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  1. #1
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    legalize it! don't criticize it

    here in cali there is a prop on the ballet to legalize them funny cigarettes. right now polls are slightly in favor of it. But I'm not holding my breath and letting it out slowly just yet, because I'm sure that marginal lead is probably going to get stoned and go back to bed.

    Just encase you were wondering, this doesn't change law enforcements attitude. Wacky tobacky is still illegal under fedral law and Schwarzenegger just decriminalized personal possession of up to an ounce anyways.
    Last edited by Raoul Duke; October 19th, 2010 at 04:16 PM.


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  3. #2
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    Crack has more benefits than weed.

    You know what kind of services & products you can get?

    Ps3-$50!

    IPAD-$25!

    Weed ain't nothing but lazy inducing cabbage.
    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmenSpirits View Post
    Crack has more benefits than weed.

    You know what kind of services & products you can get?

    Ps3-$50!

    IPAD-$25!

    Weed ain't nothing but lazy inducing cabbage.


    So yeah.... im in rehab now, can I get those back?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert.B View Post
    So yeah.... im in rehab now, can I get those back?
    NO REFUNDS!
    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    I watched a documentary on cannabis once... I don't see what's wrong with using it for medical purposes(especially considering what other harmful medication is still being used as the norm), but for general use? nnnghhh. That really doesn't sit well with me, but I suppose it won't stop people using it whether it's illegal or otherwise.
    Last edited by Naidy; October 19th, 2010 at 04:15 PM.
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    A documentary made by some guy who lost family members to legal drugs. Definitely a good perspective to add to your repertoire if you plan on arguing for or against legalization/decriminalization.

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  12. #8
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    Why stop at legalizing cannabis? why not every other illegal drug?
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    Just give me the spice
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Kobryn View Post
    ...and reinitiate the prohibition on alcohol!
    From my cold, dead hands, sir. From my cold, dead hands.

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  17. #11
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    politically accepted or not is not going to dictate what i do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KarylGilbertson View Post
    Just give me the spice
    In bricks, or we pushin' kilos?
    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashback View Post
    Why stop at legalizing cannabis? why not every other illegal drug?
    It worked for portugal. Their drug usage rates dropped quite a bit.

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  22. #14
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    I'm mostly excited because I have friends in the "gardening business". Personally I don't have much time for spacing out on that delicious green shit. I think the only people who have a problem with it are jack asses that live in denial of it turning a competent human being into an all day space case. Just like how alcohol turns you into a raging maniac, but there is a time and place for it. You have to be a real douche not to know that. I think people with substance abuse problems advertise "just say no" more than any ad out there. So I do agree with flashback. Drugs are somewhat self regulating, but only somewhat.

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    I forgot yesterday I was gonna post this.



    Orgasms. Arnold's anti-drug.

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    A politician in our country said that the number one way to reduce state debt, reduce criminality massively and increase health in our country is by legalizing and regulating all drugs. And he has a point. Atleast, here we've seen that legalizing soft drugs has been a huge succes in the past 30 years.

    People didn't start to smoke more, actually, compared to the united states, united kingdom and france, who have a far harder drugs policy, people use way less drugs.
    Also the argument that people will start with hard drugs sooner when soft drugs is legal is completely untrue.

    From an economical perspective itt would be wise as well. The costs of crime in holland is around 31,5 billion euro each year. 15.75 billion is directly linked to drugs, and a huge amount of the other criminiality can be indirectly linked to drugs.

    Legalizing drugs would mean that you'd instantly save this amount of money, and even better, you can tax the drugs and make money by selling drugs which is one of the biggest markets in the world. A market that right now is in the hands of criminals.

    A big advantage of legalizing drugs aswell is that you can regulate the quality of the drugs, give better advice on drugs, and make sure that children under a certain age can't get the drugs which has as result that less people end up in hospital or die because of bad drugs.

    People will always use drugs, illegal or legal, so the best option simply is to make it legal and start to regulate it. It would make the world a much safer place.

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  27. #17
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    I wish I could vote
    I really hope that prop 19 passes but at the same I don't think that the US is politically ready for this. But even if it doesn't pass it started a lot of discussion about the subject and a lot of people became more open to the idea of legalization. Everybody who does their research knows that legalizing and taxing cannabis is the right thing to do. It's just a matter of time now.

