References: 'Til when its tolerable? (very mild nudity)
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    References: 'Til when its tolerable? (very mild nudity)

    Sharing some pictures of Moebius (Jean Giraud) drawings with the respective references by their side. Always loved Gir works, but this kinda upsets me.

    What do you think, whats the limits to reference picture?

    Share your toughts.







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    I've seen a few better know artists produce pictures quite closely based on other commercial images. Royo, for example... http://d4.img.v4.skyrock.net/d4d/nim...s/35872722.jpg

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    I have no problem with any of those.


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    Royo is better known than Moebius? Tragic...IMHO.

    "Contrary to the belief of the layman, the essential of art is not to imitate nature, but under the guise of imitation to stir up excitement with pure plastic elements: measurements, directions, ornaments, lights, values, colors, substances, divided and organized according to the injunctions of natural laws. While so occupied, the artist never ceases to be subservient to nature, but instead of imitating the incidents in a paltry way, he imitates the laws."-Andre Lhote

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    Quote Originally Posted by dashinvaine View Post
    I've seen a few better know artists produce pictures quite closely based on other commercial images. Royo, for example... http://d4.img.v4.skyrock.net/d4d/nim...s/35872722.jpg

    Doesn't that takes away the imaginative skills of an artist? Its much easier to se a reference that close to imagine a pose and skillfully create one. It makes me feel bad that so reowned artists uses this kind of shortcut...

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    If reference was all it took to make amazing paintings, we'd all be out of a job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Bradley View Post
    If reference was all it took to make amazing paintings, we'd all be out of a job.

    I never suggested he's not a good artist. Its just probably not the most creative one. Of course, life models, photo references, they should be ok to study from, to learn, but to publish as your own artwork, idk.. I would respect uch more an artist that could do awesome stuff and crosshatch like Moebius without using references so similar to the picture...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLonesomeBlues View Post
    Doesn't that takes away the imaginative skills of an artist? Its much easier to se a reference that close to imagine a pose and skillfully create one. It makes me feel bad that so reowned artists uses this kind of shortcut...
    You're questioning Moebius' "imaginative skills?" SRSLY??!!!
    BTW, stickies are a good thing: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=123346


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    Quote Originally Posted by jpacer View Post
    Royo is better known than Moebius? Tragic...IMHO.
    Among those who don't know any better, evidently.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    You're questioning Moebius' "imaginative skills?" SRSLY??!!!
    BTW, stickies are a good thing: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=123346

    By the title i didn't thought it would analyse this aspect of using references...

    now, i'm not questioning any kind of Gir's work. I absolutely love his work. One of my favourite's of all time. But knowing his potential to creative work, i didn't thought that using refenreces like that was necessary...

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    References is necessary.

    If Rembrandt, Vermeer and Velasquez felt the need to use reference than I sure as shit do...(yes, a life model is reference, it's just a 3d expensive one..)

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    Agreed with you, Flake. But wouldn't the Ultimate Artist, the genius, one of a kind, able to do that amazingly work such as all the mentioned here, without any of these? Or better, just absorving that information when LEARNING ?

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    I'm speaking in a purely theoretical, maybe utopian way, btw.

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    History says no. Boogie (arguably the pinnacle of classical realists for most people) was knee deep in models and studies (reference) when he made those spiffy realistic paintings...

    Where does this idea that reference is bad come from?

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    Maybe from an self-sufficient artist ideal. Maybe i need to review my concept about that.

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    I'm putting together a 100+ edition of "abstracts" based closely on the body parts of young japanese porno queens (6 posted in the Finally Finished so far), and another series (western B&W) that will probably run 100+ based on the members pics in the CA looky-me/draw-me threads. So...exactly what kind of semi-retarded incompetent un-creative fuckin' feeble hack does that make me? A curious pubic hair wants to know...

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    Silence hack! You have referenced reality, thus you are disqualified!

    Who would base realist art on what reality looks like? Noob..

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    Wow, people here are kinda aggressive. I didn't mean to step on anybody toes in my first topic. Ilaekae, the same thing as I said for Moebius' works. Don't think it takes away from you an Artist title, just keeps you away from the self-sufficient artist. Can't we speak of they without taking it personally?

    Flake, your irony amazes me. Actually, it really does, i'm the number one fan of irony.

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    Blues, your mistake here is taking things too seriously, some of us have been poking fun at each other for 5 years now.

    It might read as more hostile than it is..

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    My bad then! I think i was taking too personally myself! I've always studied art by myself and never had the opportunity to talk with other artists about those concepts... got carried away. Here in Brazil its really hard to find people that are interested in such topics. Unfortunately..

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    Yup none of those bother me. You would be surprised at the number of artists that are quite heavily reference bound. I don't really see it as a problem too much, but certainly have an extra bit of respect for those that use no references. Check out Marko Djurdjevic. His book is stunning. And as a kid he thought no one used reference in their final paintings so trained himself to paint very realistically from imagination.

    And I laughed at "You're questioning Moebius' "imaginative skills?" SRSLY??!!!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Sonea View Post
    Yup none of those bother me. You would be surprised at the number of artists that are quite heavily reference bound. I don't really see it as a problem too much, but certainly have an extra bit of respect for those that use no references. Check out Marko Djurdjevic. His book is stunning. And as a kid he thought no one used reference in their final paintings so trained himself to paint very realistically from imagination.

    And I laughed at "You're questioning Moebius' "imaginative skills?" SRSLY??!!!"

    You've completly understood what i meant... oh, and Moebius had some fun with mushrooms and a long time in the desert, that gotta gives you a lot of WEIRD skills...

    gonna check Djurdjevic.

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    TLB', if this bunch was as aggressive as you make us out to be, we'd actually be sitting here challenging you to a "duel" instead of discussing this crap. No reference of any kind--just what you remember and can make up. I'll do it if you'll do it. We each pick three subjects--hopefully ones that no ref exists on anyway, and each of us do all six--in six different media. No ref of any kind. Dum dum dum dum-dum dum...




    Flake, I'm writing this in secret code so he can't see it...

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    oh, come on!

    It would be interesting, but i'm really new to arts, you're an ancient veteran. But i'm younger. :p


    Just saw you're abstract thread you mentioned, i believe its completely different from what I showed in the first post... But i bet Da Vinci would love to draw to some really weird porn movies, for sure.


    Gotta wonder which subject pictures are unfindable...

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    Don't be so crusty.

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    ...ain-CHIENT! He fuckin' called me AIN-CHIENT! I'm gonna kill the little bastard...











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    ...and KRUSTY! WTF!

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    Trying to spread some love. If thats the way that forum is I'm gonna LOVE IT! : DD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaekae View Post
    ...ain-CHIENT! He fuckin' called me AIN-CHIENT! I'm gonna kill the little bastard...









    shoot 'em now, shoot 'em now!



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