painting in his book "Alla Prima" - which is excellent.

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to JeffX99 For This Useful Post:


  10. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    387
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 137 Times in 128 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I'm using full colour digital means.

    So in your case you use the line sketch as scaffold, before going into the blocking. However, in your portrait/figures you start with blocking and skip the sketch altogether. Is this because the elements of a portrait are intuitive enough that you feel comfortable forgoing that step, whereas architecture is not yet as intuitive so a sketch step helps?

    At the moment I understand that a line sketch helps to define boundaries, after which blocking is used to define planes of value (and subsequently also boundaries, where different places meet). Where I am confused is: if blocking can also define boundaries, what is the point of a line sketch?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Gold Coast, Australia
    Posts
    819
    Thanks
    397
    Thanked 795 Times in 279 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    First before we begin I would like to recognize the traditional owners of this thread, the KIWIS. (What's 3 + 3? Lol)

    Now, you can block in and define boundaries as well as using line sketching to get your point across, it depends on what works for you, and what's easier for you to visualize the final product and/or the style of the painting. For example, if you find yourself blocking in forms of light and tone, you may find it easier to establish a more realistically oriented painting, which will have good spacial perception (in theory.) Using line sketches will make it easier to navigate the flow of your image in terms of linear design, because your eyes will follow the flow of the lines you place. Since you're using digital, it's extremely versatile so you can really block in your core shadows underneath lines that you already established, or vice versa.

    These are my observations but again, whatever works for you.



    Jordan Beeston
    Sketchbook Livestream Infinity Wars
    Blessed are they who see beautiful things in humble places where other people see nothing. - Camille Pissarro

    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    We do transmutational yoga and eat alchemy sandwiches and ride flying unicorns of esoteric freudian solipsism while googling anthropology. Whee!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    387
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 137 Times in 128 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I gather from this discussion so far, the aid of a sketch is to provide a scaffold; lines of a feature, placed down after assessing the relationship to the features surrounding it: angles and distance toward other prominent physical areas and major changes of value. These enable use to critically asses the scene, note down feature relationships and construct an accurate representation before we commit paint.

    To me, skipping the sketch step means we aren't placing emphasis on correctness of structure - for the sake of either style or speed - but perhaps instead placing it on the colour.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  13. #11
    JeffX99's Avatar
    JeffX99 is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,896 Times in 2,544 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by FUSHANDCHUPS View Post

    So in your case you use the line sketch as scaffold, before going into the blocking. However, in your portrait/figures you start with blocking and skip the sketch altogether. Is this because the elements of a portrait are intuitive enough that you feel comfortable forgoing that step, whereas architecture is not yet as intuitive so a sketch step helps?

    At the moment I understand that a line sketch helps to define boundaries, after which blocking is used to define planes of value (and subsequently also boundaries, where different places meet). Where I am confused is: if blocking can also define boundaries, what is the point of a line sketch?
    Well....not exactly....for landscapes the shapes/boundaries are generally broad/large and soft or at least organic so a veryquick sketch, in thin paint, is all that I need to start. Architecture has much more perspective of course, linear elements, repeating forms, etc. so a tighter sketch helps keep all that defined. Portrait/figure is on a different scale than the others and I just find it easier to begin to establish my lights right away by wiping out the tone.

    In all cases I start broad and general trying to see and establish the correct light and value pattern....working toward more specific detail as the painting develops. I have no real idea how I would approach it digitally...my digital work is entirely non-painterly.

    Edit: I'll try to find a couple demo shots that shows what I'm talking about...it may be tomorrow though...

    Last edited by JeffX99; January 13th, 2011 at 09:46 PM. Reason: added note...
    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  14. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    2,337
    Thanks
    1,074
    Thanked 2,198 Times in 1,055 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    There isn't a single "right" way, you do whatever gets the job done. How you approach it may also depend on whether you're painting directly from life, or doing an elaborate invented image, or what. If you're painting directly from life, odds are you don't need a thorough drawing to start with, because you've got your subject right in front of you.

