Sketchbook: Boriol's Sketchbook
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  1. #1
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    Boriol's Sketchbook

    So, I just registered for CA and looked at some sketchbook threads.

    What. The. Heck. I've been drawing all the wrong things for three years. EVERYONE here is better than me. I started drawing with the intention to become good enough to draw the characters from my stories, but that eventually turned into the desire to become a professional artist, and I've recently realized that starting out on manga was a HUGE mistake.

    So now, I join an elite site with amateur art so that I can actually make something out of my art "skills." At the same time, I want to improve my loli-ish manga style into something likable by more than just a small percentage of art fans.

    I operate on a low-end computer and an Intuos4 tablet, but most of my drawings are done traditionally, as my sketches in Sai and Photoshop usually don't turn out to my liking.

    As of now, I'll start my journey into a professional career.

    EDIT from November, 2011: Until somewhere on the 3rd page of this thread, the above statement is a lie. I was gone for almost a year and recently returned because I realized just how valuable this site is. I hesitate to associate myself with anything I posted before then.

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    Rocks that do NOT rock. I seriously need to get manga-style coloring out of my head. I need help, and my art teacher's always too busy with random people and their abstract paintings to do any full critiques. This is why the Internet owns.

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    It's great to that you've acknowledged the fact that you want to improve! that's the first great step. Next is just... study study study! After all the studying, you can then apply your knowledge of it into artworks and stories you want to tell.

    The fastest way to improve is to draw as much as possible. To flush out manga, maybe try to draw from life. Apples, plates, people, trees, everything you see!

    I can't critique because i'm an amateur, but I can say;keep going!

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  5. #4
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    I was almost afraid to look when I saw that there was a reply here, but I got encouragement instead. *Huge sigh of relief*

    What you said was probably one of those things that I knew all along, but wouldn't acknowledge till someone pointed it out. Thanks.

    I don't want to phase manga out completely--I like drawing people who look nice, and manga people, by definition, are supposed to be beautiful (although some just fail). Still, it would be nice to have a solid style based in realism, but with the added aesthetic appeal of manga. Before I can do that, I should get realism down.

    Are there any techniques or anything that I should be aware of, going into concept art? Like, stuff I wouldn't know with 3 somewhat wasted years on a self-limited style (limited: no backgrounds, animals, vehicles, etc. All I drew was people, and mostly teenage/preteen girls at that)?

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    Everyone comes from somewhere, it's nothing to be ashamed of :] It's definitely admirable that you're motivated to broaden your talents and improve though, congrats! I started in kind of a similar situation, since when I was younger I started out trying to copy the anime styles too. I noticed right away how deeply it corrupts the ability to render in any other style, and since then avoided anime like the plague.

    You're absolutely right that it would be beneficial to solidify your skill in realism first and then modify your style back in the manga direction. One of the biggest faults I've seen with artists that draw purely anime style is that they have absolutely no knowledge of anatomy, and their art just looks like a carbon copy of every simplistic anime drawing out there.

    Just start sketching anything and everything :] Getting your hands on references and books to educate yourself on anatomy from is the most valuable move at the beginning. Doing some drawing studies from life or photos is also really useful for a lot of things, including colors, values, and adapting a painting technique.

    Basically just draw anything and everything. As always, the more you draw the better you get Act like the biggest sponge in the world and start trying all different subjects and themes and styles, and as you go we (and you) will start seeing where you're improving and favoring and I'm sure many here will help you along the way

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    By acknowledging the need to improve you're already on the road to becoming a great artist!

    That being said, I see that you've used the blurr tool in your rock painting. NEVER EVER do that. The blurr tool always lessens the picture. Just blend by applying stroke by stroke of closely varying colours! Or more varying colours if it's a dramatic lighting set (like a sunset)


    Also, to practice anatomy, try the 30 second gestures every day!

    http://www.posemaniacs.com/?pagename=thirtysecond

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  10. #7
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    Well I would have to say that your backgrounds are a bit lacking but your definitely off to a good start, and your pencil work is pretty damn good. Your on the right track considering you noticed that starting out straight from anime style was not the easiest thing to do.
    But at least your didn't build your way up to a realistic-ish style then all of a sudden ignorantly get stuck only drawing manga style. Cause thats what I did and now it's really hard for me not to draw that way and I gotta re teach myself while I'm in college.

    Luckily for you, you seem to have an excellent idea of what your doing wrong and a pretty decent direction to go in to fix it.

