Andrew Loomis Head Drawing Question

Join 500,000+ Artists

Its' free and it takes less than 10 seconds!

Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop

Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    72
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Andrew Loomis Head Drawing Question

    Hello,

    I think everyone knows Loomis and his famous ball aproach to construct the proportions of the head correctly. I studied the Loomis books before but after an unsuccessful portrait drawing I decided to go over it again and brought the books down from the shelf.

    Well, in short, I realized that, I am unable how to correctly get a slice from the sides of the sphere as Loomis does. Does anyone know how to get the slice from the sides of the sphere out perfectly? I believe the portion of the slice that you take out is crucial about correctly structuring the whole head. If the slice is narrow the face looks so wide if the slice is wide the face looks narrow. The slice must be taken out in a way that the face looks not narrow nor wide. Does anyone one know the trick? Thanks.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,750
    Thanks
    2,679
    Thanked 5,946 Times in 2,393 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    THe goal is to use it as a guide to show you the top front and side planes of the head. Even loomis doesn't use it exactly the same way every time. You have to use it in conjunction with observation or other theory like width to height measurements for accuracy. Once you learn proportion well enough you can forego all the guides and just draw the head the way you want to.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to dpaint For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Corpus Christi TX
    Posts
    264
    Thanks
    112
    Thanked 94 Times in 57 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    The loomis ball was one of the first tricks I learned. It is just one simplification upon many and as dpaint mentioned, it can be used in many different ways. It is important to know a lot of different ways of seeing an object (like a head) in order to be flexible and able to pick the methods that are best for what you are trying to do in whatever image you're using. The loomis ball is just a way of seeing it. It is a trick, not a method. Don't take it too seriously - learn the lesson it is teaching and move on.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Robotus For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    72
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Ok. thanks for the answers.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  8. #5
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Fredericksburg, VA US
    Posts
    1,127
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked 77 Times in 50 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Hahah dude i remember when studying Loomis, I had the exact same question. I guess I just always eyeballed it. Sometimes the results were pretty wonky because of where I would place that slice. Everything else seemed to hinge on that. In all reality the skull is more egg shaped I think..

    But one thing that helped me is to get a skull model to work from. Do a bunch of skull studies mixed w/ head construction and you'll figure your own way

    Cave House Studios - creative animation and video
    What the Sketchbook
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Mike Frank For This Useful Post:


  10. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Birth Place of the World, NYC
    Posts
    2,830
    Thanks
    2,631
    Thanked 1,044 Times in 681 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Umm, loomis is a guideline. Combined with observation, to equal what you are trying to do. He's not an end all be all because not all faces & heads are alike. He gives you a starting point and a reference.

    That's it.

    Last edited by OmenSpirits; December 2nd, 2010 at 12:46 AM.
    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
    -John Huston, Director
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to OmenSpirits For This Useful Post:


  12. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Eugene
    Posts
    40
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 19 Times in 15 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    From what I remember when I learned from that fine book is what everyone else is saying.

    The circle you make dose not have to be perfectly circular it can be oval or squarish as well. Might help you make the face shapes you want.

    Just remember that the general spacing rule for eyes. Eye space, eye, Eye space, eye, Eye space. Sure that rule can be broken but its one that you should follow. It will help you to know where to cut off the sides.

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  13. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to CrazedIvan For This Useful Post:


  14. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    72
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazedIvan View Post
    From what I remember when I learned from that fine book is what everyone else is saying.

    The circle you make dose not have to be perfectly circular it can be oval or squarish as well. Might help you make the face shapes you want.

    Just remember that the general spacing rule for eyes. Eye space, eye, Eye space, eye, Eye space. Sure that rule can be broken but its one that you should follow. It will help you to know where to cut off the sides.
    Thank you CrazedIvan,

    So do you know how to understand or how to measure the distance between the eyes when the head is in a 3/4 view? I know when you are looking the face directly from a 90 degrees angle, the space between each eye is one eye. But I think this rule changes when the head is in 3/4 view. It's always a pain for me to detect the correct distance between the eyes when the head is in a 3/4 view.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  15. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    It is still one eye width. The width of the space between the eyes is reduced by the same proportion as the eyes themselves, so the eyes are still an accurate measure.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  16. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    194
    Thanks
    111
    Thanked 43 Times in 28 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by 3igAnt View Post
    Thank you CrazedIvan,

    So do you know how to understand or how to measure the distance between the eyes when the head is in a 3/4 view? I know when you are looking the face directly from a 90 degrees angle, the space between each eye is one eye. But I think this rule changes when the head is in 3/4 view. It's always a pain for me to detect the correct distance between the eyes when the head is in a 3/4 view.
    Yeah, that's the part that always confuses me. More specifically, Loomis helps you locate where the eyes and mouth and etc will be placed by drawings the circle and browline and etc , but I don't understand how Loomis accounts for foreshortening (when the head is at an angel). Whenever I post a portrait here on conceptart, everyone complains that my eyes are too short, or my mouth too long

    Personally, I am not attached to Loomis and am interested in any other methods people might use, too.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  17. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    194
    Thanks
    111
    Thanked 43 Times in 28 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by fritzthefox View Post
    It is still one eye width. The width of the space between the eyes is reduced by the same proportion as the eyes themselves, so the eyes are still an accurate measure.
    No comprendo. Could you maybe demonstrate with a sketch, please?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  18. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Sorry, no time to upload a visual aid. Try to think of it this way:

    If you divide a ruler into thirds and turn it at an angle to your field of view, each third of the ruler is foreshortened equally, yes? The eyes rest on more or less the same plane on the face, so the same principal applies (although perspective modifies it slightly). Think of the ruler as representing both eyes and the space between them.

    Perspective and the rounding of the face mean this won't be a precise measure, but thinking of it that way might get you in the ballpark.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  19. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Corpus Christi TX
    Posts
    264
    Thanks
    112
    Thanked 94 Times in 57 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by fritzthefox View Post
    If you divide a ruler into thirds and turn it at an angle to your field of view, each third of the ruler is foreshortened equally, yes?
    No. It's not like it gets smaller equally, the proportion between the points change. Perspective distorts by distance.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  20. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I believe I mentioned the effects of perspective. So did Loomis.

    Any quick and dirty rule is going to come up short for accuracy.

    However, I think the ruler analogy makes the effects of perspective easier to visualize, so I stand by my statement.

    Your mileage may vary.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  21. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    72
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    A demonstration would be perfect. How do you decide how much foreshortening is needed ?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  22. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    72
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I think some of the information provided on this site would also be used in the perspective of face that would solve some misteries http://www.sketchwiki.com/

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  23. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    32
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Hello. I wanted to revive the thread with a silly question of mine. According to Loomis, about halfway up from the point between the brows to the top center of the head we get the hairline. Thus we see the forehead, the length of which is equal to the length of "nose" equal to the "chin". Now, how should I measure the length of a forehead (as a bend line or as an imaginary straight vertical line)? ...

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  24. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,379
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 457 Times in 322 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Measure the forehead across the sphere...

    Grinnikend door het leven...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

Members who have read this thread: 21

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • 424,149 Artists
  • 3,599,276 Artist Posts
  • 32,941 Sketchbooks
  • 54 New Art Jobs
Art Workshop Discount Inside
Register

Developed Actively by vBSocial.com
The Art Department
SpringOfSea's Sketchbook