Painter 12 development?

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    Painter 12 development?

    I was wondering if anyone knew anything about the state of Painter 12?

    Are they working to support multiple cpu cores?

    Windows 64? (Personally I thought this should have been the cornerstone of Painter 11)
    Linux?

    Would like to know what the longer term goals\ambitions are.


    Sigurd

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    no information on painter 12 features was published or leaked so far.

    Rob from Corel is posting on this board and painterfactory.com sometimes, but afaik, last time he didn't say much prior to release except a vague release date info.

    I wish they added both 64-bit and multithreading (I don't care much for linux support),
    but I'm afraid it's a new set of bugs, single new type of brushes and brand new outdated interface... again.

    on the fourth day of glitchmas my painter™ gave to me
    four random crashes, three broken brushes, two system hangups & one corrupted workspace
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    Would like to hear anything

    Truthfully, I love the program but if it doesn't gracefully adapt to 64bit and multiple cores there isn't much point.

    I will buy 12 in a minute with those features but I won't buy 11 without them.

    (That's for any Corel people who might ever read this.)


    I'd appreciate any sign of faith from Corel in this project. Being quiet here is really not reassuring.


    Sigurd

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    I was just talking to someone who beta for Corel and they seen nothing Painter.. They need to really get with it on the 64bit and multi-core systems. I have minor problems with 11 but I know how to deal that because as a computer tech and a artist and know how adjust for the issues 11 has...
    I just started to use Win 7 more and still hate it but well time movies on..
    I been using Painter since Painter 4 and it seem not matter who working with it its had its own little quirks but it never stop many from using it.

    CC

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    First rule of beta is, don't talk about beta Things are on the move, though, that much can be said.

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    the first thing i'm waiting is 3d videocard acceleration support, the same as in cs4, i hope it will reduce jagging lines without turning on super slow "drawing zoomed out views".
    the second it was said - 64 bit support.
    normal adjust tools with preview button without funny small window.

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    Thad be cool... but as Ikken says it'll be more bugs and brushes. Heck painter 11 is still buggy and forgets a random element of customization when the program is closed....and reopened again. And ze updated patches don't help much for me. I'd still buy corel 12 even if it's buggy.

    Last edited by sanakris; November 8th, 2010 at 12:54 PM. Reason: spelling error
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    Bust out the tanks and respirators just in case you're wasting your breath. To this day, I still refuse to buy 11 no matter what sales Corel fanaggles into my inbox. Painter X has become like my 3rd arm though, if 12 comes out and shows considerable advancements as far as memory management and multi-core usage without the bogged down performance of 11s free transform tool, I think we might have a winner. The Corel dudes need to go long for this one man, that 11 was a paper champion as far as I could see. We don't need to waste precious breath to cross our fingers for the team. Get to crossin guys....

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    I dont care about multi cores and 64 things, because i hate when computers get more sophisticated, they do the same with programs, so you cant feel computer speed, like photoshop cs4 and cs5, the videocard runs out like crazy and heats up alot, for me i will like corel 12 more light and easy to use, i dont want multicores and ram that will make the program more slow and bigger. I just wish a painter with no bugs, thats it and of course a rezisable panel of information so you can see the image in small view so you dont had to do to many far views.

    There are no such things as bad art, just tight deadlines.
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    The problem about not worrying about the hardware and all is that you are going to not going to be left out it's that you are going to be limiting your self .. I for year use what ever tech I could to work with and found my self but it really hurt me in doing any good work . Software for graphics like Painter i watch for year change to work with systems that were new and the latest and greatest but I got by with low res video and junk drawing tablets and or just driving with limited devices .. Hardware and the software are something no artist who has the skills to work on computer should ever limit them self .
    64 Systems and multi-core are the norm and we are going to been looking at bigger and more powerful system coming in the next few month . What see right is Photo shop trying turn into Zbrush Painter trying to get more real but is limited by it using tech that was single core and 32bit.. Computer tech and high tech security in which i also work in is demanding the move to 64 big and high memory with no lost of power but the cost is high and well we know what that mean in to days world of jobless and companies going bust.

