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    So maybe lack of body hair is an artist shortcut? I'd imagine it is kind of a pain to draw/paint. Also, groinal carpets would present a rather prominent dark shape compositionally that might break lines or otherwise create a visual 'distraction'. Although, pubic hair seems to crop up more in life drawing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Spot View Post
    These days, to please certain men, women will shave their pubes in all sorts of shapes or off completely. While you may think it may be more aesthetically pleasing, I wonder how many men would feel about shaving their pubes as part of their daily routine.
    This is funny, considering I have to shave my face almost every day or my girl friends (not girlfriends...they're usually even worse) make fun of my beard. Not too many girls are fans of beards these days, especially when they have to kiss you.

    To be honest, body modification and trying to fit an ideal has been a part of human culture for a long long time. So, standards change? They'll change again. The "good ol' days" will come around again, and we'll all be happily plump and hairy. (Of course despite fashion tending towards the slender, the average person is getting fatter anyways)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnDirtyApe View Post

    The hairless thing looks pre-pubescent, [...].
    This.

    People are obsessed with youth these days.

    It goes with men, too. As a hairy man, I can tell you from experience that hair is not fashionable, on any part of the body. Most women think it's "gross".

    But hairlessness is just that, a fashion. Fashions change, and hair will make a come back.

    Personally, I love women with hair. Even leg and armpit hair can be attractive. I like it for the same reasons I like head hair.

    As far as art is concerned, hairlessness can be symbolic of youth. Otherwise, I see no reason to shun hair.

    Last edited by Gislebertus; September 27th, 2010 at 09:15 PM.
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    I know i am fucking R.O.B.O.T. but "I fucking love pubes",. Most of my girl friend said that they feel like it is a hygiene problem if they don't shave them. It is a lie and i know it, so '70 porn got my vote, always

    M

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    I know someone that shaves his pubes...as was told to me why...it's for her oral pleasure..all I'm saying...

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    great topic,next up,foreskin.

    Hah.

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    What an artsy question!

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    Cut, uncut, shaven or full grown jungle. As long as you love her/him...does it really matter?

    Btw, since when is discussing pubic hair part of an ART discussion? Black Spot, you crack me up. xD

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    Actually, pubic hair is a valid art topic. Did you ever notice how many artists don't quite know where it belongs exactly? Or do a period piece (no pun intended) and have a pube shaped like Pokemon on a 1890's nude? And let's not forget the possibilities in basket weaving alone...

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    Pfeh, I grew up with hippies, so I'm all in favor of hair. Totally hairless skin just feels... kinda... creepy.

    Back on the art topic (What? Art?) I suppose part of the paint-everyone-hairless thing came from taking classical sculpture as the ideal and trying to make paintings of ideal nymphs and whatnot look like classical sculpture... which generally doesn't have a lot of hair (after all, carving hair is a bitch.) (Don't remember if the Greeks were into shaving, too... they might have been.)

    Bah. This is one of the reasons I like Klimt. There's a guy who's not afraid of pubes! Bright red pubes, to boot. The world needs more of this!

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    You just reminded me of what his last name sounds like...

    Here's an interesting blog/history of Klimt from Illustration Art: http://illustrationart.blogspot.com/...e-part-13.html

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    Klimt to me in those paintings has made the pubic hair a natural part of her and gorgeous. When I've seen art depicted a Bazillian, it just doesn't look right, like some one is trying too hard to be edgy (not you Karyl) and yes I have seen it painted way too high.


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    I can't believe a discussion of pubic hair on an art forum has made it this far without anybody bringing up John Ruskin!
    Ruskin's sexuality has led to much speculation and critical comment. His one marriage, to Effie Gray, was annulled after six years because of non-consummation. His wife, in a letter to her parents, claimed that he found her "person" (meaning her body) repugnant. "He alleged various reasons, hatred to children, religious motives, a desire to preserve my beauty, and finally this last year he told me his true reason... that he had imagined women were quite different to what he saw I was, and that the reason he did not make me his Wife was because he was disgusted with my person the first evening 10th April." Ruskin confirmed this in his statement to his lawyer during the annulment proceedings. "It may be thought strange that I could abstain from a woman who to most people was so attractive. But though her face was beautiful, her person was not formed to excite passion. On the contrary, there were certain circumstances in her person which completely checked it."[18]