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  29. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.Labruyere View Post
    A politician in our country said that the number one way to reduce state debt, reduce criminality massively and increase health in our country is by legalizing and regulating all drugs. And he has a point. Atleast, here we've seen that legalizing soft drugs has been a huge succes in the past 30 years.

    People didn't start to smoke more, actually, compared to the united states, united kingdom and france, who have a far harder drugs policy, people use way less drugs.
    Also the argument that people will start with hard drugs sooner when soft drugs is legal is completely untrue.

    From an economical perspective itt would be wise as well. The costs of crime in holland is around 31,5 billion euro each year. 15.75 billion is directly linked to drugs, and a huge amount of the other criminiality can be indirectly linked to drugs.

    Legalizing drugs would mean that you'd instantly save this amount of money, and even better, you can tax the drugs and make money by selling drugs which is one of the biggest markets in the world. A market that right now is in the hands of criminals.

    A big advantage of legalizing drugs aswell is that you can regulate the quality of the drugs, give better advice on drugs, and make sure that children under a certain age can't get the drugs which has as result that less people end up in hospital or die because of bad drugs.
    First off - why is it always expected that the government is going to raise, grow, and distribute the drugs? They totally do that now for tobacco, alcohol, and my moo-cows.

    Second sure removing all the drug cases from the courts and jails would be great money saver, but now you have tax evasion (not paying your sellers tax), racketeering, and the crime. Just because it is no longer illegal to possess doesn't mean the buyers have any more cash to pay for it.

    Third, how the hell is the government, over night mind you, inspect and regulate the quality of the drugs? Even if it was only pot then every Tom, Dick, and Harriet will be growing and selling out of their basement. Can the Feds regulate that? No - not even in the slightest.

    The more likely alternative is you have larger companies start farming the pot - say Phillip Morris. Less people to visit easier to regulate. sure... but with pot we know the small guy can grow a lot in a little place. Is that going to become illegal just so the government can limit how many people they need to inspect? If you do that then your blackmarket stays open.

    See - you can't have it both ways. The government cannot inspect every basement, every farm, or crop from the number of people who can and will grow. If you have it a free for all you then lose the high ground on: taxing (evasion is not a hard thing), regulated quality (can't inspect everyone - too many people), and distribution (Old Man Withers doesn't need to check an Id since he is only accountable for his bottom line). If the government controls who can and cannot grow - so they get the taxes and quality then it provides a blackmarket for growers to keep doing what they are doing thus undercutting all that fed work.

    Regarding distribution - exactly how is this going to work? Are you required to have the guy growing out of his basement to package it more than a baggie or a recycled pill bottle? How the hell does one control and insure this is going on? I can see phillip-morris packaging joints and selling in my local 7-11 but there is zero way to regulate the home grower.


    Quote Originally Posted by D.Labruyere View Post
    People will always use drugs, illegal or legal, so the best option simply is to make it legal and start to regulate it. It would make the world a much safer place.
    I really dislike this fallacy. Flip the word from drugs to murder... whoopsie!

    People will always murder each other, illegal or legal, so the best option simply is to make it legal and start to regulate it. It would make the world a much safer place.

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  31. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by modi123 View Post
    I really dislike this fallacy. Flip the word from drugs to murder... whoopsie!
    Except the use and trading of drugs isn't equivalent to murder. Talk about your fallacies. They are related in that they are both illegal. So flip the word from drugs to jaywalking, from drugs to illegal parking, from drugs to tax evasion. See how that works? By saying murder instead of any other crime you're making those in favor of legalization seem like lunatics. That might not be your intention but that exact argument isn't new. Been there, done that.

    There there's the slippery-slope. If we legalize drugs, next thing you know we'll legalize other crimes. Well, that reasoning goes both ways. If we make drugs illegal next thing you know we'll make insertchosenthingtomakeitseemcrazy illegal.

    As for your other arguments, the government regulates prescription medication. Prescription medications are drugs. They are regulated. It's not a stretch to regulate pot. By your reasoning alcohol should also be illegal because of the small amount of illegal distilleries that exist. Last time I checked, ABC stores aren't going out of business because bathtub brews are stealing their business.