    I was using Painter 4,5 and 6 and i think 7up till I got my first WACO and got demo for Painter 8 I loved it and saved and got it and as did i get 9 and 10 and yes I got 11 but that was given to me due to some who had got more than one copy at a trade show. I have paid a lot to stay current .. right now it takes me month to get any thing new as I just did a big upgrade in my hardware with new laptop. I found programs I have been sitting on as they would not work well on my desktops as most are not set up for graphics but for tech work like data recovery or network Pen testing.. but many of those systems as soon as i get money will be replaced with newer hardware as it will be need .. Quad cores and more are coming 1 and 2 TB memory is coming . Video cards with multi-core and quad core CPU's are coming with 4 to 6 GB of ram on them and you better bet that the graphics program better work with them .I been working with computer for over 33 yeas and doing are a bit longer , I stated my art work with the Amiga and Dpaint and few other (heck one of my instructors was Joel Hagen him self the master of Dpaint) I been ahead of the curve to some point till i had to stop College and find work in the tech support and security after getting married . I worked as Tech on the factory floor for Apple building systems that I could tell were going out to do graphic works but i could not even afford them ($3000 to $7000 system ) In the last 12 years we gone from 90mhz CPU to near 4 to 5 ghz per core on CPU and memory had just jumped into the hyper range as well. Corel need to wake up and spend the money to put the next gen of functional patches into Painter.. We need a 64 bit version we need better memory management. We need it to be able to use the power of the high end graphic cards and multi-core CPU's or Painter will drop.. it that simple there are too many programs that can and will take Painter's place if it lacks the function to work with new hardware and new OS in a64bit world..

    I not giving up on Painter its always been great program .. it changed hands a few time s but it grown each time .. not sure what Corel has in mind but I hope we see something soon..


    CC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elsevilla View Post
    I dont care about multi cores and 64 things, because i hate when computers get more sophisticated, they do the same with programs, so you cant feel computer speed, like photoshop cs4 and cs5, the videocard runs out like crazy and heats up alot. (... )
    I'm sorry, but it's year 2010 now, and multithreading has been around at least for five years
    painter has became a more stable package, but an EXTREMELY slow one too - if corel can't do the engine clean-up, they should split stuff between CPU's
    nobody is asking for 4, 6 or 8 core support - but a proper dual-core support and extending the RAM limit are doable, they need to be added there.

    on the fourth day of glitchmas my painter™ gave to me
    four random crashes, three broken brushes, two system hangups & one corrupted workspace
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    Yeah and the stupidest bugs could be removed too.

    For example, you can change how you see the brush strokes similar to Photoshop's. A bug that has been in Painter X is STILL in 11 and it's utterly retarded. If you try to change the thumbnail of the strokes your brush thumbs (the brush selector), it not only garbles them up when you return to them in a lot of cases it causes the program to crash. WHY?

    http://painterfactory.com/forums/t/558.aspx <-- this bug.

    Or how about this? http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=168672 Firefox is not new, why can't I chose a default browser. I don't want multiple browsers open. I hate IE. I should have a choice.

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    64-bit, multi-threading, GPU acceleration and a new modern interface from 2010 please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ikken View Post
    I'm sorry, but it's year 2010 now, and multithreading has been around at least for five years
    Exactly. We all would like for it to be lighter and faster, but we'll be trading off a lot of the innovation they have done over the years. I personally can wait until 2013, I just want them to get it right and tight. I would gladly pay for the next version that fixes what's not too hot right now instead of introducing completely new features. Hobbyists might not think this is serious biz, but a large percentage of us use Painter to get $$$ on a daily basis and really hate it when the lassotooldoubletapontheWacominstantcrash bug destroys any unsaved work in the blink of an eye....make me want to choke a cinderblock barehanded, I hate it.

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    I notice that Corel, at least in the UK, are selling Painter 11 at half price. I seem to remember Painter X being similarly priced not long before 11 was announced and released.

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    Yeah, I'm not in the mood for more brushes. I'm more for stability. Like no more crashing on guides and rulers. I mean the only "new" innovations would be good is being able to have a side app where you can see what is in your various paper/pattern/etc libraries Instead of having to load/unload/append (oh wait wrong library).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ikken View Post
    nobody is asking for 4, 6 or 8 core support
    Hold on there, pardner....