    Hope you get the improvement your looking for and I'm looking forward to seeing some awesome updates soon

    FEEL FREE TO BASH OR LIKE MY SKETCHBOOK (either or is great 4 me)
    SKETCHBOOK
    My "Weekly" Comic
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    Featheredface, that posemaniacs site is really cool, I'll definitely be trying that out! :]

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    Welcome to the journey! Knowing where to start is an important part of the battle.
    I learned to draw in my friend's basement on xerox paper. It even had the water mark in the corner! Like you the 'art' we had in school was useless so this is a great place to hang out.

    I did a paint over of your rocks. When shading something abstract the easiest way is to try and block out the shapes. Choose a light source and try to think simply - things pointing away from the light source will be darker then things facing them. Block in the basic tones. (step 1)
    step 2- I just removed the lines from the first example. If your satisfied with your basic shading you can smooth out your edges, or sharpen them, depending on how you want your object to look. Bringing you to 3.
    After you get the hang of simple shading you will want to look into more complex things like reflected lights and how color effects the whole thing.
    Hope this is helpful!

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  15. #10
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    Those rocks rock. The tutorials I find I DA could never produce that sort of result.

    -Posemaniacs - I think I've found a new addiction. Those 30 second drawings are actually really fun, if just a bit frustrating when I only have the shoulders done and it switches pictures.

    Just some random sketches. I highly disapprove of them, but you know what they say: never throw old pictures away.

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    My art teacher said something else: "We need to tear apart drawings sometimes" and that tearing apart was totally physical I usually keep my little drawings but there are times when they are simply too bad to exists

    Hm. I drew way worse than you after 3 years... Not like it matters much, I stll can't draw anything but some boring faces from easy angles *shrugs* But now I plan to speed up.
    There's practically always time ahead to improve. Don't look back too much, keep going forward.
    You are critical, it seems you see your flaws and you practice. You will improve. I don't see any reason to be disheartened. (I know what a reason for that. I experienced it.)

    I'm sorry I talked too much about me this time. I gladly criticize your faces if you draw them bigger By the way, the head 4 isn't bad. 5 is totally irrealistic, human skulls are different, look at some skulls, take attention to the jaw Sklls and therefore, heads can have very different shapes but the triangle shaped face that's so popular in manga and anime, that doesn't exist. And of course, if you used to that style, you better watch your eyes, eyes are pleaced very irrealistically in most anime and manga and their size usually is't normal either, of course.
    I don't really mind manga and anime as reference/inspiration, I definitely won't talk out anyone of it, let alone myself

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  18. #12
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    Shinin, your sketchbook is titled "Beginning of a Long Way." Now, I feel more like that should apply to me. I've learned basic anatomy, so I'm not quite a COMPLETE beginner, but since I've been doing an unrealistic style for so long, making the transition feels like I'm actually BELOW the beginner level.

    Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it.

    So, I tried a bunch of Posemaniacs drawings. I did 30 second sketches for about 20 minutes before the rest of my team (a game design team. Ironically, I'm the artist) arrived. Then I had to go back to manga because our game is a classic JRPG, but with a non-linear storyline.

    The drawings. They failed. I drew about 40 poses, I think. Then I watched a video sample on Posemaniacs and realized that I totally failed. I was just getting in rough guidelines and sometimes not even finishing those, whereas the people in the videos were whipping out a figure in 30 seconds that would have taken me 5 minutes or more. To spare the eyes of anyone who views this page, I didn't post them. The only good thing I can say about them is that they were in fairly accurate--not anatomically correct--poses, all up until I tried foreshortening.

    Beginning of a LOOOOONG way, more like it. I really want to make this work, though.

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  19. #13
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    {I got carried away. Your post reminded me of many things. I try to behave but I have no self discipline.}

    You are AT beginner level Because you are a beginner. There's a big difference between a complete beginner and a beginner. One can be the latter for many years - it depends on the harshness of one's inner critic as well, of course
    I think I can't consider me a complete beginner, but I'm a beginner - who doesn't even really started. I studied anatomy and I can't even watch an anime without spotting out especially well made things that make impact and I had to make a screenshot of it... Tutorials, pro painters' wise words about old masters' works, books, whatever...
    I even know what I should practice a lot and how.
    I just practice very little and too cowardly. The area where I dare to do something is extremely tiny. Well these all get a bit better lately But I still avoid figures, for example. I failed at them too much, it hurts.