    The cause of this mysterious "disgust" has led to much speculation. Ruskin's biographer, Mary Lutyens, suggested that he rejected Effie because he was horrified by the sight of her pubic hair. Lutyens argued that Ruskin must have known the female form only through Greek statues and paintings of the nude lacking pubic hair and found the reality shocking.[19] This speculation has been repeated by later biographers and essayists and it is now something that "everyone knows" about Ruskin.[20] However, Peter Fuller in his book Theoria: Art and the Absence of Grace writes, "It has been said that he was frightened on the wedding night by the sight of his wife's pubic hair; more probably, he was perturbed by her menstrual blood.".[21] Ruskin's biographers Tim Hilton and John Batchelor also take the view that menstruation is the more likely explanation, though Batchelor also suggests that body-odour may have been the problem.
    Or, for that matter, Courbet's Origin of the World.


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    Ah yes, Ruskin vs. Pubic Hair, how could we have left that out...

    Though if you ask me I'd bet the real reason for Ruskin's "disgust" is probably that his underage love-interest had, er, grown up. (This is the guy who was hooked on Kate Greenaway's "girlies" after all...)

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    In 1848, he married Effie Gray, for whom he wrote the early fantasy novel The King of the Golden River. Their marriage was notoriously unhappy, eventually being annulled in 1854 on grounds of his "incurable impotency,"[3] a charge Ruskin later disputed, even going so far as to offer to prove his virility at the court's request[4]
    I am genuinely curious as to how that would have worked..

    How does one prove such a thing in a court of law in 19th century England?

    Character witnesses? Illegitimate children? Masturbating furiously at a Jury while singing "God Save the Queen"??

    We'll never know.

    Last edited by Flake; September 29th, 2010 at 10:21 AM.
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    Flake, now you've gotten ME curious about that as well... I wonder would they have just had him have sex right there and then to prove it? Strange thought.

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    WOW, I think without in an art sorta way looks kind of alien. Its a hard thing to place though

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    Maybe she was a hermaphrodite?

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    I shave mine. Makes my Johnson look bigger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovian M View Post
    I shave mine. Makes my Johnson look bigger.
    That's it, pal! COOL!

    Anyway, chicks with pubic hair are hot, as long as it doesn't smell and are trimmed a bit so they don't grow all the way to the Pectineus or Adductor Longus area.

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    I don't get why some people say it's "creepy" when girls shave, some girls prefer that men shave their beards and that is "unnatural" too, men have beards, a man without beard is "creepy" too because he looks like a prepubescent boy? bah!, nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovian M View Post
    I shave mine. Makes my Johnson look bigger.
    By that reasoning, every grown woman depicted without pubic hair is a Slack Alice.

    My dad had a beard, so I have never considered male facial hair a problem. Actually my husband is a smooth man - only needs to shave once a week.

    I remember a That Life episode where and elderly lady expressed, "I like a hairy chest - something to get my teeth into."

    Male pubes are rarely shown in fine art as the penis is not shown much (unless it's a study) more because it doesn't help the flow of lines. This I think is a shame as I consider the human body perfect with all its imperfections. If you're going to paint a human, celebrate it - unless of course you're Ruskin.


    I didn't think it was possible to be called an artist when you have nothing to say. It's like being a writer who publishes individual words as books and expects to be praised for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Saksida View Post
    a man without beard is "creepy" too because he looks like a prepubescent boy? .

    "There are two kinds of people in this world that go around beardless—boys and women—and I am neither one." -Greek saying

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    Something I noticed is that many figure models, male and female, shave theirs... Very interesting! Although I guess it helps to see the form in that area or something.

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    From Boing Biong:
    The Journal of Sexual Medicine recently published the results of a large Internet survey aimed at finding out how American women wear their pubic hair, and whether choice of down-there hair style has any correlation to other factors, like sexual orientation or enjoyment of sex.

    Couple of interesting things this survey turned up:

    •Most of us aren't getting rid of it completely.