    I want Painter to heat up all 8 cores. I want to smell the burning rubber. I want to feel the wind in my hair and the bugs in my friggin' teeth, Baby!

    That's why I bought this 8-core monster in the first place.

    Last night I slept like a baby: I wore a diaper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigmadog View Post
    Hold on there, pardner....

    I want Painter to heat up all 8 cores. I want to smell the burning rubber. I want to feel the wind in my hair and the bugs in my friggin' teeth, Baby!

    That's why I bought this 8-core monster in the first place.
    well you certainly can smell burning tech, simply install painter 11 and forget the service pack - your CPU will heat insanely under poorly coded commands attacking it.
    I doubt painter will ever support 4+ core systems though.
    I doubt there's a even a need for that, but it should handle more ram. Should have less errors. Should have better colour mixing. Should have less retarded bells and whistles
    ( is anyone here really using multi-colour picking for round camelhair brushes? why did they throw that crap in? LOOK GUISE WHAT WEV GOT IN DA ENGINE? why do the brushes lag so much compared to painter 6 or 7, even painter 9? does anyone really use the retarded watercolour system from painter 7 and above? )

    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    Yeah, I'm not in the mood for more brushes. I'm more for stability. Like no more crashing on guides and rulers. I mean the only "new" innovations would be good is being able to have a side app where you can see what is in your various paper/pattern/etc libraries Instead of having to load/unload/append (oh wait wrong library).
    well there's a single new type of brushes I want to see in, actually - brushes that truly support transparency, and have both opacity and flow control, speaking in photoshop terms.
    And better jitter controls.

    I'd LOVE too see a side app you're talking about as well, I hate working with current paper libraries to be honest.

    on the fourth day of glitchmas my painter™ gave to me
    four random crashes, three broken brushes, two system hangups & one corrupted workspace
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikken View Post
    I'd LOVE too see a side app you're talking about as well, I hate working with current paper libraries to be honest.
    Yes the current Paper Library implementation does suck more than a Dyson Ball.

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    My wishlist:

    - they should rethink the interface, it's complicated and many panels are redundant. It needs a good and simple logic behind it, so that one can work with painter intuitively

    - painter needs to handle big files better

    - it should be faster

    - it has to be stable in all and every situations!!!!

    I don't need new features when the new program keeps the old bugs. I don't want new brushes, when the rest is poorly coded. I'm on Painter X and unless Painter XII will give me more stability and will handle big files better I don't need it.

    These are just the most basic requirements for a professional software.

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    Screen tearing is my biggest issue when I`m flipping the canvas horizontally. It`s been a problem since Painter 6. If Corel came out and said we have re-wrote Painter 12 from the ground up with no imported code; I would buy it.

    But I know that won`t happen. They have been just piling on new features on the same old code they bought from Metacreations or Fractal or whoever created the original brush engine.

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    The screen tearing as far as I know is a issue of Painter X and maybe Painter 11? Doesn't happen in Painter 6.1 for instance, I've tried the demo of Painter X at the time on two computers and it happened on both, I couldn't stand it, had to uninstall it pronto despite really liking the RealBristles tech.

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    The sad thing is, when I want to create a list of things I'd like to see addressed in Painter 12, it's essentially the same list as for Painter 11.

    I don't understand why Corel are not using forums such as these to gather input from the trenches. It's a fundamental mistake for Software Developers to think they know best (and I am a Software Developer!). I appreciate that they do consult a number of artists during the development phase, but there's still a rich vein of information outside of that limited group.

    For me, the most important thing is for Painter to focus on what it's good at. It is still the best digital painting application, despite the slow progress in its capabilities.

    At the very least Painter 11 needs to be stable in both a 64-bit and 32-bit environment. That includes fixing the serious issues currently in the program which are repeatedly reported by the communities and have been over the last few versions. This in itself should help address many of the performance issues.

    I think some updating of the UI would be welcome, but not as essential as the above.

    Any new version needs to add some features that have a wow factor. That's just the nature of the beast... Corel can't just fix the problems in Painter 11 and call it 12. But I hope these wizzy new features are actually useful to artists who need to get a job done - not just eye candy for marketing blurb.