    I didn't see much of your drawings yet but looking at these... I think you are a promising beginner who can expect quick improvement in the beginning. You know some anatomy, your hand used to drawing lines... there are surely more They will help.
    Your last bunch of sketches tells me you can't be very bad.
    {Oh the complete beginners... even if their family and devart friends praise them and they themselves think they are good... how extremely crappy they can be. Seriously, when someone has no idea about the basic proportions of the face and body... I'm nice to the tiny ones but when they say they are good... Or if we can see any problem and present a really messed up scary figure, in 3 megapixels of course because resizing is very difficult for an artist wannabe... Then my inner artist starts to sharpen his already pretty powerful claws... I stops him to use his full power though. That would be unsighty.}

    But the drawings in your first post confuse me.
    I would understand if you had some great anime style simple thing - and you couldn't draw a realistic face at all.
    But your somewhat realistic stuff is better than the stylized ones...
    You remind me a bit of myself... Hm.
    In #1, the first are a cute sketch (from a very easy angle), the second is horrible, the third has some good and some bad points and a background I don't wish to comment. I think you have a huuuge room for improvement in regards of colors, but I personally thing the improvement isn't hard in the very beginning in this area. I may help you a tiny bit, not like I'm good with colors but I know a few things about them.

    A game... I'm the artist of a game too Poor game but the programmer is working on it extremely slowly too. And he don't give me specifications... I always got specifications for my tasks, I'm a programmer, not a creative one, after all... But now I'm the artist. poor game. It will be a Touhou style danmaku shooting thing with linear gameplay, many characters, deep plotlines and everything It based upon Touhou and a Haibane Renmei x Bleach fanfic the programmer wrote. Well he's writing it. Now his speed is, like, one chapter per year...?
    HR and Bleach are two anime that are so very different they can't be mixed. But he did it...
    {by the way... I worked with "artists" who barely did anything and that was crappy. and they missed the deadline. and they worked from home for a way bigger money like me, the programmer... one reason why I quit my job when I had no chance to find another soon }

    No, no, your sketches were practice. Practice is good. Even if the results aren't so great (little time and a beginner... why would they be good? it takes much skill I think)... even if they are really crappy... drawing them probably has some good effect. It's strange but it works this way. Once I drew some cartoon hands. They were bad. The next time I draw hands I felt I do it better.
    You made a mistake. I never watched such videos Don't compare yourself with others... Tegakids (I frequented Tegaki E for more than 2 years. almost everyone there could be my child... they're young and there are crappy and good ones. some of them are 14 and draw many times better than you or me. a great, expressive drawing can be made in minutes... and some of them make hundreds of them a day... for years... and there's text and deep RPing...) do it all the time too. When they aren't busy with crying over the fact they turned 18 or 17 or 15 and now they are old.
    You are in a race with yourself. You should do what you can. Do your best and have fun. The two are connected anyway.

    I got bored of posemaniacs soon but I did some 10 and 15 seconds drawing back then. They were surprisingly good sometimes... I'm sure I'm basically quick when I have some skills and/or am warmed up and in a good shape.

    Looooong way, you say? Good observation. I have improved in the last years but if I think about, I can't draw anything... Just faces from easy angles, without much expression and variety. With flaws at lighting. If I'm lucky and take my time.

    I want to see more pictures from you. You should draw a lot and put the result here!

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  21. #14
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    I know I shouldn't do short posts like this, but I gotta say one thing:

    When I said "Looooong way," I wasn't referring to you--I was talking about myself, that I had a really long way to go. I haven't seen your sketchbook yet (looking in just a sec). Sorry if that discouraged you. I know it's kinda discouraging when someone says something like "Oh, you have a really long way to go, man."

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  22. #15
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    Not at all And I understood you.
    We both just start the real deal!
    Join the "update every day and improve like crazy" branch I'm one of if you can

    {My inner critic tells me kinda everything I do suck. Or very flawy.
    Don't think you can discourage me with your gentle self.
    Praises upset me more. At least the ones I don't agree with
    I'm not an easy person.}

    Now, finish this private talking and draw, both of us!
    Best wishes and don't forget, I'm very curious about your stuff.

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  24. #16
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    I haven't heard of any issues on short posts just as long as you don't build up like 8 blurbs in a row. And even then it's more of a problem in other people's SB's cause it's kinda rude to take up space with things the owner doesn't really care about.

    So as far as I know your good.

    keep the updates coming

    FEEL FREE TO BASH OR LIKE MY SKETCHBOOK (either or is great 4 me)
    SKETCHBOOK
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  26. #17
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    Hello there, nice to see you're here to improve. I used to draw manga style too, and only recently have I started trying to learn how to draw realistically.

    As a bit of friendly advice, it always seems so hard to draw normal 'realistic' proportions at first, since you'll be programmed to doing stylised anime/manga. But if you keep on practicing you will definitely get the hang of it.

    When you learn how to draw people realistically, you can start integrating your own style- by the end you might even go back to manga, but even so it will definitely be much better then before you started your studies.

