Sketchbook: Oh NOES, not AGAIN! - Page 2
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  1. #31
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    p sage is offline in pursuit of hot lines Level 14 Gladiator: Dimacheri
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    It's good to see people so interested in drawing in 2D and in traditional media now that everything is going to digital & CGI/3D.

    You're certainly a part of that. Congrats

    Something you said disturbed me deeply, though. You said you took a class "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain."... I assume that class was based on Betty Edwards' book?

    I'm afraid her book has done at least as much damage to aspiring new artists as it has helped.

    It's not really a book for people interested in learning how to draw; instead, it's a book that demonstrates that anyone can learn to render things much more accurately than they think they can. It does get your hopes up that if you stink at drawing, that one day you can learn to do it right.

    HOWEVER.... it's damaging in that once you're through with the book, you have the sneaking suspicion that you haven't learned anything about drawing.... even if you religiously practice all the blind contour exercises and everything it suggests for weeks and months... and that suspicion is right! You haven't learned anything.

    Understanding what you're drawing ultimately comes from the left hemisphere of your brain; all understanding does. Language comes from there as well. Recognition comes from the right brain. There's a difference.

    Unless you understand what you're drawing--the construction, the way light works, the proportions--, you'll be doomed to try and copy everything with blind contours the rest of your drawing career. That's a huge handicap.

    Just understand this if nothing else: You can't rely on your right brain to carry the entire load if you want to become a successful, fulfilled artist. Betty Edwards only gives you part of the story. Her book is meant to get the ball rolling--not to give you all the answers about drawing.

    Hope this helps in some way; to get started on the left brain side a bit more, grab the Bridgman book or another like it. Study the simple constructions of the human form. That is understanding. Eventually you'll be able to combine that knowledge with the cognition and creativity of your right brain, and you'll be a whole artist!

    Good luck

    Thinking connects desire with creation.
    How good are you?

    The Road to Perdition
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  3. #32
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    p sage: Thanks for the comment, Sage.

    And well... my ultimate goal *is* photo-realistic digital painting, but... on the way there I'm really going to experiment with media (charcoal workshop at the end of the month) and find myself in those as well as I don't really feel connate with my tablet. Maybe it's just not yet, maybe it will be a lifelong coexistence out-of-necessity. I love my pencils, but I can't say at this point whether it really is the medium or its familiarity.

    Yes, it was a course. Two day course and I do think that it was based on her book. It gave me one or two special pointers, taught me how to see a few things, but it all boils down to the fact that I had a great time, it gave me a much needed break from work and it was an incredible ego booster.

    Incredible ego booster.

    It did give me the confidence that I lacked all the way back in June 2009 when I joined conceptart and felt so intimidated by all the great art here and it got across that point that nobody really managed to hammer into my head up until that moment: that with practice everyone can learn to draw. After those two days I was given a photo portrait of Greta Garbo and six hours later, lo and behold, I had my own copy of the Swedish beauty. In pencil, on my paper, drawn by my own hand.

    I think that that's what finally caused the coin to drop and made me want to take the plunge.

    That being said, I don't really take it as the alma-mater of drawing, albeit those exercises that I learned there are good and I still use some of them as a part of my warm up routine. Plus, an interaction with a living flesh-and-blood person is always different than staring at my screen, but that's mainly what I take those courses/workshops for: a getaway from my routine. If I can learn a few things about drawing there (or get something explained in other words that I may not have been understanding all that well before), then all the better.

    I'm fortunate enough to have a patient and knowledgeable mentor to guide me through the steps, a great and supportive sketchgroup, great online buddies who feel the inclination to comment on my progress and an incredibly resourceful community of people who seem to genuinely want to better one another.

    I'm an incredibly lucky girl.

    And of course, along the way I have the tireless duo Professor Blook <-> Andrew Loomis, Hogarth, Vilppu, Bridgman, Reed... boy, that list is soon gonna be longer than the list of my ex-boyfriends, haha.

    Thanks for your insignt and well wishes. They mean a lot.

    qlotzan:Hi and thanks for the welcome.

    And your kind words as well. Hope I'll get to browse your sketchbook as well soon. And I promise I'll keep working hard.

    -><-My sketchbook. Please, if you have time, crit as if your life depended on it.
    Or maybe check out my friends, they deserve it more.
    DeterminedAnimator | Naidy | Kalin | Leo_7 | saltfox | DanielsK5 | Lunatic Hermit
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    "The fate of us all lies deep in the dark when time stands still at the Iron Hill."
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  4. #33
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    Love the noses! I've noticed since I've started paying more attention to them I can't stop staring at other people's noses. xD

    But anyways- good to see you're studying AND taking time to work from imagination whilst retaining what you're learning. It's a good technique to sandwich imagination between studies, gives you an opportunity to apply what you've been learning.
    So yes, you're working hard and that's what I like to see. Keep up the good work!