    An example for me personally would be a multiple perspective grid. We have a single one which is handy, but a multiple one would be extremely useful to me.

    I hope Corel have decided what Painter is really good at, and the market they're going for and are focussed on that.

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    curtmantle, the do read forums and they have professional 2d artists in their beta team.
    but I agree with you, almost the most common bugs and asks were already mentioned but still they are present in latest version. the good thing is that from 11 version they started to hear what artists are really wanting from the program and slowly began to improve it in a good way. i hope in 12 the positive tendency will still present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ikken View Post
    I'm sorry, but it's year 2010 now, and multithreading has been around at least for five years
    painter has became a more stable package, but an EXTREMELY slow one too - if corel can't do the engine clean-up, they should split stuff between CPU's
    nobody is asking for 4, 6 or 8 core support - but a proper dual-core support and extending the RAM limit are doable, they need to be added there.
    Hey Ikken, got you point, but its cs5 faster than cs3? i dont think so, using the latest tecnology with the newest hardwares it only makes them to work as the same speed like old versions. People love sai software, and doesnt use multicores, using multicores its no warranty for making a fast software, rotating its a hell in cs5 makes the brushes to lag a lot on my multicore computer, even with 8 gigs of ram, and painter nails it with not even making my computer to produce weird over heating sounds.


    Forget about the power, i just want a better improved customizable workspace and bugs free, that will make you work faster, than having 32 gigs of ram and 8 processors at the same time.

    There are no such things as bad art, just tight deadlines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCorsair View Post
    The problem about not worrying about the hardware and all is that you are going to not going to be left out it's that you are going to be limiting your self .. I for year use what ever tech I could to work with and found my self but it really hurt me in doing any good work . Software for graphics like Painter i watch for year change to work with systems that were new and the latest and greatest but I got by with low res video and junk drawing tablets and or just driving with limited devices .. Hardware and the software are something no artist who has the skills to work on computer should ever limit them self .
    64 Systems and multi-core are the norm and we are going to been looking at bigger and more powerful system coming in the next few month . What see right is Photo shop trying turn into Zbrush Painter trying to get more real but is limited by it using tech that was single core and 32bit.. Computer tech and high tech security in which i also work in is demanding the move to 64 big and high memory with no lost of power but the cost is high and well we know what that mean in to days world of jobless and companies going bust.

    I was using Painter 4,5 and 6 and i think 7up till I got my first WACO and got demo for Painter 8 I loved it and saved and got it and as did i get 9 and 10 and yes I got 11 but that was given to me due to some who had got more than one copy at a trade show. I have paid a lot to stay current .. right now it takes me month to get any thing new as I just did a big upgrade in my hardware with new laptop. I found programs I have been sitting on as they would not work well on my desktops as most are not set up for graphics but for tech work like data recovery or network Pen testing.. but many of those systems as soon as i get money will be replaced with newer hardware as it will be need .. Quad cores and more are coming 1 and 2 TB memory is coming . Video cards with multi-core and quad core CPU's are coming with 4 to 6 GB of ram on them and you better bet that the graphics program better work with them .I been working with computer for over 33 yeas and doing are a bit longer , I stated my art work with the Amiga and Dpaint and few other (heck one of my instructors was Joel Hagen him self the master of Dpaint) I been ahead of the curve to some point till i had to stop College and find work in the tech support and security after getting married . I worked as Tech on the factory floor for Apple building systems that I could tell were going out to do graphic works but i could not even afford them ($3000 to $7000 system ) In the last 12 years we gone from 90mhz CPU to near 4 to 5 ghz per core on CPU and memory had just jumped into the hyper range as well. Corel need to wake up and spend the money to put the next gen of functional patches into Painter.. We need a 64 bit version we need better memory management. We need it to be able to use the power of the high end graphic cards and multi-core CPU's or Painter will drop.. it that simple there are too many programs that can and will take Painter's place if it lacks the function to work with new hardware and new OS in a64bit world..

    I not giving up on Painter its always been great program .. it changed hands a few time s but it grown each time .. not sure what Corel has in mind but I hope we see something soon..


    CC
    nice point of view, but i dont think another software will take painters place yet, i tought cs5 was the doom to painter, but their blending its not good at all.