    So anyways, good luck with your progress! Hope to see more soon

    Take a look? - Sketchbook - Tumblr -
    Also, why not check these guys too?

    Krysjez - Clur
    Cheers
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    Keep it up! Progress will follow!

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  30. #19
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    Update. I've been drawing anime for so long that I get really critical on a face drawing if it isn't completely beautiful. Darn lolis.

    1. Rocks. Still not as good as I'd like.
    2. My first try at a semirealistic male face, from imagination.
    3. My second try at a semirealistic male face, from observation. Originally, it was supposed to be Roy Khan, the lead singer in Kamelot, but it turned out looking like some random vampire.
    4. First try at a semirealistic female face, from observation. I still failed.

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  31. #20
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    Just a few things for now...

    Softness so tly not suits normal rock. What about using my faaaaaaaaaaaavourite brush, the fixed opacity hard round one? I spent years using just those on Tegaki E and I'm thankful for that. I try to used to the pressure sensitive opacity hard brush now, but it's too soft, I use it for the last touches...
    It's just an idea, I dislike when someone tells somebody else too much which tools/approach to use. I hated it as a programmer and I'm the same as an artist wannabe. You should find your way and favourite methods but softness is usually horribly amateurish in the beginning.
    (I saw good pictures those looked like blurry crap in the beginning, so there are strange things in the word but I still think it's too much useless effort)
    Forget about soft brushes, blur, smudge and anything like this

    Apart from softness, the lighting of the rocks are pure guesswork, I don't see any structure or thinking about planes. It seems very rushed to me. Not like I never do such things, I just say what my inner critic says. It's obviously not easy at all.

    Faces. Use bigger brushes. Study the planes of the face.
    The girl's mouth is tiny, learn to look and draw what you see. The nose is undefined and do you see the shadow under the mouth? That's important.
    Assymmetrically positioned eyes. Every beginner does it I guess. Me too of course, it's annoying

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  33. #21
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    Looks like your anime influences are messing around your idea of proportions.
    Here;


    The isn't as wide as the nose, far from it. It should be much wider than that, maybe it could help you whilst you're starting out to put a 'grid' over faces like this
    . Have you heard of Loomis? If not, check out these links:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/501782/And...Head-and-Hands
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/255814/And...Figure-Drawing

    (they take a while to load, but it'll be worth it.)
    Just keep drawing, but try to always focuse on the proportions of the bodies/faces.
    Anyways, you're working hard so keep up the progress.

    Take a look? - Sketchbook - Tumblr -
    Also, why not check these guys too?

    Krysjez - Clur
    Cheers
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  35. #22
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    Naidy, Shinin--thanks for the help. I need as much as I can get.

    I downloaded all of Loomis's books a few years ago and never really paid attention to them till now, 'cause I thought I was gonna be "the best manga artist in America." I thought, for about a half a year, that I wasn't gonna use stuff like skeletons and fancy shading and stuff, but I was SO wrong. I just went and sketched a bunch of stuff from his books in art class (more like, do-what-you-want class). I tried taking a picture to get it up here, but my laptop's webcam suddenly didn't work (yeah, it's getting old. I've had my laptop since I was 13, I think). So I'll post tomorrow.

    In the meantime, can anyone recommend a good tutorial/lesson on GOOD digital coloring? Preferably free, but I have about $35 in case there are no free tutorials worth anything out there. I've checked DA, but all I've found was "how to draw anime skin" or "how to draw furries (yuck!)" or "how to draw a realistic face--in anime style."

    I guess I noticed it a long time ago, but now I can really acknowledge that DA is a primarily anime-based community. Still, I wouldn't have joined if I didn't know that in the first place.

    /text blurb

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  36. #23
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    Well, it's good to hear you're already doing Loomis studies, I have to admit I took his book forgranted when I first skim read it. xD

    And tutorials?
    Just look in the forums here!
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=42
    Tutorials, tips and tricks has a bloody great collection of tutorials- I'm sure I've seen a few digital colouring ones.

    Also, there's always the chance you'll learn something interesting by lurking on the art discussion thread.

    Take a look? - Sketchbook - Tumblr -
    Also, why not check these guys too?

    Krysjez - Clur
    Cheers
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  38. #24
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    I would recommend subscribing to ImagineFX if you have the money to spare, it's all abut digital painting :] Or if you're near a bookstore, you could most likely find their latest issue on sale their to buy individually. There are some non-anime tutorials on deviantart that are worth a look, you just have to dig for them. If I can later on, I'll try to dig up the ones I recall for you.