    Take a look? - Sketchbook - Tumblr -
    Also, why not check these guys too?

    Krysjez - Clur
    Cheers
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    hey jouzinka, the rendering on those still lifes look amazing, it looks like all the hard work you're putting in is paying off keep up the good work.

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    The still life drawing course sounds good! The folds of the tie look really good, very realistic

    Also, I love the way you draw hands.... I'd love to see more hands xD

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    hm... I gotta disagree with p sage on some points

    but I also agree on a lot of points, so here's my wrap-up of the book, and I have to say it helped me a LOT when i started drawing.


    - the book is seriously dangerous if read without guidance or appropriate warnings, or if read in isolation

    - the book is super helpful if you understand it correctly, because it shows you kind of a hidden back door into the world of drawing that you never would have found otherwise.

    - the book does teach a certain way of drawing - which is realistic copying. if you were to read only this book and nothing else, you'd at best become the world's best human camera, but you'll never be able to draw anything creative. that's what loomis is for

    - doing those exercises over and over again is silly. I dropped the book halfway through and skipped a lot. the exercises are not there for practice, they're there to prove a point and give you that "ah-ha! i would've never thought about it that way" moment. that's all, but it's enough

    -the most important lesson in the book is not about drawing, it's about seeing. and that's incredibly important to any artist:
    DRAWING IS SEEING
    ...and your seeing is fundamentally screwed when you start to draw. your brain just isn't up to the task because most of your visual perception uses mechanisms that were "good enough" when you were 8 and haven't changed since. have a look at her chapters on symbols, and you'll see what I mean. they're absolutely must-read!


    phew, i think that sums it up nicely. once you get to the point where you feel that she's made her case and you won't forget it anytime soon, drop the book and move on to loomis or bridgman or anyone else who teaches construction and line quality and gesture drawing


    sooooo.... long story short: from looking at your sketchbook you're doing everything right. you got 'drawing on the right side of the brain', you got loomis, nothing can go wrong if you stick with it!

    best of luck

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  12. #37
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    p sage is offline in pursuit of hot lines Level 14 Gladiator: Dimacheri
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    True. But drawing what you see is a myth. You can't draw what you see because it won't read on a 2D medium.

    Remember Whistler's words when a student of his said "I like to draw what I see"... "Wait til you see what you draw!"

    You have to understand the construction of shapes and how to make them read on 2D media. Edwards doesn't give you this.


    IGNR

    Last edited by p sage; February 21st, 2011 at 01:53 PM.
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    nice start =]
    i could probably only recomend a larger sketchbook, or like 500 looseleaf cartridge paper isnt bad for practicing on - and throw in some copic markers and u can get some cool bleed effects and stuff. keep it up- goodluck!

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    Howdy, thanks for stopping by my sketchbook. Seeing yours is awesomely motivational, you have improved so much in just six weeks! Amazing!

    I love the shine on that shoe and folds on the tie. Don't worry about "cuddling" a drawing, there's nothing wrong with taking your time. It's a lot better than being impatient, anyways What you said about the chair was really interesting, how we perceive things is so different from how they really look.

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    I'm sorry everyone, for being so silent and I know it's rude to just do an image dump like this one, but I really need to hit the hay today.

    I promise replies tomorrow.

    Images, yeah... mostly practice for Kalin's group.

    Decided to fight my indecisiveness with lines with hard caliber. Not sure of the outcome. I'm starting to be terrified of a blank paper. Before I put a line down... uf. :'(
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    Lips with no reference. I still need to do a whole lot more from references.
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    References, hehe. Was supposed to draw five heads, well... this will have to do.
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    And a few ears for this week's practice. Should try to draw those in pairs as I'm awful with mirroring two identical things.
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    -><-My sketchbook. Please, if you have time, crit as if your life depended on it.
    Or maybe check out my friends, they deserve it more.
    DeterminedAnimator | Naidy | Kalin | Leo_7 | saltfox | DanielsK5 | Lunatic Hermit
    Drawing group:
    "The fate of us all lies deep in the dark when time stands still at the Iron Hill."
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  18. #41
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    nice update, your non reference sketches are getting better, and the studies are looking good.

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    You make me want to draw noses. xD

    Nice studies, and I like how your imaginatory sketches are getting better too- just goes to show how fast you can progress when you work hard. Keep up the good work as always mate.