    I'm not endorsing the use of pot or the idea of legalization and or decriminalization. I'm just checking your reasoning here.
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  33. #20
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    I'm from Canada, and in all honesty the rules are so lax up here that it's borderline legal anyways. As long as you have less than 3g on you then most of the time the cops just take it away. If you get a really big dick you get a ticket and a warning on your record nothing more. We don't have the problems of it being laced with other harder stuff, and for the most part harder stuff is pretty unheard of except for in big cities like Toronto etc... It can be found but most "drug dealers" can't get it/don't bother because there is no market for it.

    From what I've read it seems like legalizing it is a good idea. Less money in prosecuting petty crimes, more money through taxation, and I also don't think regulation would be that much on an issue. I have a friend who visits family in Amsterdam every summer and apparently its legal for everyone to have a few plants of their own in their house, which goes a long way in helping to regulate it. (not sure if this is true, just repeating what friend told me.)

    I hope California passes the bill, its been a long time coming and even though there are a lot of people against for completely bullshit reasons, if someone starts then eventually people see reason. Its not like every person who has a beer is a raging alcoholic, and not every person who smokes a joint sits in their basement all day and buys cheetos on their welfare.

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    Legalizing and criticizing are not mutually exclusive.

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  38. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by modi123 View Post

    Third, how the hell is the government, over night mind you, inspect and regulate the quality of the drugs? Even if it was only pot then every Tom, Dick, and Harriet will be growing and selling out of their basement. Can the Feds regulate that? No - not even in the slightest.

    The more likely alternative is you have larger companies start farming the pot - say Phillip Morris. Less people to visit easier to regulate. sure... but with pot we know the small guy can grow a lot in a little place. Is that going to become illegal just so the government can limit how many people they need to inspect? If you do that then your blackmarket stays open.

    See - you can't have it both ways. The government cannot inspect every basement, every farm, or crop from the number of people who can and will grow. If you have it a free for all you then lose the high ground on: taxing (evasion is not a hard thing), regulated quality (can't inspect everyone - too many people), and distribution (Old Man Withers doesn't need to check an Id since he is only accountable for his bottom line). If the government controls who can and cannot grow - so they get the taxes and quality then it provides a blackmarket for growers to keep doing what they are doing thus undercutting all that fed work.
    I reaalllly don't understand how this is any different from an industry like tobacco. The government can't regulate every single "Tom, Dick, and Harriet" from producing tobacco, either.

    It's not like it's any harder to grow tobacco than it is to grow weed. The difference is that it's just not profitable enough for people to spend the time to set up complex, electricity-draining grow operations for tobacco in their basements, like it is with pot.

    Guess why.
    Last edited by Oden; October 21st, 2010 at 12:13 AM.

  39. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by modi123 View Post





    I really dislike this fallacy. Flip the word from drugs to murder... whoopsie!
    Hell! If we re-legalised DUELING here in the US of A, we could probably cut the murder rate by quite a bit AND cut down on some of the more prissy/huffy lawsuits.

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  41. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckWeisel View Post
    Except the use and trading of drugs isn't equivalent to murder. Talk about your fallacies. They are related in that they are both illegal. So flip the word from drugs to jaywalking, from drugs to illegal parking, from drugs to tax evasion. See how that works? By saying murder instead of any other crime you're making those in favor of legalization seem like lunatics. That might not be your intention but that exact argument isn't new. Been there, done that.

    There there's the slippery-slope. If we legalize drugs, next thing you know we'll legalize other crimes. Well, that reasoning goes both ways. If we make drugs illegal next thing you know we'll make insertchosenthingtomakeitseemcrazy illegal.

    As for your other arguments, the government regulates prescription medication. Prescription medications are drugs. They are regulated. It's not a stretch to regulate pot. By your reasoning alcohol should also be illegal because of the small amount of illegal distilleries that exist. Last time I checked, ABC stores aren't going out of business because bathtub brews are stealing their business.

    I'm not endorsing the use of pot or the idea of legalization and or decriminalization. I'm just checking your reasoning here.
    This^^^^^^^

    The government will always find something to tax or make illegal, so why not make everything illegal so we don't have to worry! (go broken logic!)