    There are no such things as bad art, just tight deadlines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    Yeah and the stupidest bugs could be removed too.

    For example, you can change how you see the brush strokes similar to Photoshop's. A bug that has been in Painter X is STILL in 11 and it's utterly retarded. If you try to change the thumbnail of the strokes your brush thumbs (the brush selector), it not only garbles them up when you return to them in a lot of cases it causes the program to crash. WHY?

    http://painterfactory.com/forums/t/558.aspx <-- this bug.

    Or how about this? http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=168672 Firefox is not new, why can't I chose a default browser. I don't want multiple browsers open. I hate IE. I should have a choice.

    Hey arshes wouldnt will be nice, if they also add a preview thumbnail for psd files you create in painter like the riff, because saving in riff files makes it so unstable, that i do most of them in psd, but because i cant see the preview, dont know whats inside it most of the times.

    Last edited by Arshes Nei; October 21st, 2010 at 02:45 PM.
    There are no such things as bad art, just tight deadlines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elsevilla View Post
    Hey Ikken, got you point, but its cs5 faster than cs3? i dont think so, using the latest tecnology with the newest hardwares it only makes them to work as the same speed like old versions.
    Ugh... it actually IS faster. It is as stable as cs3 too. It has support for hell lot of ram.
    It's geared towards people of a TONN of different professions - DTP people, photographers, video editors, 3D artists, AND painters.
    Photoshop has been really stubborn on painter-specific features, but cs5 is really good in that sense.
    Improvements that adobe have between cs3 (2007) and cs5 (2010) are enough for painter 6 - painter 16 release.
    and most of that stuff is working.

    Adobe actually takes time to contact people who've been submitting bug-reports.

    They listen to the users. (Where did the painter wishlist from cgtalk.com go? Did corel listen to any of suggestions listed? Like ever?)

    People love sai software, and doesnt use multicores, using multicores its no warranty for making a fast software, rotating its a hell in cs5 makes the brushes to lag a lot on my multicore computer, even with 8 gigs of ram, and painter nails it with not even making my computer to produce weird over heating sounds.
    I suppose it's your videocard issue than, canvas rotation is fine for me in cs5 (it was SLOW in cs4, but it got much better)
    wet brushes can get slow when they hit 200-250 px and higher mark with extra scattering and stuff, regular PS brushes are also fine for me.
    Photoshop's "sample current layer" option for the eye-dropper is priceless. (artrage 3,0 has it too, cough-cough)

    Using multi-cores is by no means a guarantee of fast perfomance - if the code is f-d up and coders are stupid, speading the stuff between one or twelve cores won't make sense (except stupid coders won't be able to multithread sutff like at all)
    I have no idea why you dislike the whole concept of using hardware possibilities more extensively, and why you're stubborn on that.


    Forget about the power, i just want a better improved customizable workspace and bugs free, that will make you work faster, than having 32 gigs of ram and 8 processors at the same time.
    I have no idea how a stable bug-free application from 1999 can be better than a stable bug-free and up-to date application.
    Maybe you will love your 8 gigs of ram more if painter starts supporting them one day.

    on the fourth day of glitchmas my painter™ gave to me
    four random crashes, three broken brushes, two system hangups & one corrupted workspace
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  33. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elsevilla View Post
    Hey arshes wouldnt will be nice, if they also add a preview thumbnail for psd files you create in painter like the riff, because saving in riff files makes it so unstable, that i do most of them in psd, but because i cant see the preview, dont know whats inside it most of the times.
    Why? PSD files are Adobe and well Adobe should do that.

    Just because Corel "plays nice" with Adobe, it doesn't mean they should do the work for them

    I really wish the photopainting stuff was a component install instead of tacked on. Not much I can do about it but wish.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't totally dismiss photo painting and I can see the uses, but the more it was in the program the worse the bugs got for me.

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    I think there's a little misunderstanding - PSD files created (or at least edited) in photoshop are previewable, like here:
    Painter 12 development?
    the first few images are done in painter x only, the last one was edited in PS cs3, and it's the only one with a thumbnail
    so it's something corel should consider adding.

    on the fourth day of glitchmas my painter™ gave to me
    four random crashes, three broken brushes, two system hangups & one corrupted workspace
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