    •The ladies who do take it all off report a higher level of positive genital self-image than those who don't. That's pretty interesting, since, in some circles, the full monty is kind of regarded as antithetical to liking your vulva—something young women only do because porn-addicted young men have been trained to expect it. This data could be evidence to counter that perception.

    But, on the other hand, it might not. The trouble with surveys is that we don't necessarily know what's going on behind the answers. Because a bare hoo-ha is also associated with younger women, it might just mean that younger generations have avoided some of the genitals-are-nasty cultural baggage of their elders. The data could also mean that these women really don't like their bodies with hair and, thus, have come to associate Brazilian waxes with a more positive self-image. And, of course, survey results are subjective. One woman's "I really super dig my vulva!" can be equal to another woman's, "Yeah, I'm pretty happy with it." Maybe younger women are just more enthusiastic.



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    All I'm gonna say is that I'm generally in favour of hair having had a great many bad experiences with stubble. I suspect that men with stubbly chests were used in carpentry before sandpaper was invented.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Saksida View Post
    I don't get why some people say it's "creepy" when girls shave, some girls prefer that men shave their beards and that is "unnatural" too, men have beards, a man without beard is "creepy" too because he looks like a prepubescent boy? bah!, nonsense.
    I shaved my beard off just the other day and I felt so young again! Then it grew back.

    I always keep it somewhat trimmed anyways. Neck beards can look rather silly.

    Anyways, on the art side of this discussion, it's difficult or even impossible to make pubes look good on some manga style characters with "hair helmets". I think it's because the hair helmet establishes a certain hair solidity. The pubes can't really follow up on this, because you get a rather strange looking solid fur piece. Individually drawn hair will look inconsistent and too realistic, and it's a pain to keep track of when animating. You can also avoid lines altogether, but then it might look like some kind of paint stroke or tribal mark.

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    Bring back 70's style!

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    This thread amuses me.

    I guess I agree with idoru and Diarum combined. Pubic hair is seen as explicit, along with seeming unladylike. It's a natural part of life, but so are "ugly" and "fat" chicks, and you seem to see less of them in art as well.

    So I guess that it also appeals to the idea of defaults. "Hairless" is the default cultural portrayal of women's pubic regions. Anything that deviates from that becomes a cultural statement, and therefore a distraction.

    And like someone else was saying, it might just be that it's harder to draw.

    These are my theories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulphur View Post
    Quite suprised this thread isnt evenly split!
    I'm the one who's gonna waltz in and say all the stuff you disagree with.

    Women - Eyebrows, eyelashes, head hair. Should be the only hair you have. The bikini line can be a little stubbly or well-kempt, I suppose, but its not really as attractive or practical (surely I don't need to go into details there >.>) Nothing is less sexy than brushing past that unkempt arm of yours, or having to stare at that moustache when you talk. Smooth = hot. Doesn't mean you are a child - you have boobies, curves and confidence to show you are a 'real' woman.

    Men - I'm not as certain with my opinions on male hair, since sometimes it depends on other things. Eg. some people need facial hair to look like a dude.
    Hairy torsos aren't my thing because i'd rather see/feel those muscles. Legs and arms don't matter either way aslong as you don't look like a bear. As for pubes, I think it can be either way. But I think a bit of hair looks a bit more masculine.
    Black Spot mentioned something about how dudes wouldn't like to shave everyday. Well I know more than a few guys who spend their days in the shower keeping that stuff tame.
    Different strokes for different folks.

    And naw, I don't think this because of 'porn obsessed males'. I have my reasons. But raging about guys and their porn just makes you sound like a feminist/white knight.
    This is an age thing; I've been in life drawing classes for thirty years and only in the last 7 to 10 years have the models been shaven male and female alike and only the younger ones under 25. It's definitely is an internet porn related thing; before that no one knew how other people were keeping theirs trimmed. 15 years ago you didn't have access to the info, you couldn't see it on your computer at home because there wasn't enough bandwidth.
    Also if you go back 15 years and look at magazines like playboy all of the women were not shaved. Centerfolds

    Last edited by dpaint; October 9th, 2010 at 12:16 PM.
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