    Take a look? - Sketchbook - Tumblr -
    Also, why not check these guys too?

    Krysjez - Clur
    Cheers
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  22. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naidy View Post
    Love the noses! I've noticed since I've started paying more attention to them I can't stop staring at other people's noses. xD

    But anyways- good to see you're studying AND taking time to work from imagination whilst retaining what you're learning. It's a good technique to sandwich imagination between studies, gives you an opportunity to apply what you've been learning.
    So yes, you're working hard and that's what I like to see. Keep up the good work!
    ... and who taught me that, hm? You did, so thanks. And yes, I noticed that too - I stopped reading at the public transport and I'm watching people. Makes good for my daily dose of awkward situations when that person looks my way with the "Are you watchin' me? o.O" all over their face and me being suddenly oh-so-busy with looking anywhere else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_7 View Post
    hey jouzinka, the rendering on those still lifes look amazing, it looks like all the hard work you're putting in is paying off keep up the good work.
    Thanks. You should have seen the wall with the drawings. Amazing, I really loved how we were all so different with expressing ourselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by saltfox View Post
    The still life drawing course sounds good! The folds of the tie look really good, very realistic

    Also, I love the way you draw hands.... I'd love to see more hands xD
    Hi and thanks for stopping by my sketchbook and thanks for your compliment. More hands, hm? Well, aside for the one with the feather I haven't drawn one in a long time. Would be fun to try again. I may indulge you soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by NeonDuck View Post
    hm... I gotta disagree with p sage on some points

    but I also agree on a lot of points, so here's my wrap-up of the book, and I have to say it helped me a LOT when i started drawing.


    - the book is seriously dangerous if read without guidance or appropriate warnings, or if read in isolation

    - the book is super helpful if you understand it correctly, because it shows you kind of a hidden back door into the world of drawing that you never would have found otherwise.

    - the book does teach a certain way of drawing - which is realistic copying. if you were to read only this book and nothing else, you'd at best become the world's best human camera, but you'll never be able to draw anything creative. that's what loomis is for

    - doing those exercises over and over again is silly. I dropped the book halfway through and skipped a lot. the exercises are not there for practice, they're there to prove a point and give you that "ah-ha! i would've never thought about it that way" moment. that's all, but it's enough

    -the most important lesson in the book is not about drawing, it's about seeing. and that's incredibly important to any artist:
    DRAWING IS SEEING
    ...and your seeing is fundamentally screwed when you start to draw. your brain just isn't up to the task because most of your visual perception uses mechanisms that were "good enough" when you were 8 and haven't changed since. have a look at her chapters on symbols, and you'll see what I mean. they're absolutely must-read!


    phew, i think that sums it up nicely. once you get to the point where you feel that she's made her case and you won't forget it anytime soon, drop the book and move on to loomis or bridgman or anyone else who teaches construction and line quality and gesture drawing


    sooooo.... long story short: from looking at your sketchbook you're doing everything right. you got 'drawing on the right side of the brain', you got loomis, nothing can go wrong if you stick with it!

    best of luck
    Thanks! You guys will make me buy the book soon, hehe. Thanks for stopping by my sketchbook.
    Quote Originally Posted by Providenc View Post
    nice start =]
    i could probably only recomend a larger sketchbook, or like 500 looseleaf cartridge paper isnt bad for practicing on - and throw in some copic markers and u can get some cool bleed effects and stuff. keep it up- goodluck!
    Having an idiot moment here, but could I have that in English, pretty pretty please? I didn't get a word of what you said. Thanks for the goodluck, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by elmenora View Post
    Howdy, thanks for stopping by my sketchbook. Seeing yours is awesomely motivational, you have improved so much in just six weeks! Amazing!

    I love the shine on that shoe and folds on the tie. Don't worry about "cuddling" a drawing, there's nothing wrong with taking your time. It's a lot better than being impatient, anyways What you said about the chair was really interesting, how we perceive things is so different from how they really look.
    Hi and thanks for stopping by my sketchbook as well. And, well, I already can tell that I'm going to be the person who never finishes anything in her own eyes and the urge to adjust will always be there. I find it very difficult to leave something be, I have to force myself to leave it because I could ruin it further. Maybe sounds funny and my drawings likely look like they need a -lot- of work, but when I look at them, I realize that there's nothing I could add to them at this point with my skill level. I still feel a strong urge to do so.

    And yes, that thing with the chair was such an epiphany. Even funnier it is that when I look at the chair now it again doesn't look that it's drawn straight - it again looks as if there were an angle.

    Naidy and Leo again: Thanks to you two for being my companions in this. Your kind words mean a lot to me.