    Also, what about morals, is it morally wrong to murder someone, the majority of people will say yes (as would I.) Is it morally wrong to smoke weed? I tend to think not, a large amount of people agree. Marijuana crimes are rarely violent, Marijuana smokers are rarely violent, impairment is generally less so then drinking, vaporization reduces carcinogens by a extremely large percentage making it healthier then many things we ingest on a daily basis, ( we should make all harmful foods and drinks (soda, burgers, etc) illegal since murder is illegal....) and the list goes on.

    Is it for everyone? no. Should people be subject to becoming "criminals" for using it, no. Legaliziation is not forcing upon the populace, it is simply making an minor indulgence acceptable for people who enjoy said indulgence.
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    Modi actually hit on an important point by comparing murder to drugs.

    The point is murder is done to other people, and so is everything else which is illegal*. This is why laws exist. Laws control society by creating compulsory standards of mutual respect between the members of a society.

    Drug laws are unique, in that they are a "crime" you can do to yourself, while simultaneously copping the punishment.

    Stop for a moment and ponder the inherent stupidity of that.

    In closing;


    *Disclaimer: I think technically suicide is illegal too. But that is a manufactured loophole designed to give police the authority to intervene. It's not like anyone is going to do jail time for attempted suicide.
    Last edited by karma militia; October 21st, 2010 at 06:09 AM.

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  44. #27
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    You can justify any decision made by a company, and you can point out it's flaws to make any in favour of it seem like mad lunatics. Standing from a neutral perspective (I live in Australia, so there's a bugger-all chance that anything is getting legalized here in the near future) , you have to consider both the implications of legalizing or banning something's effects on society, not on the person. Banning narcotics is a respectable idea, but the extent to which they enforce it is scary - it would be more effective to concentrate on education on their detrimental effects rather then simply enforcing all laws ten times over.

    From my opinion, they should legalize it in small doses. It's a recreational drug, and that does come with recreation, however placing a damn large restrictions and going from there. If it's done slowly to gauge the effect on society, politics, and every aspect you can think of, then I don't see any real problem with legalizing it. If you're banning it on the logic that it has no real benefit to society, then you may as well go ahead and ban alcohol and tobacco, too, and those are more likely going to happen after you pry them out of the cold, dead hands of their enthusiasts.

    So yeah, I think they should legalize it. I can't think of any real logical reason as to stop from doing so other then a bunch of fear-laced ideas about how detrimental it may be. If anything it's widespread knowledge that legalizing something reduces the lucrativeness of the market, so it's likely that it'll reduce the amount of people constantly trying to obtain it, and that idea is about as logical as the ideas saying that it'll increase.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lintire View Post
    a bunch of fear-laced ideas about how detrimental it may be.
    I wonder where that ideology originates from?
    'The fear of the unknown' encapsulates all fear. Everything you are afraid of is caused by a lack of information, making it the most efficient medium for control.*

    Here is an exercise in harm minimization, according to our government.
    "He just wanted to try something new"


    Y'know what i think the problem is? I think any good person smart enough to want to change the world for the better, is too knowlegable to think they can achieve it through a career in politics. This leaves the selfish, stupid and naive to run the country.


    *Before anyone tries to rebut that; don't confuse 'not wanting' with 'fear'.

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    This type of discussion will go on until there comes a time where all laws are scrapped and a single benchmark - that of common sense - is used to judge transgression. IMO a society cannot be truly civilised if it has laws, it can only seem that way. The problem with legalising drugs is that the implications are so complex they cannot be reasonably dealt with by the current norm of legislating against specific behaviour. In the same way as such a system is not efficient in combating crime as a whole. On the face of it, it appears absurd that there should be a law against inhaling the smoke from a burning leaf, yet I base that only on my own circumstances, and under the current justice system it probably needs to be kept that way.

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    I don't know, I don't like how slow minded and lazy weed makes people. Or maybe it's that more slow minded and lazy people use weed. (but I guess it's their choice)
    In certain places here in Canada we have terrible drug wars where innocent people are murdered because they got caught in the cross fire between two gangs. (lax drug laws aren't helping this either) If legalizing pot fixed that I would be all for it, but it wouldn't.
    Just taking pot on it's own though? Eh, what the hell. Legalize it. It's readily available as is and would be safer for use that way. Just don't smoke it near me.

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