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    I don't recommend loomis if your doing loli =) Half of the idiots on here don't know what makes good or bad art so they recommend Loomis.

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    For heads do some drawing of skulls in perspective. It's way easier to draw a face when you understand where the eye sockets are, the cheek bones etc..
    your rocks are better, but don't be afraid to put down bold colors draw a little value scale and use a high opacity sharp edged brush.

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  43. #27
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    Mr.Gimpy Loser: Now I apologize to Boriol if this seems like I'm trying to start a fight on ur page cause I just want to make sure you dont get sent in the wrong direction here. But MGL you are sounding like an ignorant know it all talking like that, many times learning to draw lifelike figures is a really helpful way to make sure you can have something to base your stylized work on. Lumis is a great book and theirs probably a reason it's so often suggested. In all honesty I would love to see you prove me wrong and if you do I will definitely apologize but given all the information I have about you I can basically assume your one of those "idiots on here don't know what makes good or bad art". Please don't go on people's sketch books who are looking for help and make statements that are looking fro trouble like that because it's just plain rude.
    Boriol, if you want me to remove my comment I will, but like I said I'm just trying to help

    Boriol: I think 3 key things u may want to look at are your head lengths, mout size and how the nose looks as the head turns. Whats funny is that your doing it in a perfectly reasonable way for anime style. But like I kinda already said to Mr.Gimpy Loser, if you are good with life like drawing than you can use your anatomy to make up your own style and look.
    Good luck man.
    Oh I just remembered something. I don't know how much time he has, but their is a member called Klaus Reinbach III that is absolutely amazing with Loli style anime and may have a few pointers.

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  45. #28
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    @MGL - I love drawing manga and lolis and such, but the reason I'm here is because I want to get a solid foundation in realistic anatomy and construction. Yes, ultimately, I want to draw bishojo, loli, and moe. Heck, my goal is to be the best manga artist in America, and to bring moe to a point it's never been before (epic-level action). I don't think I understood anatomy well enough to get anywhere before, and the fact remains that if I keep practicing lolis, moe, and nothing but--my skills will be too limited when it comes time to draw some commission/manga/game art, and I'll end up one of those starving artists.

    @Rhubix - Thanks for the advice. I'm having a hard time making fixed hard brushes do what I want them to, but I know I can do it.

    @Medu - You don't have to delete it. You made a point, and I believe MGL can acknowlege it and learn from it.
    It only makes sense that I can do things "correctly for anime style." If I couldn't after three years, that would be a little sad, not to mention discouraging. At least I know I can safely fall back to anime when I get realism down.
    Klaus Reinback III. Sounds interesting. Based on the awesomely high standards on this site, I have a feeling I'll have a new artist to stalk. Thanks for referring me to him.

    --

    1. Rocks on reference again. I think I'm STARTING to understand them.
    2. Posemaniacs gesture drawings. Now you see why I said they failed.
    3. Stuff from Andrew Loomis and Posemaniacs.
    4. Same as 3.

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  46. #29
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    I think you are one of the best self encouraged students I have ever met! You have no prob acknowledging where you've made a mistake or two and on top of that you know some great ways to try and fix those probs.
    Oh and for the sake of your wallet you may want to try using PS and your tablet to do a whole bunch of figure studies( i have had this suggested to me so many times I'm getting a head ache from it, but their right and I do need to get on it )

    Good luck dude and thanks for being cool about my rant X)

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  48. #30
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    Of course, use what brush float your boat but it's useful to give the others a chance or two. I could do nothing with the pressure sensitive opacity brush in the beginning but at some point I realized that's cool I start with my fixed opacity brushes (pressure sensitivity on size), lower and lower opacity and then I switch to the p.s.op. brush to get a smoother look. For rocks, I wouldn't use the latter - unless I would draw a polished rounder rock, not a rustic, angular one.
    Experiment with techniques, tools and don't forget, most of us don't produce great result for the first try You need practice, obviously.
    I can say the same for the posemaniacs. Do more. And longer ones if you can't finish them in 30 seconds. For some reason, beginners (in some sense) tend to wish to paint something cool in a very limited time and get frustrated if it doesn't work. Don't rush.

    "still got anime eyes" head. I actually like this, nice head, just not realistic in every aspect. It's very apparent you drew many heads in your life
    The nose and mouth are too low and the eyes are too big, especially their height. I'm a bit cautious now because faces varies a lot but realistic faces more less than anime ones. But it's a quite good head, ears in their place (they can't go from brow to nose because that would be very long in this case), great mouth, the nose hardly could be better using just a few strokes...
    The other faces show you need practice. Practice then. Don't worry or think just do it

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