    No update yet for today and I'm not sure I can get to draw much today as it's already 7 pm and I'm at work... Will see.

    -><-My sketchbook. Please, if you have time, crit as if your life depended on it.
    Or maybe check out my friends, they deserve it more.
    DeterminedAnimator | Naidy | Kalin | Leo_7 | saltfox | DanielsK5 | Lunatic Hermit
    Drawing group:
    "The fate of us all lies deep in the dark when time stands still at the Iron Hill."
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    Quote Originally Posted by jouzinka View Post
    ... More hands, hm? Well, aside for the one with the feather I haven't drawn one in a long time. Would be fun to try again. I may indulge you soon.
    Yay! xD
    I think it's because I can't draw hands at all so I'm strangely intrigued by those who can

    The nose and lip studies from references are looking good, keep postin'

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    The noes you did from reference a great. Even the lips with no reference. You are improving keep it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielsK5 View Post
    The noes you did from reference a great. Even the lips with no reference. You are improving keep it up.
    +1, great improvement.

    Don't forget when you draw to compare shapes, line and objects : for example, in your second nose from reference, if you draw the nose first, you look at the picture and you compare with the mouth, is it longer, smaller, the same size ?--> you draw object in comparison with something you have already drawn (like the size of an eye if you are drawing a face, the size of a head if you are drawing a figure, etc...).

    To be or not to be , this is the question !

    Help me drawing the head


    My sketchbook

    PS: Sorry for my bad English
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    pretty good study i like the mouth and nose study that you do it from the ref.

    keep it up

    qlotzan

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    Sooooo, time for today's image dump.

    Not much, I'm afraid. Crazy day at work and plus some really weird mood.

    Replies:

    saltfox, DanielsK5 and qlotzan: Thank you for all your kind words.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeek View Post
    Don't forget when you draw to compare shapes, line and objects : for example, in your second nose from reference, if you draw the nose first, you look at the picture and you compare with the mouth, is it longer, smaller, the same size ?--> you draw object in comparison with something you have already drawn (like the size of an eye if you are drawing a face, the size of a head if you are drawing a figure, etc...).
    One of the things you "know," but it actually takes someone to nudge you. When you say it, it makes sense, but as I was drawing, wow... I didn't do that. Main reason probably is because I'm still struggling with drawing if it's not in 1:1 ratio. But thank you, I'll be mindful of the measurements. Or at least try.


    Here. As my mentor commanded suggested, I'm starting with figure drawing and then onto gesture! Imagine my delight. I could dance with my feet barely touching the ground, so happy it made me.

    With the gentle guidance of Walt Reed.

    The first two is an actual photo and the mannequin. On the right I tried to draw the mannequin first, without the grid.
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    Not much success.
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    Right proportions (somewhat), center of gravity off.
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    And that's it for today. Hope to have more soon.

    -><-My sketchbook. Please, if you have time, crit as if your life depended on it.
    Or maybe check out my friends, they deserve it more.
    DeterminedAnimator | Naidy | Kalin | Leo_7 | saltfox | DanielsK5 | Lunatic Hermit
    Drawing group:
    "The fate of us all lies deep in the dark when time stands still at the Iron Hill."
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    Ooh, Galadriel!

    keep it up. Re:lips from imagination, always remember the form of what you are drawing. 'feel' it in your mind.

    Sketchbook

    Naidy • Black Spot • Eyestrain • VK

    “This is [...] where the anvils are made of graphite, the hammers are as true as rectangular marquee selections and the fires burn with the light of a thousand lensflares.” --Jason Rainville
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    krysjez: Hi, thanks for stopping by my sketchbook. And you're right, the lips are flat and so are the noses, mostly. I was rather concentrating on differentiating male/female than form. Can't do multitasking while drawing yet.

    Just a little something before I hit the hay.
    Expanding on learning the correct proportions.
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    -><-My sketchbook. Please, if you have time, crit as if your life depended on it.
    Or maybe check out my friends, they deserve it more.
    DeterminedAnimator | Naidy | Kalin | Leo_7 | saltfox | DanielsK5 | Lunatic Hermit
    Drawing group:
    "The fate of us all lies deep in the dark when time stands still at the Iron Hill."
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    Wooo! Nice studies, I wish I had more to say but you seem to be doing everything right. Only thing that I can really say is that Loomis has some good examples of center of gravity, balance, etc. You probably knew that already, though.

    Keep on improving

    "Dang girl, if you weren't a figment of my imagination I'd wanna have yo baby."
    - Adventure Time, Jake

    "All the thoughts of a turtle are turtle. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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  37. #52
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    Keep at it will keep an eye on your posts for the next few months.