    If you're doing an invented scene, though, there may be many stages of drawing, studies, refs, etc. culminating in a finished drawing on which you base your painting. In that case, many people use the finished drawing as a starting base for their painting (transferring it to canvas or scanning it or whatever.) Personally I project the drawing onto the canvas and trace the main lines of it so I know where stuff goes (or scan it if I'm working digitally,) then block in roughly over that (my underpaintings are messy, so I don't fuss too much about sticking to the line drawing, it gets completely covered over in the first stage anyway.) Meanwhile I have the final drawing tacked up beside me as a "model".

    Some pros like a very finished underdrawing, though - for instance, Donato Giancarlo does a very tight drawing, then xeroxes it and pastes the xerox to his canvas and uses it as a base for his painting.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to QueenGwenevere For This Useful Post:


  16. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    387
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 137 Times in 128 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I was never looking for a "right" way, I was looking for discussion into who uses what, at what stage and ultimately, why.

    I use sketches because I like the scaffolding they provide; however, it seems common to start a digital painting with blocking in. I was interested to hear other work-flows, particularly those from a traditional background.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to FUSHANDCHUPS For This Useful Post:


  18. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,972
    Thanks
    1,331
    Thanked 1,923 Times in 757 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    OK, I'll see if I can throw something in a little more concrete. It is interesting in that it does not really involve 'blocking in' or 'linear scaffolding' in the usual sense of the term at all....you may find it of interest as an example of what I mean by the process directly responding to and reflecting the means by which one is thinking about an image. (By-the-way FUSH, I love your avatar!)

    Here is a method I use for a certain type of image that I'm shooting for where everything stems from graphic forces and holds to them even as the painting 'tightens' up. You can see see how I start with fundamental pulses of gestural energy that buckle the canvas right from the start. I then proceed to overlay further forces that articulate and impinge or redirect the first ones. I continue this right down to even painting the smallest forms that 'become' eyes and noses and arms and cloths.....
    I'll load some other examples of different approaches I use for entirely different means when I have a moment later.

    Name:  progress.jpg
Views: 623
Size:  385.1 KB

    Name:  progress Orangerie.jpg
Views: 616
Size:  396.0 KB

    Last edited by Chris Bennett; January 14th, 2011 at 05:25 AM.
    From Gegarin's point of view
    http://www.chrisbennettartist.co.uk/
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  19. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Chris Bennett For This Useful Post:


  20. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Corpus Christi TX
    Posts
    264
    Thanks
    112
    Thanked 94 Times in 57 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Wow, Chris. I wish I could hear your thoughts as you painted those.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  21. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    2,337
    Thanks
    1,074
    Thanked 2,198 Times in 1,055 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by FUSHANDCHUPS View Post
    I was never looking for a "right" way, I was looking for discussion into who uses what, at what stage and ultimately, why.

    I use sketches because I like the scaffolding they provide; however, it seems common to start a digital painting with blocking in. I was interested to hear other work-flows, particularly those from a traditional background.
    Fair enough, I misinterpreted "traditionally meant to be used in some order", I guess...

    But at the end of the day, there isn't even one traditional way, it really depends on your approach. People who go in for traditional glazing typically apply thin layers of paint over a very tight value drawing, for instance. But people painting alla prima are more likely to go straight for blocking in, or loose scaffolding and then blocking in, or some such variation... Both approaches are pretty traditional.

    I've also seen people use an approach similar to glazing when painting digitally, instead of blocking in (I don't remember the exact techniques, but it usually involves painting on semi-transparent and effects layers over a tight value drawing.)

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  22. #17
    JeffX99's Avatar
    JeffX99 is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,896 Times in 2,544 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    OK - here are a couple of "process" examples that are pretty typical of the way I work. I get kind of wrapped up while painting so forget to take shots of every step - in both cases I left out the sketch/"scaffold" stage but you can still see it in the landscape a bit and in the models hair at top and shirt/shoulder area. Hope that gives you a better idea.

    And I really recommend that Schmid book - I think you'd get a lot out of it - easily one of the top ten must have books for anyone interested in painting.

    Attached Images Attached Images    
    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  23. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to JeffX99 For This Useful Post:


  24. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    387
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 137 Times in 128 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Chris Bennett: Thanks for the process you put up. Nice and clear.

    QueenGwenevere: No worries, what you described was really helpful and just what I was looking for.

    JeffX99: Thanks for the post, those processes are really helpful, and for reminding me about the Schmid book, it's finally on the list.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

Members who have read this thread: 3

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •