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  1. #1
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    Studio Ghibli in Trouble

    Apparently so.

    Cut Magazine has an interview with Hayao Miyazaki where the venerable animator confesses that if their upcoming Arietty the Borrower doesn’t do well in the box office, plans are already in place to shut down Studio Ghibli.

    Suzuki-san is making a dissolution program for Ghibli. No joke, we talked about it the other day. For example, Ghibli should be able to continue with about five staff members as a copyright management company even if we smash the studio. So, Ghibli can say ‘We stop film production. Goodbye’. I do not have to be there.
    Not a good time for Japanese cartoons, is it?


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  3. #2
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    wait. you mean Ghibli hasn't been doing well at the box office? since when? i thought everyone, at least everyone in japan, was a Miyazaki fan?

    Yeah, that would really suck for anime. But maybe Miyazaki and the rest of Ghibli studio would keep working on solo projects?

    Spirited away is the best anime EVA, btw

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    I blame all the pirates who just download their movies instead of buying them!!!!!!!

    OK, I blame the really horrible voice actors who butcher their movies and drive people to want to download them and the horribly slow pipeline that brings the movies overseas....

    But still, I blame the pirates..!!
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    Umm, I really haven't seen that many terrible dubs in recent years. Definitely not the Miyazaki ones. ....that's just such a lame excuse these days by people still stuck up the butt when a lot of them come with a subtitled version on DVD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    Umm, I really haven't seen that many terrible dubs in recent years. Definitely not the Miyazaki ones. ....that's just such a lame excuse these days by people still stuck up the butt when a lot of them come with a subtitled version on DVD.
    Anything being show on USA Television, except Full metal Alchemist, has the WORST dubbing on the planet!
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    Cowboy Bebop?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotime View Post
    Cowboy Bebop?
    Granted I'll give you that one and there's another I forget (fugi yugi somethingorother). But that's one of the older ones when they took the time and made the dubbing fit the characters.
    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    Not really, it's subjective. I've seen the shows on DVD have a subtitled version too. Now we can argue about the prices, but then we're still getting cheaper than Japan. That's why there was a lot of fighting with the old school owners in Japan.

    Good example was Anime Village which was Bandai in the US distributing anime. The Japanese ended up importing from them because even with tariff and fees it was still cheaper than getting it in their own country. Eventually that rift caused them to shut down.

    There's a real entitlement complex by its "fans" when it comes to anime where they make any excuse to pirate the goods.

    That's why these companies will end up dying. "Gee that manga isn't coming in as fast as I want it" even though these companies have to space it out because it's not the only title they're releasing and only have limited shelf space to put on the shelf. That's not good enough for the "anime fan" It wasn't even good enough when peope were doing just script translations and told the fans to go buy the tankubon or phone book compilations themselves. Now it has to be scanned and translated and posted.

    What do I hear then? "Well budget is tight and I'll buy it later" and pretty much never happens until the companies go under. :/

    Because of Japan's economy, this was their thriving market, but its fans stomped on and are killing it too.

    By the way guys, it was DISNEY that saved Ghibli last time. When Disney made the deal it actually LOWERED the price of Ghibli's stuff in Japan. That actually helped sales.

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    And that brings us back to the pirates!!

    Studio Ghibli in Trouble
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    It's strange to think of a powerhouse like Ghibli facing closure. I'm curious to know what its financials have looked like for the last few years, as I'm sure this isn't a new development. I imagine Japan has a lot more coverage of their recent successes and failings than the US media does.

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    Well Miyazaki can't run the show forever. I do know he and his son had difference of opinions. For example, wonder how many of you know about the EarthSea anime produced?

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    I knew of it, but the Earth Sea series wasn't all that interesting to me, so I haven't been in any rush to see Ghibli's take on it. I'm sure my opinion's colored by how dull the SciFi miniseries was (I've never read the novels) however.

    I did see Ponyo however. To me it was not his finest work, or even very good. And every time Ponyo's father came on screen I kept waiting for him to walk up to Sōsuke and say "I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    Well Miyazaki can't run the show forever. I do know he and his son had difference of opinions. For example, wonder how many of you know about the EarthSea anime produced?
    If you haven't seen it, don't. It's so bad it might break your heart.
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  17. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    For example, wonder how many of you know about the EarthSea anime produced?
    I'm still washing my eyes with bleach after watching that several years ago.

    Was Arrietty a success in Japan, at least? I'll watch it either way but I wonder if it had anything to do with how it was received in their home country.

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    Hmm..doesn't kind of sound like a bluff to anyone else? A way to get press to the US and Europe fans so they watch it in the theater

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    It probably hurt them when Miyazaki left to start studio 4c and took allot of talent with him. I could have my facts wrong, but that wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened. No talent, no product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Chow View Post
    I'm still washing my eyes with bleach after watching that several years ago.

    Was Arrietty a success in Japan, at least? I'll watch it either way but I wonder if it had anything to do with how it was received in their home country.
    EarthSea was done by the Son.. I will say That I do not think the Studios is due to as much as sales as that I hearing Disney didn't pay some of the money the own for the licenses but that is just small rumor from ex-Disney worker. Miyazaki son is great artist and his version of Erathsea was better than SciFi channel that would not let Disney bring in Erathsea to the us for some time. The animation in ES was great the story was slow but I found it very good. but it was never shown in the theaters her as many of the Miyazaki Anime should be . Disney has botched the showing of many of the Miyazaki title in the US and the Dubbing and voice actor choices have been sub par. And yes we are seeing more people steal then buy titles .. For some time I worked with many convention and made friend with many of the artist and they would send me titles I have ask them not to I rather buy them if I was not doing some work that let me to be give a title . I worked with one company doing Convention work that paid me with some titles but that was trad for real work not some bootlegging. They held or hold the US titles right and have the right to give some of the product away. I know many people in the Anime industry that feel the fans have grown spoiled and seem to demand a lot for free by me saying no to free title it made them take step back as how to promote titles. this can be good and bad as many people who promote titles need some tile of free to let as the number of titles even when low at this time is a bit costly to get any copy to screen for review.

    I been away from many convention for a few years but at one time I could make call to any Anime companies in the use and get screener or full copy for showing at club meeting. Some time back I stopped going to the convention as I see them as fun but there are too many ..Anime cons were there to show off the new titles from Japan but now with in a few hours of airing or coming out in the theaters a title is online and all over the net . If Miyazaki is in a fight to keep the studio alive think of what will happen if we lose this great artist work? I think it is up to many Fans to help fight the stealing of titles and to help fight to keep the studio open and the great artist there in a job.. I know I am looking at what is going on in the Anime fandom I see too many convention I see the internet as good and evil for Anime artist . WE need to re-structure the fans to understand the Idea of free could mean no more.. The fan subbers may stop posting a title but the fan who downloads it will keep trading it till the get yelled at or they see no demand for it. WE lost 3 or 4 of the Japan and US companies in the last 2 to 3 years and we will lose more it can not be helped the money around the world for investments is getting lower each day .. Many feel just sitting back and waiting is better than investments in some like Miyazaki.. ya sound crazy but that's how bad it is... I think as artist and as fans we need to really get other fans to help in stopping the downloading of titles for free.. but the darn title its not that costly.. heck I picked Steamboy Director cut at a BigLot store new in the box for $4 hunt around there are deal.. and ton of good reason to not download a title like keep Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli alive and open for many many years to come.

    Sorry for rambling but this is a big deal to me as fan who has worked so hard to bring Anime as main stream to the US and to see it picked away like dead whale body on a beach is very disturbing to me .. I did not want to to see my love of Anime kill it as this is how I feel some times..

    CC
    Last edited by CCorsair; August 25th, 2010 at 02:49 PM.

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    THis is the worst news i've heard all day. I pray that Gibli pulls through. I understand they've had some trouble hitting gold since Howl, but surely there must be some revenue from their previous hits/merchandise to tide them over?
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    First we lose Satoshi Kon, now we lose Studio Ghibli!? Nooooooooooooooo!

    Not that I've kept up with what's been happening recently with Ghibli - is Miyazaki senior still involved with them at all? If not, that could explain the slump, I dunno...

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    I haven't seen Earth Sea but that's because people said it was bad... Maybe the trouble is that Ghibli is just one talented guy making movies and other not so talented people trying to keep up. The non-Miyazaki movies I've seen have been good, but just not as stellar as his movies. (Well, it varies. Grave of the Fireflies is very good for example.)

    It would suck if they were to close down though.

    And Ponyo was a great movie btw. I found it pretty awesome how it was a movie for very young kids and I still enjoyed it.
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    Like Hartsong says, this really does sound like a load of bull. There are plently of studios in Japan that never had the success Ghibli had and are still making movies, sometimes collaborating with each other. The whole "if this movie doesn't do good in US box office, we're closing down" just sounds... unconvincing. As if there's a different motif behind those words. Its weird that he would say that when at first he didn't even like the idea of Disney importing studio ghibli films.

    Maybe the trouble is that Ghibli is just one talented guy making movies and other not so talented people trying to keep up
    Wrong. Miyazaki is Not the only talented person in Studio Ghibli. I think if we're going to talk specifically about the movies he wrote, than yeah ignore everyone else, but if you're talking about the studio as a whole, you can't ignore Isao Takahata (miyazaki was the fantasy guy, he was the guy bringing in more realism in the movies... he directed grave of the fireflies), and you can't ignore what the team as a whole, contributed to studio ghibli movies. Miyazaki did not paint those magnificent backgrounds in his movies, did not draw every animation frame etc. In fact I don't think he himself would take all the credits, there's a documentary of them working on Princess Mononoke showing he depends on his team to give their opinions and what they think would work best for the film. He did not write the scores either, I don't think the movies would have been half as good without Joe Hisaishi's talents. There have also been plenty of animators who worked on Ghibli movies who went on to direct great anime movies/shows themselves (Takashi Nakamura for ex)

    And Earthsea was really not that bad, you guys are overreacting.

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  26. #22
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    No. Sorry. I was over generalizing. And speaking of directors specifically. But the fact remains that it's Miyazakis movies that bring in the most of the money... And there isn't really an obvious heir to carry on the tradition as far as I've seen at least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobbA View Post
    No. Sorry. I was over generalizing. And speaking of directors specifically. But the fact remains that it's Miyazakis movies that bring in the most of the money... And there isn't really an obvious heir to carry on the tradition as far as I've seen at least.
    Sounds a bit like the directionless slump Disney went through right after Disney died... Sometimes the Guy with the Vision is the glue that holds a studio together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    Well Miyazaki can't run the show forever. I do know he and his son had difference of opinions. For example, wonder how many of you know about the EarthSea anime produced?
    Not only saw it, I actually bought it... but not in that order, obviously...
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    Disney was a (anti-semite) businessman, kudos to him for establishing a home for amazing animators, but he is not at all the creative force behind those movies. He didn't even create Mickey. Comparing him to Miyazaki is not really fitting imo, and Disney (the company) continued to do fine for years after his death.

    tobba, i see your point then I think though once he fully leaves, studio ghibli shouldn't try to replace him, they should go on a new direction. I think that's why his son failed, because he and the studio pushing him to do Earthsea, were trying to be too much like his father instead of doing his own thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCorsair View Post
    Disney has botched the showing of many of the Miyazaki title in the US and the Dubbing and voice actor choices have been sub par.
    CC
    Untrue. When titles like Princess Mononoke came out, the reviews and fans alike were extremely positive about the dub. Only the old timers or the snobby anime fans who refuse to open their eyes about dubbing said otherwise. Other titles had voice actors like Patrick Stewart, Tress MacNeille and many others. The only argument I remember occurring was the release dates and possible edits.

    That's the whole sub vs dub argument that annoys me as an excuse now. I used to try the arguments when you get into the "hardcore anime phase" but they're so bunk now. Now when anime was brought here in earlier phases, yeah there were some pretty horrible dubs. The thing was dubs still outsold subtitles no matter the argument the sub fans made. Now with DVD allowing multiple languages it became moot.

    For one, most people can't even understand Japanese to begin with. While Japan has a different rhythmic pattern in their speech that doesn't always equate to "better" but more appealing to the ears. Yes, this was done in their native language and there will be cultural references that will be lost, but that happens with any exported animation.

    Often fans would compare the original to the dub, pull the translations off the table and just try to make the judgment. You'll often hear the same typecast voices in Japanese anime. Not only that, it should be about whether or not the voice fits the CHARACTER, not if the voice is as good or sounds like the original Japanese voice actor.

    One other thing that happens is if you have a longer series obviously the dub gets better. That goes for any show though. For example early on with Ranma 1/2 the evolution of the voice acting is on par with the Simpsons (the early voice acting for Simpsons sounds pretty horrible now) voice acting.

    And yes, sometimes the dub is better, and it may depend which I heard first. If I was watching it subbed first, I tend to stick with the subs. But in cases like Ergo Proxy and Karas, I preferred the dub even though I had both available to me. I really liked the personality the English voice actors had put into the characters.

    The other thing is sometimes a nice rhythmic speech pattern can backfire. I remember falling asleep in more serious anime because it was too soft and nice sounding.
    Last edited by Arshes Nei; August 25th, 2010 at 11:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zwarrior View Post
    Disney was a (anti-semite) businessman, kudos to him for establishing a home for amazing animators, but he is not at all the creative force behind those movies. He didn't even create Mickey. Comparing him to Miyazaki is not really fitting imo, and Disney (the company) continued to do fine for years after his death.
    Really? Then the books I've read must be all wrong... I've always understood Disney was the one pushing to make full-length animated features at a time when they didn't exist, and practically went bankrupt doing Snow White because of being a perfectionist... And got in financial trouble again over Fantasia, another experimental effort... (and on other movies too, if I recall.) Anyway, the accounts I've heard of him make him out to be a meddling perfectionist who was always getting in the way and having definite opinions on what should or shouldn't be done, for better or worse.

    I wouldn't class Disney as being anywhere near as creative as Miyazaki, but he seems to have been almost as much of a perfectionist, and that tends to show. At any rate, he had definite ideas about the company, so they had direction. There seems to be a lack of focus in the immediate post-Disney years where they weren't sure what direction to go in, and then a long hiatus without many major animated features until the comeback with Beauty and the Beast etc. In the interim there were things like "Tron"... (and a lot of live-action movies and TV shows - those did pretty well, as far as I know.) I can't help thinking Studio Ghibli might be looking at a similar "confused" period now, I don't know...

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    Yes I totally agree with what you said there Arshes I used to hate watching dubs because I like listening to the japanese (especially with Ghost in the Shell, SAC) but after watching Nausicaa dubbed I totally changed my mind, I think that because they used experienced actors and took the dubbing seriously.

    I don't want Ghibli to go under, if it is due to pirating then that's a huge wake up call and like you said if anime fans who demand free episodes understand the link between what they're doing and the downfall of the media they love something can be worked out...what about making downloads more available at a cheap price? If instant availability is the issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenGwenevere View Post
    Anyway, the accounts I've heard of him make him out to be a meddling perfectionist who was always getting in the way and having definite opinions on what should or shouldn't be done, for better or worse.
    That, sounds like...

    Studio Ghibli in Trouble

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel Intheuk View Post
    I don't want Ghibli to go under, if it is due to pirating then that's a huge wake up call and like you said if anime fans who demand free episodes understand the link between what they're doing and the downfall of the media they love something can be worked out...what about making downloads more available at a cheap price? If instant availability is the issue.
    I think this is again due to Old time business men and a changing model. One good example of a problem was when ADV way overpaid for the rights of Evangelion. It gave Japan the idea and well arrogance that all anime should be bought at that price. Would you start licensing shows for cheaper, when you started getting bigger amounts of money?

    In addition, ADV's flub in this was that anime's stronghold isn't so much the movie themselves but the character goods. You think commercialization is bad here, try Japan.

    Again the problem is while we definitely have certain price expectations for product in the US it's not the same for Japan. A Miyazaki movie fetches and costs bout 80 dollars to purchase in Japan. We pay what, 20? (by the way, that was AFTER the price drop because of Disney distribution).

    Many businessmen (not necessarily the animators, but more like the upper echelon like CEOs etc) were very against any idea of making anime more cost effective and this made working with them very difficult.

    When the economy tanked, they did see a market for anime and manga to be exported. That's why for a time about every company had an anime division.

    Anime is extremely saturated in the US now. Downloads will work if Japan understands the US business model and I would think models of other countries and their view of purchasing entertainment. Right now the two styles conflict.

    On a funny note, Avatar the Last Airbender the producers of the show originally shopped the idea to Japan to anime, but the studios in their arrogance wanted nothing to do with them. Wonder if they're kicking themselves now due to the success of the show. It certainly opened doors for the Korean company that took up the offer.

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