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    Those last few studies are pretty interesting, I don't think I've seen ones like them before, but it looks like it's helping you understand how to relate thing's sizes to the head which'll help your proportions.

    Well, hard to crit you since you're already working hard at solving your problems through studies. All I can say is keep it up and try your best to internalise what ever patterns you notice.

    Take a look? - Sketchbook - Tumblr -
    Also, why not check these guys too?

    Krysjez - Clur
    Cheers
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    Keep drawing, keep posting, and most importantly, KEEP KICKIN BUTT!!!!

    Sketch people outside and post what you draw

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  43. #55
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    So sorry to have disappeared from virtually all life on CA and for being so scarce in your sketchbooks, my friends. Work went batshit crazy, the tension there is likely to give us all stomach ulcers and we mostly don't know the day or the hour we get fired.

    And I can't cope with this kind of stress. It has my brain totally scrambled, I'm disinterested to do anything, I'm fatigued... Needless to say, my creative processes are equal to zero, I have to force myself to do anything, so learning in this state is slow, if any at all, IF I actually manage to get myself to do anything.

    And all the joy is gone too, of course. :'(

    I do have some new jobs on the horizon and I hope this will resolve soon before I go totally crazy.

    Sooooooooooooo, hope you, guys and gals, will use the time to get way ahead of me and kick my butt royally when I get back.
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    -><-My sketchbook. Please, if you have time, crit as if your life depended on it.
    Or maybe check out my friends, they deserve it more.
    DeterminedAnimator | Naidy | Kalin | Leo_7 | saltfox | DanielsK5 | Lunatic Hermit
    Drawing group:
    "The fate of us all lies deep in the dark when time stands still at the Iron Hill."
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  44. #56
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    Och, it's great to see you back but I can understand why you were a little inactive lately, anyone in a similar environment is likely to have a right dip in creativity.

    Hope things turn out better for you soon. :C

    Take a look? - Sketchbook - Tumblr -
    Also, why not check these guys too?

    Krysjez - Clur
    Cheers
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  46. #57
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    O hey thar, your studies are looking great!

    And I hope you feel better soon! Maybe you could take a break from studies for a while and when you feel like it scribble random things down, scribble anything down, make a huge ugly scribbley mess, that's what I do when I get annoyed xD

    I look forward to your return!




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  48. #58
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    Thank you both for your kind words. They do mean a lot to me.

    -><-My sketchbook. Please, if you have time, crit as if your life depended on it.
    Or maybe check out my friends, they deserve it more.
    DeterminedAnimator | Naidy | Kalin | Leo_7 | saltfox | DanielsK5 | Lunatic Hermit
    Drawing group:
    "The fate of us all lies deep in the dark when time stands still at the Iron Hill."
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  49. #59
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    Sooooo, things are a little calmed (before a storm, I'm sure). UPDATES!

    Tried to sketch a figure standing on one leg from imagination. See fail on the left. Then instead of taking my sketchbook in front of the mirror and draw, I stood and tried to feel what my body was doing instead. Worked somewhat better, but upper torso needs to move to the left for balance. On the right burnout drawings with a ballpoint pen on the quest to gain more confidence in my lines.
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    Almost every figure I sketch from imagination before doing a study is way above 8 heads tall. Mostly I end up with 9. Funny thing? According to Loomis the proportions are somewhat okay. On the right I had NO REF for the appearance, but I did draw the table to fit the proportions into vertically.
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    Special update for Saltfox. Picked up a random no-name pencil at work that "claimed" to be HB. I did a few finishing touches with 8B, but otherwise I didn't touch it with any other pencil. HB my ass. Note to self: need to start drawing your hands on a vertically posed paper. Fingers way too long. Looks distorted if shortened to fit paper.
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    "Watched" ice hockey playoffs today, so I sketched from Pixelovely. Or at least tried. I'll bring these tomorrow to work and will try to measure what can be measured.
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    -><-My sketchbook. Please, if you have time, crit as if your life depended on it.
    Or maybe check out my friends, they deserve it more.
    DeterminedAnimator | Naidy | Kalin | Leo_7 | saltfox | DanielsK5 | Lunatic Hermit
    Drawing group:
    "The fate of us all lies deep in the dark when time stands still at the Iron Hill."
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  51. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by jouzinka View Post
    Special update for Saltfox.
    I FEEL SO SPECIAL



    Aaanyway.... I love the hand You're so good at shading, jelllyyy

    Keep up the good work!


    ps. 'shemale hybrid' hahah i love it xD

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